Puel Gone - Official

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

Just now, ThaiFox said:

Nacho did a few things, but working hard wasn't one of them. His control is poor for a P/L footballer, he doesn't seem to be aware of any of his team mates, and I noticed at one point he did find a good position but his team mate didn't pass to him, which didn't surprise me as I doubt he had any confidence in him either.

 

As for Vardy. OK, he had a poor game on Saturday, but this bloke busts a gut for us week in week out and as I said before, I will never stop defending and supporting players who care, but I have no time whatsoever for players who don't care, even more so when they cost 25 million and earn the obscene amount of 40k+ A WEEK.

 

Vardy looks like he cares. Nacho looks like he couldn't care less. You just can't compare them.

 

Nacho will get my full support when I see him busting a gut for us, whatever his short comings as a player, I want to see him looking like he wants it here, not drifting around.

 

And if you look at the player ratings after each match, you will see I am not alone in my views. The only time he doesn't come last is when Ghezzal plays, which I find hard to swallow, because for all Ghezzal's faults, he does work hard. 

 

 

Fair enough about Ghezzal, he does seem to work hard and he does have ability.  On Saturday he was making silly errors that were clearly down to nerves and I guess he has our crowd to fight against

 

With Nacho I dont believe he doesnt care, not based on anything other than I just think its unlikely, just think he has no confidence and he is not feeling the love which doesnt help.  I dont think his touch is bad when he's playing well, but his mentality is not good, agree on this, just no on the specifics of it

 

On Saturday Vardy needed to switch up what he was doing occasionally, even the best strikers drop deep sometimes to get involved and alter the dynamics of whats happening on the pitch.  You cant just stand on the shoulder of the last man all game and complain about getting no service.  I'd love to know how many touches he had on Saturday because I remember long periods where he was anonymous -  this could be from the manager's instruction to stay hanging on the defender's shoulder, I dont know, but we do know that thats Vardy's game and its what he wants to do.

 

When Gray played up top we were so much more balanced and players interweaved with their movements making us much more dynamic as a team.  Vardy's game style is as much to blame for him not affecting what happens on the pitch for long periods of the game as much as the team's general lack of creativity, is my opinion.  I may be wrong there and it might be manager's instructions, but I dont think thats the whole story regarding Vardy's poor games.

 

I dont think he could be said to have busted a gut on Saturday

[ThaiFox]

2 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Fair enough about Ghezzal, he does seem to work hard and he does have ability.  On Saturday he was making silly errors that were clearly down to nerves and I guess he has our crowd to fight against

 

With Nacho I dont believe he doesnt care, not based on anything other than I just think its unlikely, just think he has no confidence and he is not feeling the love which doesnt help.  I dont think his touch is bad when he's playing well, but his mentality is not good, agree on this, just no on the specifics of it

 

On Saturday Vardy needed to switch up what he was doing occasionally, even the best strikers drop deep sometimes to get involved and alter the dynamics of whats happening on the pitch.  You cant just stand on the shoulder of the last man all game and complain about getting no service.  I'd love to know how many touches he had on Saturday because I remember long periods where he was anonymous -  this could be from the manager's instruction to stay hanging on the defender's shoulder, I dont know, but we do know that thats Vardy's game and its what he wants to do.

 

When Gray played up top we were so much more balanced and players interweaved with their movements making us much more dynamic as a team.  Vardy's game style is as much to blame for him not affecting what happens on the pitch for long periods of the game as much as the team's general lack of creativity, is my opinion.  I may be wrong there and it might be manager's instructions, but I dont think thats the whole story regarding Vardy's poor games.

 

I dont think he could be said to have busted a gut on Saturday

You make some excellent points.

 

I feel for Ghezzal, he has to cope with a crowd who obviously have made up their minds about him, but he tries so hard, even if he plays badly. And on Saturday he was poor. But he tried and looks like he cares.

 

Maybe Nacho does care. Who knows? I just want to see him get involved in games. Against Liverpool he ran on, religiously crossed himself, then just stood on the half way line pointing his finger for others to cover and chase. We were holding on to a well earned draw, we had played very well, and a lot of our players were shattered. But although he had the freshest legs he hardly broke into a trot. I was screaming at the TV because his attitude stank. I honestly thought bringing Simpson on up front would have given us a better impact.

 

Totally agree with your other points. Vardy was poor on Saturday, but I bet we see a different Vardy tomorrow night (Wednesday morning for me!) now the Puel shackles have been taken off!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

10 minutes ago, ThaiFox said:

You make some excellent points.

 

I feel for Ghezzal, he has to cope with a crowd who obviously have made up their minds about him, but he tries so hard, even if he plays badly. And on Saturday he was poor. But he tried and looks like he cares.

 

Maybe Nacho does care. Who knows? I just want to see him get involved in games. Against Liverpool he ran on, religiously crossed himself, then just stood on the half way line pointing his finger for others to cover and chase. We were holding on to a well earned draw, we had played very well, and a lot of our players were shattered. But although he had the freshest legs he hardly broke into a trot. I was screaming at the TV because his attitude stank. I honestly thought bringing Simpson on up front would have given us a better impact.

 

Totally agree with your other points. Vardy was poor on Saturday, but I bet we see a different Vardy tomorrow night (Wednesday morning for me!) now the Puel shackles have been taken off!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes you may be right about Nacho, when he has spells like that I genuinely wonder if he's just at a loss as of what to do or what.  Hopefully the next manager will manage to draw out of him what we know he can play like.

 

It will be very interesting seeing how the players react and how whoever is managing us will set us up.  I have no idea, hope we can the traditional reaction of playing out of their skin for this game, but i'm not sure.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

13 hours ago, Babylon said:

Nobody said anything of the sort.

What are you talking about you are guilty of it. 

 

Geoff has been advising of Puel being a ****, and upsetting not only players but other staff for 12 months amoungst other things. ?

 

The replies to this have usually been classics such as; “who says so”, “name names Geoff”, “prove it”, “can we get that in writing” etc.

 

You favourite retort I seem to remember is that all these ‘stories’ under Puel can only be from players who don’t actually play; meaning there’s been no justifiable discontent whatsoever with Puel regarding the players and other staff. Which as it transpires is wrong.

 

 

[Ceirboy]

The first thing the new manager has to do is ban N'didi from shooting. The team we have isn't as good as some on here are suggesting, so don't be surprised to see it pulled apart by the new man.

Maddison is a yard too slow physically and mentally for the Premier League. Maguire, likewise. Grey, will never be PL standard. Ghezzal, forget it. I could go on, youth or not, the team is just not creative enough and lacks composure.

Kasper and Vardy have had their days, I suspect Vardy knows that but Kasper, for some strange reason, has this belief that he should be playing at a bigger club. Kasper is not in the top 10 best keepers on the PL and I doubt he is the best at the club if i'm honest.

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

What are you talking about you are guilty of it. 

 

Geoff has been advising of Puel being a ****, and upsetting not only players but other staff for 12 months amoungst other things. ?

 

The replies to this have usually been classics such as; “who says so”, “name names Geoff”, “prove it”, “can we get that in writing” etc.

 

You favourite retort I seem to remember is that all these ‘stories’ under Puel can only be from players who don’t actually play; meaning there’s been no justifiable discontent whatsoever with Puel regarding the players and other staff. Which as it transpires is wrong.

Rubbish, not once ever did I state that it can "only be from players who don't play". What I said, and it's in black and white if anyone wants to check this is that how big an issue it is depends on who is saying it, that point still stands. Because any manager, no matter who they were is going to make enemies in a squad when he's dealing with so many aging players and flops all being phased out at the same time.

 

At no point did I question that Geoff did not have a credible source, but the source does matter and does make a difference in how you take it. If it's Simpson, King, Fuchs then you have to take on board the fact they aren't going to be happy with being sidelined. If it's Chilwell, Maguire, Ndidi type players who it's coming from, then it's a totally different situation.

[st albans fox]

This place is getting more and more ridiculous..... the idea that dimi’s movement as a no 9 made us a great team at spurs ...... seriously, have a word with yourselves - he is lost up there 

 

and that maguire is a yard too slow for this league ..... 

 

there is plenty more dross on here to correct but I need to something more important than reading sh1t which is to have one.......

[The Doctor]

Just now, st albans fox said:

This place is getting more and more ridiculous..... the idea that dimi’s movement as a no 9 made us a great team at spurs ...... seriously, have a word with yourselves - he is lost up there 

Except that's a perfectly good argument - it might have been completely accidental on account of him being a winger typically (well, it almost certainly was) but he moved their defence around far more than Vardy has all season, and it created plenty of space for Barnes in particular. He definitely did move well, the argument is whether that's just by mistake.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

This place is getting more and more ridiculous..... the idea that dimi’s movement as a no 9 made us a great team at spurs ...... seriously, have a word with yourselves - he is lost up there 

 

and that maguire is a yard too slow for this league ..... 

 

there is plenty more dross on here to correct but I need to something more important than reading sh1t which is to have one.......

He literally did better there than Vardy did against PALACE on Saturday

 

Vardy going 90 minutes touching the ball twice is ok for you because he is Vardy and not Dimi. End of

[CosbehFox]

Ultimately Puel just didn't fit with what the club has carved themselves out to be; high-tempo, in your face, aggressive. He's had plenty of factors holding him back and there are positives in way he's dealt with them. I think a decent manager ultimately recognises what a squad is capable off and how a squad needs to evolves. Instead he went too far with the latter. 

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Except that's a perfectly good argument - it might have been completely accidental on account of him being a winger typically (well, it almost certainly was) but he moved their defence around far more than Vardy has all season, and it created plenty of space for Barnes in particular. He definitely did move well, the argument is whether that's just by mistake.

I would suggest the biggest difference was that they left space by pushing more than two or three people forward at a time, which I don't think Palace ever bothered to do. The fact they scored 4 goals when barely even bothering to attack shows how utterly shit we were defensively.

[Babylon]

1 minute ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Ultimately Puel just didn't fit with what the club has carved themselves out to be; high-tempo, in your face, aggressive. He's had plenty of factors holding him back and there are positives in way he's dealt with them. I think a decent manager ultimately recognises what a squad is capable off and how a squad needs to evolves. Instead he went too far with the latter. 

What worries me massively and this comes from Huth basically saying the same, is that the players thought everything was fine as it was. It really wasn't, how high tempo, in your face and aggressive were we when we tamely slid down the table under Ranieri, or for Shakey when we were just as drab and ineffective against the lower teams, like we were at Huddersfield and at home to West Brom.

 

If they all disagreed that things needed to change, then there are big big issues. I can't shake the feeling that like so many fans, many player are totally hung up on what won the league and think that all we need to do is go back to that and all will be fine.

[st albans fox]

10 minutes ago, Babylon said:

What worries me massively and this comes from Huth basically saying the same, is that the players thought everything was fine as it was. It really wasn't, how high tempo, in your face and aggressive were we when we tamely slid down the table under Ranieri, or for Shakey when we were just as drab and ineffective against the lower teams, like we were at Huddersfield and at home to West Brom.

 

If they all disagreed that things needed to change, then there are big big issues. I can't shake the feeling that like so many fans, many player are totally hung up on what won the league and think that all we need to do is go back to that and all will be fine.

I’m sure the players dont think that 

 

im sure the players recognise that there are different ways of playing 

 

i believe that in general, manager wasn’t adaptable rather than the players and staff

 

and there is a way of going about something to carry people with you and of inspiring your team behind you 

 

‘apparently’, this is where Puel was lacking 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

23 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Except that's a perfectly good argument - it might have been completely accidental on account of him being a winger typically (well, it almost certainly was) but he moved their defence around far more than Vardy has all season, and it created plenty of space for Barnes in particular. He definitely did move well, the argument is whether that's just by mistake.

You don’t think that may have something to do with the style of the opposition in the different games ie, Palace dropping to the edge of their area, whilst Tottenham played a completely different game? 

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I’m sure the players dont think that

But going back to the other thread, that seemed to be exactly what Huth was suggesting, when he said he was "working against the players" and the style we had before.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

Just now, NotTheMarketLeader said:

You don’t think that may have something to do with the style of the opposition in the different games ie, Palace dropping to the edge of their area, whilst Tottenham played a completely different game? 

So you think Vardy should only be played against top 6 teams?

 

Are we going to move forward accepting our striker is useless against over half the league?

 

[MC Prussian]

7 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

So you think Vardy should only be played against top 6 teams?

 

Are we going to move forward accepting our striker is useless against over half the league?

 

I'm still not sold on the "Vardy is shit", "isn't as good as he once was" or "can't cut it against the better teams in this league" argument.

 

From my perspective, it's clear he's ineffective in this bloody 4-2-3-1 that Puel tried to implement.

Either Vardy needs a striker partner up front (and I think Iheanacho would be the one), or support from either a centre forward (as Okazaki used to be) or midfielders that can actually link up with Vardy and play a proper through ball.

 

Sure, part of Vardy's dilemma is him being rather wasteful this season, but that's just half of the truth.

[escos]

Why do we have to blame certain players every time a manager fails? It wasn’t just at Leicester that Puel wasn’t popular with the players, staff, press and a large section of fans. It was exactly the same at Southampton. He was just not good enough for the premier league or maybe English football all together. 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

Just now, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

So you think Vardy should only be played against top 6 teams?

 

Are we going to move forward accepting our striker is useless against over half the league?

 

What are writing about here? 

 

The matter here in question is people claiming that Gray is a better option for us up front than Vardy based on the former’s one performance against Spurs.

 

Firstly, for me Gray did next to nothing that Vardy would not do had he been playing in that game. Gray has neither the drive / intensity or the pace of Vardy, plus he ‘doesn’t’ score goals. Check his record.

 

Thats not to say I don’t think Gray

has potential, but it’s laughable to suggest he is better option than Vards.

 

The debate is a comparison of the two players so I’m not sure of the relevance of your post above.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

3 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

What are writing about here? 

 

The matter here in question is people claiming that Gray is a better option for us up front than Vardy based on the former’s one performance against Spurs.

 

Firstly, for me Gray did next to nothing that Vardy would not do had he been playing in that game. Gray has neither the drive / intensity or the pace of Vardy, plus he ‘doesn’t’ score goals. Check his record.

 

Thats not to say I don’t think Gray

has potential, but it’s laughable to suggest he is better option than Vards.

 

The debate is a comparison of the two players so I’m not sure of the relevance of your post above.

It was said that Gray was useless earlier on in this discussion and I was speaking about this in comparison with Vardy

 

We cant call Gray useless if Vardy has useless games too

 

I still think Vardy is our best option up front.  Its just I think its ridiculous how young players get slated as being 'useless' when our star isnt necessarily always performing.  Puel had a right to try Gray up top and I dont think it proved a ridiculous experiment

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

6 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I'm still not sold on the "Vardy is shit", "isn't as good as he once was" or "can't cut it against the better teams in this league" argument.

 

From my perspective, it's clear he's ineffective in this bloody 4-2-3-1 that Puel tried to implement.

Either Vardy needs a striker partner up front (and I think Iheanacho would be the one), or support from either a centre forward (as Okazaki used to be) or midfielders that can actually link up with Vardy and play a proper through ball.

 

Sure, part of Vardy's dilemma is him being rather wasteful this season, but that's just half of the truth.

This may definitely be the case and I hope that it is,

 

And we will get to see for the rest of the season just how true it is.  I hope for our sake that Vardy turns it on again

 

However this wont change the fact that he's missed a lot of chances to score under Puel

[Dames]

15 minutes ago, Babylon said:

But going back to the other thread, that seemed to be exactly what Huth was suggesting, when he said he was "working against the players" and the style we had before.

I think you're missing out the statement before that were Huth said that they were receptive of his changes and tried their best to adhere to them but they could see things weren't quite working and made suggestions which were completely dismissed by Puel.

 

That's where he was working against the players because he was treating them as school children. In any work place a good manager works with his team, takes their suggestions on board and doesn't completely dismiss them out of hand. The authoritative approach doesn't work anymore, Puel sadly did not realise that and probably never will.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Geoff has been advising of Puel being a ****, and upsetting not only players but other staff for 12 months amoungst other things. ?

The replies to this have usually been classics such as; “who says so”, “name names Geoff”, “prove it”, “can we get that in writing” etc.

You favourite retort I seem to remember is that all these ‘stories’ under Puel can only be from players who don’t actually play; 

meaning there’s been no justifiable discontent whatsoever with Puel regarding the players and other staff. Which as it transpires is wrong.

 

55 minutes ago, Babylon said:

At no point did I question that Geoff did not have a credible source, but the source does matter and does make a difference in how you take it. 

Let me explain the difference between "source" and "sources".

Fans who claim to be ITK will I suspect have one source - their brother's mate knows one of the groundstaff etc.

There was a feeling on here (and social media) that I had one source (and that Percy, Whitwell etc also only had one source).

And that single source was going to be a player who wasn't playing so had a specific axe to grind.

Journalists use multiple sources. I was getting info over the past year from probably 8-10 people (from players, coaching staff, other club employees, agents etc).

When you hear so many people, independently, saying the same kind of stuff, you sit up and listen.

I tried to convey those messages, without naming names or even what their job was because journalists don't do that.

Some of you here just wouldn't have it. It was one source. It was an agenda. Blah blah.

I didn't post here from 4th January until yesterday because it just went round and round in circles and I needed a break from the madness.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter whether people believe what I (or other newspaper journalists) said or not. But this is to give you an idea of how it works.

As for the next manager, let's hope we make the right decision and we unite in love for our amazing club. Onwards and upwards x

[Ian S]

13 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Wow that's a brilliant post! Spot on in my book.

 

The next permanent appointment really is crucial and worryingly it does feel like it could go all Peter Taylor following Martin O'Neil wrong if the wrong appointment is made.

Not quite spot on, he mentions Demarie Gray and England in the same sentence.

 

[rachhere]

47 minutes ago, Babylon said:

What worries me massively and this comes from Huth basically saying the same, is that the players thought everything was fine as it was. It really wasn't, how high tempo, in your face and aggressive were we when we tamely slid down the table under Ranieri, or for Shakey when we were just as drab and ineffective against the lower teams, like we were at Huddersfield and at home to West Brom.

 

If they all disagreed that things needed to change, then there are big big issues. I can't shake the feeling that like so many fans, many player are totally hung up on what won the league and think that all we need to do is go back to that and all will be fine.

Nah, for me this is saying that the players were frustrated that the manager didn't want to play to their strengths. There's got to be a bit of a middle ground between the way we were playing before and Puel's approach.