George Hirst

[General Smuts]

We done em dirty tbqh. Unless he stays at OHL for the foreseeable.

[davieG]

Football's been unethical since it began, we've players being severely restricted in payment and contract terms which has resulted in richer clubs bribing players with brown envelope payments, managers taking backhanders to name bu two.

Sadly fans have no control or real influence over anything football related other than to withdraw our custom which is difficult to get everyone to do for it to make any impact.

[coolhandfox]

25 minutes ago, davieG said:

Football's been unethical since it began, we've players being severely restricted in payment and contract terms which has resulted in richer clubs bribing players with brown envelope payments, managers taking backhanders to name bu two.

Sadly fans have no control or real influence over anything football related other than to withdraw our custom which is difficult to get everyone to do for it to make any impact.

I don't think fan can do anything, as fan coming thought the turnstile are less important due to TV money.

 

For me we need strong ethical governing bodies rather than morally corrupt FIFA and the toothless FA.

[davieG]

1 minute ago, coolhandfox said:

I don't think fan can do anything, as fan coming thought the turnstile are less important due to TV money.

 

For me we need strong ethical governing bodies rather than morally corrupt FIFA and the toothless FA.

FIFA have made the governing bodies weaker the FA has little or no influence. The only way FIFA  can be changed is from a united approach from the governing bodies and many of them are just as corrupt or kept onside by favourable attention from FIFA.

[Jimmy]

4 hours ago, General Smuts said:

We done em dirty tbqh. Unless he stays at OHL for the foreseeable.

he'll be there for a season then we will buy him next summer

[st albans fox]

Presuming we buy him for a smaller fee than should have been paid to sheff wed, would the Vatman have a case against us because sheff wed have missed out on a big chunk of income that would have attracted vat ???

[chicagofox]

54 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Presuming we buy him for a smaller fee than should have been paid to sheff wed, would the Vatman have a case against us because sheff wed have missed out on a big chunk of income that would have attracted vat ???

No.

[st albans fox]

8 minutes ago, chicagofox said:

No.

Ok - would he be a bit miffed then ????

[crisp packet]

Surely , this is why King Power Brought them (OHL) to use loop holes like this? 

 

Get used to it ? personally like to see a lot more follow..

 

We are still playing catch up , Man U man c Chelsea even Watford been doing it years ..

[chicagofox]

11 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Ok - would he be a bit miffed then ????

Probably wouldn't give a toss.

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, crisp packet said:

Surely , this is why King Power Brought them (OHL) to use loop holes like this? 

 

Get used to it ? personally like to see a lot more follow..

 

We are still playing catch up , Man U man c Chelsea even Watford been doing it years ..

 

I believe another benefit to having a Belgium club closely linked is their regulations are a lot more lax about work permits. IIRC in Belgium they can sign anyone without discrimination of their nationality so we might start to see them bringing in non EU players who wouldn't get a work permit to play in the UK. 

 

We might see plenty of teenage Africans and South Americans and get nationalised after five years and we could then get them here. It's one of the reasons Portuguese team are a conveyor belt of African and South American talent as they have similar laws.

[gurru991]

3 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

I believe another benefit to having a Belgium club closely linked is their regulations are a lot more lax about work permits. IIRC in Belgium they can sign anyone without discrimination of their nationality so we might start to see them bringing in non EU players who wouldn't get a work permit to play in the UK. 

 

We might see plenty of teenage Africans and South Americans and get nationalised after five years and we could then get them here. It's one of the reasons Portuguese team are a conveyor belt of African and South American talent as they have similar laws.

There are quite a few advantages to having a sister club in Belgium & the work visa issue is definitely one. Being able to send our young players there & knowing they will get treated well by a friendly to Leicester manager is huge. I'm sure all the other Prem teams would like to be in a similar position. I doubt very much that any other Championship teams will let their young players contracts expire again.

[moore_94]

7 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

I believe another benefit to having a Belgium club closely linked is their regulations are a lot more lax about work permits. IIRC in Belgium they can sign anyone without discrimination of their nationality so we might start to see them bringing in non EU players who wouldn't get a work permit to play in the UK. 

 

We might see plenty of teenage Africans and South Americans and get nationalised after five years and we could then get them here. It's one of the reasons Portuguese team are a conveyor belt of African and South American talent as they have similar laws.

Would explain why that Kamal Sowah lad was signed and then immediately sent on a season and a half long loan

[mozartfox]

9 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

I believe another benefit to having a Belgium club closely linked is their regulations are a lot more lax about work permits. IIRC in Belgium they can sign anyone without discrimination of their nationality so we might start to see them bringing in non EU players who wouldn't get a work permit to play in the UK. 

 

We might see plenty of teenage Africans and South Americans and get nationalised after five years and we could then get them here. It's one of the reasons Portuguese team are a conveyor belt of African and South American talent as they have similar laws.

I think we should acquire a German lower league Club as Merkel is very lax about issuing Visas.  Just get across the Austro/Germany Border and 'Angela is your Aunty',.

[Foxy-Lady]

22 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Kudos to you for your conviction but you don't actually know that we have done anything dodgy here.... If he gets shipped over for a minimal fee in Jan of next summer then this will be worth revisiting but for now isn't it morally wrong in its own right to condemn people based on an assumption?

Fair point....but I think its fairly clear that a loophole is being exploited (or soon will be!) so you can either voice your opinions/concerns at the time or at a later date when the reality happens. Personally, im just expressing my view based on what I believe is the likely scenario but I do take your point on condemnation based on assumption

 

Interesting post earlier likening the Hirst transfer to the Bosman scenario of several years ago in that it may prove to be a watershed moment in transfer activity/regulation and I suspect that when the potential reality of this loophole dawns on the FA/PL, they will seek to take action to close the loophole if only to protect the interests of the smaller/poorer clubs who cannot afford to develop players and then lose them without compensation to foreign clubs owned by PL clubs.

At that point, perhaps you and I can revisit this discussion...?.

 

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, Foxy-Lady said:

Fair point....but I think its fairly clear that a loophole is being exploited (or soon will be!) so you can either voice your opinions/concerns at the time or at a later date when the reality happens. Personally, im just expressing my view based on what I believe is the likely scenario but I do take your point on condemnation based on assumption

 

Interesting post earlier likening the Hirst transfer to the Bosman scenario of several years ago in that it may prove to be a watershed moment in transfer activity/regulation and I suspect that when the potential reality of this loophole dawns on the FA/PL, they will seek to take action to close the loophole if only to protect the interests of the smaller/poorer clubs who cannot afford to develop players and then lose them without compensation to foreign clubs owned by PL clubs.

At that point, perhaps you and I can revisit this discussion...?.

 

Haha, good one.

[davieG]

4 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Fair point....but I think its fairly clear that a loophole is being exploited (or soon will be!) so you can either voice your opinions/concerns at the time or at a later date when the reality happens. Personally, im just expressing my view based on what I believe is the likely scenario but I do take your point on condemnation based on assumption

 

Interesting post earlier likening the Hirst transfer to the Bosman scenario of several years ago in that it may prove to be a watershed moment in transfer activity/regulation and I suspect that when the potential reality of this loophole dawns on the FA/PL, they will seek to take action to close the loophole if only to protect the interests of the smaller/poorer clubs who cannot afford to develop players and then lose them without compensation to foreign clubs owned by PL clubs.

At that point, perhaps you and I can revisit this discussion...?.

 

I doubt the PL will do anything as it benefits their members, if anyone is going to react it'll be the EFL whose members are and are likely to suffer.

Not too sure where the PFA would fit in as Hirst is benefiting from this but it could lead to more players being exploited/enticed away from EFL clubs by PL clubs only to disappear in the ether abroad.

[Foxy-Lady]

19 hours ago, gurru991 said:

I believe that this is a FIFA reg that governs compensation & realistically any European club could have recognized the opportunity to turn a profit on Hirst. SWFC assumed they would get at least what Leicester had offered (2 mil) in compensation & wanted to fvck Hirst over just little bit more. Now the lad will get to play first team football for a decent manager & OH Leuven will get the opportunity to make money down the road. All perfectly legal & above board ! Sheffield didn't see all the options and lost out because of that.

Good points.  Only issue I have is that while ANY European club could have bought him for minimal compensation, there area very few European clubs who are owned by PL owners who could then in turn have loaned/sold him on to sister clubs in England owned by same owners.  This is the loophole that concerns me and needs to be addressed to stop bigger clubs exploiting smaller clubs.

 

Consider this....player development and sell on revenues are a lifeblood to smaller clubs in the English lower leagues. If all PL clubs follow the example of buying sister clubs in Europe (eg  LCFC, Chelsea, Man City, Watford, Man Utd) to avoid paying large compensation fees, then this type of transfer activity could escalate very quickly. At that point, revenue streams for lower league clubs from their academy player development transfers would fall dramatically and would be the ruination of many clubs.

Or, alternatively, they will simply close their academies like Huddersfield, Brentford & Wigan did last season...

Neither of those potential scenarios is a good one for young English players in this country

 

I genuinely don't like the implications this type of transfer activity could have for football in this country beyond the PL.....and worth remembering that until 4 seasons ago, we were ONCE one of those clubs.

[lcfc sheff]

Dog eat dog world

[gurru991]

4 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Good points.  Only issue I have is that while ANY European club could have bought him for minimal compensation, there area very few European clubs who are owned by PL owners who could then in turn have loaned/sold him on to sister clubs in England owned by same owners.  This is the loophole that concerns me and needs to be addressed to stop bigger clubs exploiting smaller clubs.

 

Consider this....player development and sell on revenues are a lifeblood to smaller clubs in the English lower leagues. If all PL clubs follow the example of buying sister clubs in Europe (eg  LCFC, Chelsea, Man City, Watford, Man Utd) to avoid paying large compensation fees, then this type of transfer activity could escalate very quickly. At that point, revenue streams for lower league clubs from their academy player development transfers would fall dramatically and would be the ruination of many clubs.

Or, alternatively, they will simply close their academies like Huddersfield, Brentford & Wigan did last season...

Neither of those potential scenarios is a good one for young English players in this country

 

I genuinely don't like the implications this type of transfer activity could have for football in this country beyond the PL.....and worth remembering that until 4 seasons ago, we were ONCE one of those clubs.

I agree 100% with you about sell on revenues being the life blood of lower clubs but part of the problem is with this particular deal is that SWFC turned down 2 mil from City last year & then intentionally let the contract run down. While doing that they ostracized the player from competitive football, intentionally hurting the players development. If nothing else this forces the club to move the unhappy player on & stops vindictive clubs like Sheffield from playing games with a young mans career. The loophole will force clubs to do the right thing.

[Foxy-Lady]

2 hours ago, gurru991 said:

I agree 100% with you about sell on revenues being the life blood of lower clubs but part of the problem is with this particular deal is that SWFC turned down 2 mil from City last year & then intentionally let the contract run down. While doing that they ostracized the player from competitive football, intentionally hurting the players development. If nothing else this forces the club to move the unhappy player on & stops vindictive clubs like Sheffield from playing games with a young mans career. The loophole will force clubs to do the right thing.

Agree 100% on all points. 

SWFC certainly don't deserve too much sympathy on this occasion due to their own behaviour and the manner in which they treated George Hirst but the more real concern going forward is that this method of transfer may become standard practice for other bigger clubs to follow to maximise profits at the expense of lower league clubs who are reliant on the transfer revenues from player development to fund their academies and longer term futures

SWFC have made a rod for their own back here......but that may not be the case in future for other clubs who simply see their expensively developed talent simply cheery-picked with minimal financial compensation.

[gurru991]

1 hour ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Agree 100% on all points. 

SWFC certainly don't deserve too much sympathy on this occasion due to their own behaviour and the manner in which they treated George Hirst but the more real concern going forward is that this method of transfer may become standard practice for other bigger clubs to follow to maximise profits at the expense of lower league clubs who are reliant on the transfer revenues from player development to fund their academies and longer term futures

SWFC have made a rod for their own back here......but that may not be the case in future for other clubs who simply see their expensively developed talent simply cheery-picked with minimal financial compensation.

Again I agree but knowledge is power & now every club knows the loophole exists. The message is to not let your players contracts expire, sell them when you can.

If i was DOF at a European club with no Premier league affiliations I would be on the lookout for these situations purely as a profit opportunity. English clubs just need to be aware.

Edited 28 June 2018 by gurru991

[moore_94]

As expected, most of the comments on it are slating him calling him a snake etc

[Brainy]

29 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

calling him a snake etc

 

Will fit in well here then

[ealingfox]

Some hilarious tears in reply to that tweet