Mohamed Elneny

[Babylon]

27 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

You may be better educated on Elneny's abilities better than me and you obviously have studied him closely and have an informed opinion.

 

I'm judging him as a player who is 26 so is statistically likely to be around his peak but surplus to requirements at Arsenal who many would have the 6th best team in the PL. He will cost a good sized fee and in all likelihood will not be an upgrade on what we have here already. Our resources should be put to better use.

 

As for Ward I'm looking for VFM, Ward was 25 and cost £12.6m. A couple of weeks later Schmeichel signed a five year contract so Ward will likely be the most expensive reserve GK in the history of football. The Huddersfield fans who are the only team who have seen him play a run of games generally thought he wasn't good enough for the PL and arguably their weakest position when they got promoted. 

 

Like Ghezzal another big money signing in their mid 20's who aren't good enough for an automatic choice in our first team and are too old to be considered for their potential. You may be happy blowing £40m on players like this but I'm not. 

Saints signed Gunn for £13.5m and he's played one game. In fact their third choice keeper cost £10m. Liverpool spent £9m on Mingolet 5 years ago. Bravo was about £20m. That's off the top of my head. 

 

It was a lot but that's the way it's going I'm afraid. 

Edited 4 January 2019 by Babylon

[Nick]

What do people reckon the price might be?

[Gerard]

2 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Just being hard and depressingly honest, if "not good enough to be a regular on a top six club" is a disqualifier for transfer targets, we're going to have a very short list of players we realistically have a shot at. 

 

I certainly wouldn't discount every player who fit that criteria.

 

We're in a great position as a club that there are probably are less than 20 clubs in world football that are a step up from us. We can attract almost any player in the world outside a few hundred. Couple that with us being cash rich and being a comfortable PL club who are quite comfortable about not fearing relegation I feel our financial resources would be better used buying some of the better players in world football who are at inferior clubs who will be tempted to sell their prize assets for good money. 

 

I love the model of signing players who are young with great potential and giving them a platform here. Players like Pereira and Maddison who are in their early 20's and with bags of potential and at selling clubs. If we're ever going to progress it will be this model that takes us there and not spending significant money on mediocrity.

 

[Deeg67]

2 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

I certainly wouldn't discount every player who fit that criteria.

 

We're in a great position as a club that there are probably are less than 20 clubs in world football that are a step up from us. We can attract almost any player in the world outside a few hundred. Couple that with us being cash rich and being a comfortable PL club who are quite comfortable about not fearing relegation I feel our financial resources would be better used buying some of the better players in world football who are at inferior clubs who will be tempted to sell their prize assets for good money. 

 

I love the model of signing players who are young with great potential and giving them a platform here. Players like Pereira and Maddison who are in their early 20's and with bags of potential and at selling clubs. If we're ever going to progress it will be this model that takes us there and not spending significant money on mediocrity.

 

That all makes decent sense, but those kinds of deals are much more feasible in the summer than in January.  And realistically we're in pretty desperate need of a MF, especially one with some skill as a facilitator and ability to play the ball forward.  I'm not convinced there's a better target than Elneny who might be available now.

[Gerard]

5 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Saints signed Gunn for £13.5m and he's played one game. In fact their third choice keeper cost £10m. Liverpool spent £9m on Mingolet 5 years ago. Bravo was about £20m. That's off the top of my head. 

 

It was a lot but that's the way it's going I'm afraid. 

 

Gunn was 21 and signed to be a future No1. 

Bravo was signed to be a No1 and soon lost his place.

Mingolet was signed as a No1 and cost less than Ward.

 

Ward was signed as a No2, Schmeichel got a new five year contract soon after. I would have no problem if we signed a young GK with great potential to play some cup games and put pressure on Schmeichel in the next couple of years but we signed a 25 yo who was Liverpool's 4th choice and in the only full season he had ever performed at below average level in the Championship. 

 

 

[Babylon]

5 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

I certainly wouldn't discount every player who fit that criteria.

 

We're in a great position as a club that there are probably are less than 20 clubs in world football that are a step up from us. We can attract almost any player in the world outside a few hundred. Couple that with us being cash rich and being a comfortable PL club who are quite comfortable about not fearing relegation I feel our financial resources would be better used buying some of the better players in world football who are at inferior clubs who will be tempted to sell their prize assets for good money. 

 

I love the model of signing players who are young with great potential and giving them a platform here. Players like Pereira and Maddison who are in their early 20's and with bags of potential and at selling clubs. If we're ever going to progress it will be this model that takes us there and not spending significant money on mediocrity.

 

Elneny is only a year older than Ricardo, 26 is nothing really with plenty of time to actually add value to the player as well. If we was 29 then fair enough, it's a total waste because you never see any of that cash again. But if this is a £10m is deal, that's not bad value in this day and age when any old chump from the championship costs that now. 

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

Gunn was 21 and signed to be a future No1. 

Bravo was signed to be a No1 and soon lost his place.

Mingolet was signed as a No1 and cost less than Ward.

 

Ward was signed as a No2, Schmeichel got a new five year contract soon after. I would have no problem if we signed a young GK with great potential to play some cup games and put pressure on Schmeichel in the next couple of years but we signed a 25 yo who was Liverpool's 4th choice and in the only full season he had ever performed at below average level in the Championship. 

 

 

25 is young for a keeper, he's got 8-10 years left in him yet. You can't label Gunn as being signed to be a future no.1 but not Ward. Kasper is unlikely to be number one for another 5 years. 

 

You need to read what you wrote, the others and Gunn are all still reserve goalkeepers. Also, you heard of inflation? The market isn't what it was for keepers two years ago let alone when Mingolet signed. 

[Gerard]

4 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

That all makes decent sense, but those kinds of deals are much more feasible in the summer than in January.  And realistically we're in pretty desperate need of a MF, especially one with some skill as a facilitator and ability to play the ball forward.  I'm not convinced there's a better target than Elneny who might be available now.

 

I don't think we are desperate for a CM even if Iborra and Silva leave this month.

 

We had 17 league games left and have 31 points, we're not really desperate as we're mostly playing once a week from now on. We can play a two if we have to but even if we decide not to outside of Ndidi, Mendy and Choudhury we can still make do with Amartey, King and James. There is also Maddison, Evans and Albrighton who have played CM at some point. Whilst all those players are not ideal for different reasons that's still a feasible option of nine players and there is also the loan market. 

 

I hope we aren't going to buy Elneny as a makeweight to get us through the rest of the season. If we think he's better than what we have then fine but don't bring in much of a muchness just to bring up the numbers. Ideally I want us to get rid of players in their mid to late 20's who are not good enough to be in the top 15 players that we have and I certainly don't want us to spend good money bringing in more squad fillers who fit this criteria. 

[Md9]

I personally dont think we are as attractive as most of the league at the minute. We are in a bracket with West Ham Everton even Watford and Bournemouth where they can offer just as much wage wise as us and I think if either West Ham or Watford are interested in a player we are, most will pick them due to being around London. Until we because a regular top10 team that challenges for Europe every season. 

Signing a few young players is ok for the rest of this season but we will need a few experienced players in this league as well to help them along. We may lose a few players at the end of the season due to contracts ending etc so if this guy is any good and cheap get him in now so that he has the rest of the season to get used to every body with no pressure on him to deliver straight away if silva and Iborra go. Might not make sense what I wrote but I know what I mean sorry ?

[Deeg67]

25 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

I don't think we are desperate for a CM even if Iborra and Silva leave this month.

 

We had 17 league games left and have 31 points, we're not really desperate as we're mostly playing once a week from now on. We can play a two if we have to but even if we decide not to outside of Ndidi, Mendy and Choudhury we can still make do with Amartey, King and James. There is also Maddison, Evans and Albrighton who have played CM at some point. Whilst all those players are not ideal for different reasons that's still a feasible option of nine players and there is also the loan market. 

 

I hope we aren't going to buy Elneny as a makeweight to get us through the rest of the season. If we think he's better than what we have then fine but don't bring in much of a muchness just to bring up the numbers. Ideally I want us to get rid of players in their mid to late 20's who are not good enough to be in the top 15 players that we have and I certainly don't want us to spend good money bringing in more squad fillers who fit this criteria. 

I don't see how we can make do with Amartey - who's done for the season, almost certainly - King, who's clearly not good enough to be a PL player at this stage of his career, and the never-healthy James.

 

There's an opportunity here for 7th place and European football, which would be a great development opportunity for the youngsters and a good statement for the club.  I agree you don't mortgage the future to chase it, but I do think Elneny may be better than what we currently have at CM.  Certainly different.

[turtmcfly]

40 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

You may be better educated on Elneny's abilities better than me and you obviously have studied him closely and have an informed opinion.

 

I'm judging him as a player who is 26 so is statistically likely to be around his peak but surplus to requirements at Arsenal who many would have the 6th best team in the PL. He will cost a good sized fee and in all likelihood will not be an upgrade on what we have here already. Our resources should be put to better use.

 

As for Ward I'm looking for VFM, Ward was 25 and cost £12.6m. A couple of weeks later Schmeichel signed a five year contract so Ward will likely be the most expensive reserve GK in the history of football. The Huddersfield fans who are the only team who have seen him play a run of games generally thought he wasn't good enough for the PL and arguably their weakest position when they got promoted. 

 

Like Ghezzal another big money signing in their mid 20's who aren't good enough for an automatic choice in our first team and are too old to be considered for their potential. You may be happy blowing £40m on players like this but I'm not. 

 

Where does this come from? Given you admit you don't know the player it can only assume it's based on him not being required at the one of most dysfunctional clubs in the league. You are taking a shot in the dark as to how that 'maps' on to what we have. He might be 26, but that's still a whole contract term younger than one of our 'bit part' players.

 

Using a reserve keeper as an example is fairly irrelevant IMO. In no other position do you hope a player doesn't get game time. But the though of Kasper getting injured in February doesn't worry me as much as it would if Ward weren't here. I'd like to know who you'd have instead as our insurance policy.

 

Ghezzal's fee was around 10 million, Your definition of big money isn't therefore the same as mine, nor is the amount you feel guarantees us a player who's an automatic first team choice.

[Haywood_6]

1 hour ago, Swan Lesta said:

What do people reckon the price might be?

Around 15 million 

[siraaj_lcfc]

1 hour ago, The_77 said:

He’s played in the Champions League, and helped Egypt qualify for a little tournament called the World Cup for the first time in 28 years. Oh yeah, he also played in the World Cup. 

So did Ahmed Musa  And actually did quite well surprisingly

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

We're in a great position as a club that there are probably are less than 20 clubs in world football that are a step up from us. We can attract almost any player in the world outside a few hundred. Couple that with us being cash rich and being a comfortable PL club who are quite comfortable about not fearing relegation I feel our financial resources would be better used buying some of the better players in world football who are at inferior clubs who will be tempted to sell their prize assets for good money.

 

I still think a lot of Leicester fans think we are far more attractive to players across Europe than we are, money isn't everything!

Edited 4 January 2019 by coolhandfox

[The_77]

38 minutes ago, siraaj_lcfc said:

So did Ahmed Musa  And actually did quite well surprisingly

Legend 

[Gerard]

31 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I still think a lot of Leicester fans think we are far more attractive to players across Europe than we are, money isn't everything!

 

We're nobody's first choice but we're an attractive club to those who can't get an elite club. 

 

There's a reason why we've got players like Slimani, Silva and Pereira to join us from much bigger clubs than us historically like Sporting Lisbon and Porto. If a one of the European elite aren't asking for your services then we're as attractive as any club in the world. 

[Realist Guy In The Room]

2 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

What do people reckon the price might be?

Right.

[Bluearmyfox28]

13 hours ago, Beechey said:

You're asserting he only does simple, short passes? Even when compared to Iborra who most proclaim as our best CM passer, he exceeds him in most everything per 90'.

Neither got much game-time last season, but Elneny was much more productive with his time (about 50% of that which Iborra played).

The difference between our CM's and Elneny is that Elneny actually moves forwards with the play, including into the box. Something none of our CM's currently do. So even from the deep role he often played at Arsenal, he created more than our most creative CM, and substantially so.

 

And this, coming from someone who really likes Iborra.

In fairness to both however, Elneny played for Arsenal, Iborra for a lackluster Leicester team.

 

As much as I’m not disagreeing with you, I think it’s very hard to compare stats of the two considering the clubs they play for.

 

Arsenal are one of the best attacking teams in the country so naturally Elneny is going to create more due to the amount of possession they have & the way teams play against them. 

 

I personally want to keep Iborra as I rate him. I would also be up for a move for Elneny as he is an upgrade on the majority we have in terms of being in possession. It’s a shame we can’t have them both & get rid of Silva, James, King.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

 

We're nobody's first choice but we're an attractive club to those who can't get an elite club. 

 

There's a reason why we've got players like Slimani, Silva and Pereira to join us from much bigger clubs than us historically like Sporting Lisbon and Porto. If a one of the European elite aren't asking for your services then we're as attractive as any club in the world. 

Wages.

 

That's why they came here after earning peanuts in Portugal they got a chance of one great big contract before they retired and they jumped at it with open pockets. We're less attractive than Everton though.

[Gerard]

3 minutes ago, FIF said:

Wages.

 

That's why they came here after earning peanuts in Portugal they got a chance of one great big contract before they retired and they jumped at it with open pockets. We're less attractive than Everton though.

[hackneyfox]

Was that needed, everyone has been fairly gentle with you.

Claiming that Ricardo is much younger than Elneny and then naming players who aren't fit or even squad members.

[Gerard]

9 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

Was that needed, everyone has been fairly gentle with you.

Claiming that Ricardo is much younger than Elneny and then naming players who aren't fit or even squad members.

 

I thought it went without saying that players moved to the PL for the money.

 

Also you can't compare the Ricardo signing to Elneny. Whilst admittedly Ricardo is only 15 months younger than Elneny our player had three previous outstanding seasons in Nice and Porto and was one of the best players in their teams and was linked with bigger clubs than ours. Elneny on the other hand has failed to make an impact at Arsenal over the same period of time and now they want to get rid of him.

 

I'm not saying he's a bad player but unless he's an upgrade on what we have it's a pointless signing and all things point to that he is no better than what we have. Buy cheap, buy twice and he has Ghezzal written all over him. A significant amount of money but comes here as a 26 yo with little room for potential improvement and no better than what we currently have. 

[Fox85]

57 minutes ago, FIF said:

Wages.

 

That's why they came here after earning peanuts in Portugal they got a chance of one great big contract before they retired and they jumped at it with open pockets. We're less attractive than Everton though.

I wouldn't say we are less attractive than Everton at all.

If anything it be hard to call.

 

[turtmcfly]

52 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

I thought it went without saying that players moved to the PL for the money.

 

Also you can't compare the Ricardo signing to Elneny. Whilst admittedly Ricardo is only 15 months younger than Elneny our player had three previous outstanding seasons in Nice and Porto and was one of the best players in their teams and was linked with bigger clubs than ours. Elneny on the other hand has failed to make an impact at Arsenal over the same period of time and now they want to get rid of him.

 

I'm not saying he's a bad player but unless he's an upgrade on what we have it's a pointless signing and all things point to that he is no better than what we have. Buy cheap, buy twice and he has Ghezzal written all over him. A significant amount of money but comes here as a 26 yo with little room for potential improvement and no better than what we currently have. 

 

Thank you, Captain Unsubstantiated Guff

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

 

I thought it went without saying that players moved to the PL for the money.

 

Also you can't compare the Ricardo signing to Elneny. Whilst admittedly Ricardo is only 15 months younger than Elneny our player had three previous outstanding seasons in Nice and Porto and was one of the best players in their teams and was linked with bigger clubs than ours. Elneny on the other hand has failed to make an impact at Arsenal over the same period of time and now they want to get rid of him.

 

I'm not saying he's a bad player but unless he's an upgrade on what we have it's a pointless signing and all things point to that he is no better than what we have. Buy cheap, buy twice and he has Ghezzal written all over him. A significant amount of money but comes here as a 26 yo with little room for potential improvement and no better than what we currently have. 

I would think they point to him being no better than what Arsenal have. Him not being good enough to displace the likes of Ozil, Ramsey, Xkaha and Torreira doesn't mean he's no better than Iborra, Choudhury and James.