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[Innovindil]

34 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

That's a bit patronizing, tbh.

 

And besides, that just reinforces my argument - in career terms, I got away with what might have been considered a 'poor choice' - when I was ready to settle down, I was able. I doubt it would be as easy to join the rat race at forty now.

 

 

There you go - nobody stabbed you at work back in my day.

Perhaps, but in my experience of people being "behind", it falls on their own shoulders. 

 

The good ol' days 

[Buce]

10 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Pigs also display pretty remarkable mental abilities. A lot of humans make bacon out of them all the same.

 

Believe me, I'm with you on the practice being utterly barbarous - I just can't think of a way of decrying it however without accurate accusations of hypocrisy being levelled.

 

Yeah, I get it.

 

Nobody can level it at me, though.

[Buce]

10 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Perhaps, but in my experience of people being "behind", it falls on their own shoulders. 

 

The good ol' days 

 

You'll never catch me saying that.

 

Life was just less complicated.

[WigstonWanderer]

4 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Trust me, mate, my generation had it easy compared to young people today.

 

I chose not to have a career because I wanted to travel instead, but any time I needed to earn some money I could be working the same day I started looking. None of this CV lark, no references, just 'giz a job', 'sure, when can you start?'. My heart bled for the lad in the Depression thread, jumping through hoops to get a job, and all to no avail. And as @David Guiza said, you could buy a house on a working man's wage (I say 'man' deliberately, women could afford to stay at home and run the home and still manage quite well on her husband's wage).

Certainly agree about the modern CV requirements and hoops to jump through to get a job. I couldn’t cope with that now I’m sure. Having said that younger people have grown up with it and are probably more comfortable with it all. Seems like a lot of bureaucratic box ticking nonsense to me though and probably just leads to recruiting the best bullshitters.

Edited 2 July 2019 by WigstonWanderer

[Babylon]

4 hours ago, Innovindil said:

My brother works 37 hour weeks on minimum wage and his wife works part time, also on minimum wage, have a son and have a mortgage on a 2 bed house. Living quite comfortably. 

 

My other brother is a single parent, living solely on what is given to him by the government, he won't be having thousands in the bank anytime soon, but he gets on far better than someone who doesn't have to lift a finger (but can) should, in my opinion. 

 

My dad 30 years ago could barely afford to feed his kids (sometimes couldn't!). 

 

I'm 30, and while me and my missus both work full time, we've afforded a house far bigger than we could possibly need, with the full intention of having it paid off before we hit 40.

 

This is why I struggle to understand. Are my family a bunch of lucky leprechauns? I doubt it. 

Nope... never earned more than the average wage and the mrs earns just above minimum. Had our house paid off before I was 35, still went on holidays, still did everything my mates did, both paid for cars out right and not in any  debt. 

 

Only thing I can point out is that I was taught about saving and paying my way at a young age. If I wanted anything I had to work for it and if I got money for birthdays or christmas I always put money aside in a bank account. I've been given nothing in life other than a good financial education from when I was young. I enjoyed saving and always set targets to reach, that enabled me to put down a decent deposit, which meant lower repayments, which meant I could overpay and get rid of the lot. 

 

Most people I know are financially illiterate. 

[WigstonWanderer]

15 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Nope... never earned more than the average wage and the mrs earns just above minimum. Had our house paid off before I was 35, still went on holidays, still did everything my mates did, both paid for cars out right and not in any  debt. 

 

Only thing I can point out is that I was taught about saving and paying my way at a young age. If I wanted anything I had to work for it and if I got money for birthdays or christmas I always put money aside in a bank account. I've been given nothing in life other than a good financial education from when I was young. I enjoyed saving and always set targets to reach, that enabled me to put down a decent deposit, which meant lower repayments, which meant I could overpay and get rid of the lot. 

 

Most people I know are financially illiterate. 

A lot of people don’t seem to understand that when considering finances there are 2 sides to the equation. It isn’t just how much you earn but how much you spend. I was always broke up to about the age of 40 when I discovered how to budget and cut out unnecessary expenditure. Pretty obvious really but surprising how many people just buy whatever they want before considering how they’ll pay for it.

 

 

[David Guiza]

36 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Nope... never earned more than the average wage and the mrs earns just above minimum. Had our house paid off before I was 35, still went on holidays, still did everything my mates did, both paid for cars out right and not in any  debt. 

 

Only thing I can point out is that I was taught about saving and paying my way at a young age. If I wanted anything I had to work for it and if I got money for birthdays or christmas I always put money aside in a bank account. I've been given nothing in life other than a good financial education from when I was young. I enjoyed saving and always set targets to reach, that enabled me to put down a decent deposit, which meant lower repayments, which meant I could overpay and get rid of the lot. 

 

Most people I know are financially illiterate. 

I can only speak for myself and those I know around my age bracket, but if you think the statistics just boil down to financial illiteracy then you are wide of the mark. 

 

I can't imagine that older generations are any more financially educated than the generations that have followed. They didn't work any harder than the current crop either. 

 

To do what you refer to above nowadays by the age of 35 would require about £160,000+ just for an average house in a reasonable area and cars. Not factoring in living costs, hobbies etc. That's some going. Particularly if you factor in University also, that's approximately £11,500 per annum in savings post university just for the house and car. 

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, David Guiza said:

I can only speak for myself and those I know around my age bracket, but if you think the statistics just boil down to financial illiteracy then you are wide of the mark. 

 

I can't imagine that older generations are any more financially educated than the generations that have followed. They didn't work any harder than the current crop either. 

 

To do what you refer to above nowadays by the age of 35 would require about £160,000+ just for an average house in a reasonable area and cars. Not factoring in living costs, hobbies etc. That's some going. Particularly if you factor in University also, that's approximately £11,500 per annum in savings post university just for the house and car. 

I’m 40, I’m not far off everything you mentioned except no uni loan to pay off... which is paid off in such small amounts it’s likely to never even get paid off and doesn’t make that much difference unless earning decent sums anyway.

 

I know people earning double what I get and they have nothing and are in debt because they don’t know how to save. They don’t know how to handle the money they do have to work for them. 

 

Whether its shopping around for your insurance, getting a car that’s not so flash,  not getting the latest phone, using a code when buying online. It all adds up, if I asked my friends if they knew what an ISA was, or what interest rates you can get on savings I don’t think most would have a clue. 

 

I’ve saved over £3000 getting cash back through Quidco alone since the site started. I’ve probably saved three times that using voucher codes when buying online. I’ve had thousands back in interest moving my money into the highest interest accounts available.

 

The money I’ve saved being as financially efficient as possible took 10 years off my mortgage.

 

I know very well that peoples situations are all different and taking the decision to stay with my parents for a few extra years boosted it and I don’t expect everyone to be in my situation. But the lack of financial knowledge between the average lads I know is frightening.

 

Something as simple as paying off a credit card with savings or as quickly as possible seems to bypass people entirely. The interest rates are crippling and it’s only when you do the actual numbers for

them they realise what it’s doing to them,

 

 

 

[Stadt]

12 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I’m 40, I’m not far off everything you mentioned except no uni loan to pay off... which is paid off in such small amounts it’s likely to never even get paid off and doesn’t make that much difference unless earning decent sums anyway.

 

I know people earning double what I get and they have nothing and are in debt because they don’t know how to save. They don’t know how to handle the money they do have to work for them. 

 

Whether its shopping around for your insurance, getting a car that’s not so flash,  not getting the latest phone, using a code when buying online. It all adds up, if I asked my friends if they knew what an ISA was, or what interest rates you can get on savings I don’t think most would have a clue. 

 

I’ve saved over £3000 getting cash back through Quidco alone since the site started. I’ve probably saved three times that using voucher codes when buying online. I’ve had thousands back in interest moving my money into the highest interest accounts available.

 

The money I’ve saved being as financially efficient as possible took 10 years off my mortgage.

 

I know very well that peoples situations are all different and taking the decision to stay with my parents for a few extra years boosted it and I don’t expect everyone to be in my situation. But the lack of financial knowledge between the average lads I know is frightening.

 

Something as simple as paying off a credit card with savings or as quickly as possible seems to bypass people entirely. The interest rates are crippling and it’s only when you do the actual numbers for

them they realise what it’s doing to them,

 

 

 

To over simplify the original point, boomers (I'm not a fan of intergenerational slanging matches tbh) didn't have to be so prudent, they didn't need to make nuanced choices or save particularly large sums like younger people have to do. There's no doubt a significant proportion of people nowadays are financially illiterate but it doesn't excuse wider societal and economic issues.

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, Stadt said:

To over simplify the original point, boomers (I'm not a fan of intergenerational slanging matches tbh) didn't have to be so prudent, they didn't need to make nuanced choices or save particularly large sums like younger people have to do. There's no doubt a significant proportion of people nowadays are financially illiterate but it doesn't excuse wider societal and economic issues.

Perhaps not as much.

 

There needs to be far more help in schools and more basic financial education. Why are they teaching how how to work out the hypotenuse of a triangle, but not about interest rates and their meanings, mortgages, financial planning and the like. Perhaps it’s changed and they now do, but I bet it’s a couple of lessons and it’s just forgotten after the box is ticked.

 

People having to make the most of every penny more than ever. Yet it seems left to people like Martin Lewis to help get the message out.

[Stadt]

17 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Perhaps not as much.

 

There needs to be far more help in schools and more basic financial education. Why are they teaching how how to work out the hypotenuse of a triangle, but not about interest rates and their meanings, mortgages, financial planning and the like. Perhaps it’s changed and they now do, but I bet it’s a couple of lessons and it’s just forgotten after the box is ticked.

 

People having to make the most of every penny more than ever. Yet it seems left to people like Martin Lewis to help get the message out.

I agree that schools should teach it but I can guarantee that most kids aren't going to be arsed

[Grebfromgrebland]

For anyone still questioning the brexiteers Nazi credentials. Shame on you.

 

 

 

[Carl the Llama]

Pretty sure the Nazis don't have dibs on turning around?

[bovril]

Just now, Carl the Llama said:

Pretty sure the Nazis don't have dibs on turning around?

Famous Nazi anthem:

 

 

[Innovindil]

Shockingly poor from the brexit party MEPs tbh.

 

I would have turned up in a bollocks to the eu t-shirt. 

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

For anyone still questioning the brexiteers Nazi credentials. Shame on you.

 

 

 

Nazis could also face in different directions shocker.

[Grebfromgrebland]

7 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Nazis could also face in different directions shocker.

It's the symbolism that matters here. Or you can choose to deliberately ignore it. 

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

It's the symbolism that matters here. Or you can choose to deliberately ignore it. 

It’s childish and petulant but I think it pushing it a bit far to link it with Nazi’s because they are turned around. The outright racism of most of them does that without looking for links that aren’t there 

[The Guvnor]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Shockingly poor from the brexit party MEPs tbh.

 

I would have turned up in a bollocks to the eu t-shirt. 

Disappointing wasn't  it. Thought it was vogue to launch a few milkshakes these days.

[Grebfromgrebland]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

It’s childish and petulant but I think it pushing it a bit far to link it with Nazi’s because they are turned around. The outright racism of most of them does that without looking for links that aren’t there 

I disagree if it was any other party other than the brexit party I would not draw those parallels.

 

The brexit party is a party for white people and most racists are also brexiteers.

 

I'm not saying brexiteers are racist. I'm saying racists are brexiteers.

 

Also looking at where the funding for farage and the brexit party and their friends I'd say that it's more than a hair coincidence that they choose to turn their backs.

 

It's a dog whistle to fellow racists. 

 

Farage and Trump took advice from Steve Bannon who edited breitbart.  If you don't know what that is take a look. It's a horrible right wing hate site.  Bannon has also started writing with Boris Johnson too. They all take advice from someone who is a fascist who wants to literally destroy man kind via massive wars and start again with humanity. Think Hitler but worse.

 

These guys know exactly who they are appealing to when they turned around. 

[Col city fan]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/second-murder-inquiry-day-after-3047491.amp

 

[davieG]

Brexit Party joins cross-party alliance for voting reform
2 July 2019
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The Brexit Party has joined forces with the Lib Dems, the Greens and the SNP to call for a citizens' assembly to decide changes to the UK's voting system.

The parties have signed a declaration calling for the first-past-the-post method for Westminster elections to be replaced by a proportional system.

They say a "large group of ordinary people" should meet and hear from experts before recommending changes.

The public backed keeping the current system in a referendum in 2011.

Calls to ditch first-past-the-post method - in which the candidate who wins the most votes in each of the UK's 650 constituencies is elected - in favour of the Alternative Vote system were overwhelmingly rejected by 68% to 32%.

But supporters of voting reform have continued to campaign for change, arguing first-past-the-post fails to properly reflect the number of votes cast for smaller parties across the country - disenfranchises voters in safe seats where one party has historically dominated.

Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage became a convert to electoral reform after UKIP - which he lead for many years - only won a single seat in 2015, despite getting nearly four million votes

His new party and six others - also including Plaid Cymru, The Alliance Party of Northern Ireland and the Women's Equality Party - have now combined to form the Make Votes Matter Alliance in a fresh effort to push the issue up the political agenda.

A handful of Labour MPs - including former frontbenchers Ben Bradshaw, Jon Cruddas and Clive Lewis - have also signed up, as has Tory MP Derek Thomas.

'Evidence-based'
They have signed an agreement setting out the principles they believe should underpin an alternative system, stating that it must "ensure that seats closely match votes, with parliamentary representation at least as proportional as the Scottish Parliament".

The Scottish Parliament has used the Additional Member System - a form of proportional representation - since its inception in 1999.

Under the system, 73 MSPs are elected for individual constituencies under first-past-the-post, and a further 56 are chosen through a regional list system in which parties are allocated MSPs in proportion to their vote share. Voters get two votes each.

In an effort to build public support for a "sensible" alternative to first-past-the-post, the alliance says an "evidence-based, deliberative process" was needed - with members of the public taking the lead through citizen's assemblies based on juries.

Citizen's assemblies have been used in Ireland to address contentious issues, such as abortion, and Tory leadership candidate Rory Stewart is among those to suggest they could be a way of breaking the Brexit deadlock.

As an alternative, the alliance said a constitutional convention could be given the task - although it said it must be led by citizens and not political appointees.

Green Party co-leader Jonathan Bartley said the UK's "antique undemocratic voting system" had contributed to the "disastrous" state of the country.

"In 1867, the Representation of the People Act saw a massive expansion of the male franchise," he said. "People in the future might well look back to this event and see in it the seeds of the same scale of transformation, with a similar approach."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48847542

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

The Brexit Party has joined forces with the Lib Dems, the Greens and the SNP to call for a citizens' assembly to decide changes to the UK's voting system.

The parties have signed a declaration calling for the first-past-the-post method for Westminster elections to be replaced by a proportional system.

They say a "large group of ordinary people" should meet and hear from experts before recommending changes.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48847542

 

One of the few good - and very, very important - things that could come out of the current mess.

 

It's a mug's game trying to predict the outcome of the next general election, even if it happens soon. But there's a distinct chance of another hung parliament - and possibly of Con, Lab, LDs & Brexit Party all getting 20-30% of the vote.

If so, I hope the pro-reform parties make this idea a precondition for supporting any minority govt - and I hope Labour wake the hell up and support that. The moment could be right, given the chaos & contempt for democratic politics now.

 

Funny enough, at the next election the SNP could well be one of the parties massively over-represented under FPTP, as it was in 2015. They could easily get 100% of the MPs in Scotland on less than 50% of the vote (nearly managed that in 2015).

While I've no time for Farage's politics, it was an outrage that UKIP didn't get more MPs at previous elections - likewise for the Lib Dems & Greens.

If UKIP had got more MPs earlier, maybe some issues might have been addressed more urgently & we'd never have had any Brexit referendum....

 

Personally, I'd favour Single Transferable Vote in Multi-Member Constituencies (similar to European election system, but allowing you to vote 1-2-3 etc. for different parties/candidates, with surplus votes transferred).

That would be much more fair & proportional, would retain some constituency link & would minimise the risk of tiny parties holding the balance of power (the problem with ultra-pure systems as in Israel)

[Jon the Hat]

If we have an election shortly, you can imagine a Tory/Brexit party coalition with Farage as number 2 to Boris.  Libs will improve but won't want a coalition with any of the other parties, Labour can't do it on their own as they are toxic.

[David Guiza]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

If we have an election shortly, you can imagine a Tory/Brexit party coalition with Farage as number 2 to Boris.  Libs will improve but won't want a coalition with any of the other parties, Labour can't do it on their own as they are toxic.