Tielemans

[Jattdogg]

1 minute ago, Kopfkino said:

Your figures are wrong. The subsequent events section of the accounts every year basically tells us our net spend.

18/19 - 43.3m

17/18 - 57.7m

16/17 - 47.9m

15/16 - 33.7m

14/15 - 13m

 

Of course they may still show what you say they show but they are quite different.

Right or wrong, can i get a piece of the net spend, maybe 1 to 1.5 mill? 

[Kopfkino]

24 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

Much appreciated! I didn't realise the loans were tied in that way which makes that awkward, but I'm hardly in the know in the bigger scheme of things. I know we have a youthful, dynamic and talented squad but it would be a shame to sell Maguire (who I think this year would be his last either way) in order to fund players. I dont want clubs above us thinking they can just buy Maguire because if not then they know that our summer recruitment plans are bugered, ultimately bringing down his price too (being touted much lower against other CB's of his calibre on the market right now anyway)

 

I'd like to see 2/3 substantial signings this year. I guess from the maths in this feed that we'd be looking at tielemans, Augustus and an ibe type player (hopefully not ibe!)

 

Thanks again. 

 

I wouldn't get too bogged down by the loans. People have made big assumptions about the loans based on little information (they may be right, they may be wrong). Much of the league has different sorts of secured lending listed on Companies House, some we know the nature of the security, some we don't. For example, the first thing Wolves did when they came up is borrowed against their PL Central funds. In fact we did it in 2014 and 2015. A few people in the Directors office at the KP know how the club is being financed going forward, everyone else is purely guessing. 

[Tanya]

I'd be comfortable selling a big asset (Macguire, most likely). I honestly think Youri is key to how we play, and the most vital cog for us to push on and be a regular threat to the 7 and even 6th, position.

 

 

 

 

 

[UHDrive]

25 minutes ago, North Leeds Fox said:

Yeah definitely. I understand the fans that say that we wouldn't get top 6 without a player like maguire, the only real response is that we also won't get top 6 with gray playing right mid or mendy playing centre mid. We can sort those issues this summer and use players that we have already bought to replace maguire, even though he is a player I have loved playing for us as he really understands the club. My other feeling is it is hard to attract players like youri if he feels we would then be a nightmare to get out of when he is ready to move on. We need to be seen as the best club for players that want to come to england but are not ready for a utd etc and we sell them on for 3 times the price 

Maguire agreed but not Ndidi. Choudary is the future but I don't think hes had long enough in the first team and I'd prefer mendy to be sold given he only has one year left on his contract anyway leaving choudary and ndidi as the holding players.

 

I don't think Youri would want to come here solely as a stepping stone (in part yes for development). If the club wants top 6 football next year then that must be conveyed to prospective players and the current ones too. I appreciate the club is going through a transition with the training ground/stadium etc but the brutal truth is that we find ourselves potentially with a team to break into the top 6 and with BR acknowledging that. Building up slowly by "knocking off" one of our main stars every year isn't going to cut it. The owners for me are in a position where they've put money into the club from the owners outside business's for this summer. This can be the only explanation if BR has been assured of funds to fix the areas of the squad that he wants fixing. BR won't wait for Maguire to be sold in August after a protracted bidding war only to then buy the players he needs. BR has already said he wants a good pre season with the whole of next years squad as early as possible. 

 

I feel it would be naive for us to bury our head in the sands and not acknowledge that the top 6 has a rough idea of our financial position (vice versa) and that any bidding on Maguire ect would reflect that.

 

I could be hideously wrong (probably)...just my thought 

Edited 17 May 2019 by UHDrive
Missed a bit out

[Rusko187]

42 minutes ago, Babylon said:

So do I, the owners are good because they don't take a huge amount out and we always put back in anything we make. But unless we do something either very creative or shunt the problem down the line (ie. we have 0 to spend for a few seasons after), then we are most likely to continue investing in a similar manner to how we have before. 

Agreed 100%, owners need not plough money into the club... they've done enough as it is.

 

Beginning to feel like unless we do something special akin to 2015/16 season or get extremely lucky with transfers (in the respect of unearthing gems like Mahrez and Kante), then we've reached our financial ceiling. Naturally our strategy is blooding through youth players and making money via that route but unfortunately, our policy of "not being a selling club" is only going to hinder our long term progression.

For me to get hold of Tielemans, we will have to make a substantial amount to pay for the transfer. We've got to weigh it up, either Maguire goes and we get Tielemans in... or, Maguire stays and we seek an alternative CM. 

 

I personally find the Ajax model to be very interesting and one we should look to adopt, extremely sustainable and could potentially be our route to the top. We present an option for young players to come here, ply their trade and when ready move on to the next step. Doing this model does not mean we will never achieve success... just we have to work harder for it and be more patient. 

It is time to face facts though, that our best assets will only use us as a stepping stone to progress their career, which in fairness already happens with pretty much 99.5% of clubs around the world. I don't see us ever being able to compete commercially against the likes of other world-renowned clubs, so instead, we have to be clever with how we run the club, any money made from transfers or profits instead gets injected back into the academies and signing potential talent for the development squad. After all, we've been fairly hit and miss with big money signings, is it really a bad fact to face.

 

(Hopefully that puts my view across right).

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Rusko187 said:

Agreed 100%, owners need not plough money into the club... they've done enough as it is.

 

Beginning to feel like unless we do something special akin to 2015/16 season or get extremely lucky with transfers (in the respect of unearthing gems like Mahrez and Kante), then we've reached our financial ceiling. Naturally our strategy is blooding through youth players and making money via that route but unfortunately, our policy of "not being a selling club" is only going to hinder our long term progression.

For me to get hold of Tielemans, we will have to make a substantial amount to pay for the transfer. We've got to weigh it up, either Maguire goes and we get Tielemans in... or, Maguire stays and we seek an alternative CM. 

 

I personally find the Ajax model to be very interesting and one we should look to adopt, extremely sustainable and could potentially be our route to the top. We present an option for young players to come here, ply their trade and when ready move on to the next step. Doing this model does not mean we will never achieve success... just we have to work harder for it and be more patient. 

It is time to face facts though, that our best assets will only use us as a stepping stone to progress their career, which in fairness already happens with pretty much 99.5% of clubs around the world. I don't see us ever being able to compete commercially against the likes of other world-renowned clubs, so instead, we have to be clever with how we run the club, any money made from transfers or profits instead gets injected back into the academies and signing potential talent for the development squad. After all, we've been fairly hit and miss with big money signings, is it really a bad fact to face.

 

(Hopefully that puts my view across right).

I agree with all of this but how scary is it that we then go and take a huge risk by employing Lee Congerton or being very stubborn/blind loyal to the same academy coaches we've had since our League One days.

[Xen]

41 minutes ago, North Leeds Fox said:

Cheers for the update babylon and ric. What I would take from the above is our business in the summer will have to be very similar to dortmund in the last few seasons, in that they lose a big name for mega money and buy 3-4 better players in their weak positions so it improves the overall squad. For example, get a bidding war started for maguire with utd, city both needing CBs and then go and get the likes of sarr, augustin, and youri with clever additions like milner supplementing that. Next year maddison and repeat the process. 

Yup. It's exactly what we did last year in fact. We sold Mahrez for a large sum and used it to add a number of creative players in Maddison/Ghezzal/Ricardo (to spread the load rather than rely on a single player) and planned ahead by getting the two CBs for the future as well as Evans for a transition period, which coincidentally opens up the door for us to potentially cash in on Maguire now.

 

There seems to be a big push by the owners to make the club self-sustainable, which should be commended when compared to how other PL clubs are typically being run. It's worked pretty well this season, so with a bit of luck we can repeat the feat this summer.

 

There's a lot to be said for having a debt-free club.

[Rusko187]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I agree with all of this but how scary is it that we then go and take a huge risk by employing Lee Congerton or being very stubborn/blind loyal to the same academy coaches we've had since our League One days.

Heard the horror stories about Congerton but don't know enough to pass judgement, maybe he has an eye for potential as opposed to established players... maybe I'm just talking nonsense and he's a mate of Rodgers.

Time will tell.

[car1os]

12 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I agree with all of this but how scary is it that we then go and take a huge risk by employing Lee Congerton or being very stubborn/blind loyal to the same academy coaches we've had since our League One days.

Looking at things from a superficial point of view, our youth set up doesn’t seem too bad right now seeing as we have 3 academy products in our first team and have others playing well in our u23s or on loan. As Xen says, I think we’ve done well overall in our recruitment of younger players as well as promoting youth to make our club self-sustainable.

 

Maybe we’ve just had a good batch of youngsters (some credit to Puel/Rodgers too for giving them game time) but I’m more concerned about the influence of Congerton and his recruitment strategy than the quality of our youth set-up when it comes to becoming and remaining self-sustainable

Edited 17 May 2019 by car1os

[murphy]

54 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Bang on and we'd be silly not to cash in if the opportunity presents itself for a player that we could manage without. Maguire or even Ndidi would raise funds to strengthen elsewhere and have younger players waiting in the wings to fill the void. It is a risk, we think Benkovic or Soyuncu can come in alongside Evans and do well and likewise we think Choudhury could operate the Ndidi role and free up the finances to sign Tielemans as well as give us enough leeway to strengthen other areas and try and move us on to challenging the top 6. It's a balancing act, some fans will kick off and say we stand no chance of getting in the top 6 if we look to sell out top assets without fighting tooth and nail for them but we can't magic money out of thin air so if fans really think we are going to have a net spend of £50-100m then A) pass me the sniff or B) there's tom foolery going on.

But there is an alternative.  Sell the players we don't actually want.

 

If we're in the market for a RW then sell Gray.  For a striker we can (try to) sell Nacho and Slim.  There is also Silva, James and Mendy that could be seen as surplus with the emergence of Choudhury.  I think those players would easily top the value of Maguire and wouldn't hurt us.  I mean we haven't missed Silva and Slim have we?

 

I think that we are in a pretty amazing and possibly unique position where there are only a couple of positions in the first XI that we can realistically upgrade.  Right wing and Centre mid with the benefit of already identifying the latter.

[Ric Flair]

10 minutes ago, car1os said:

Looking at things from a superficial point of view, our youth set up doesn’t seem too bad right now seeing as we have 3 academy products in our first team and have others playing well in our u23s or on loan. As Xen says, I think we’ve done well overall in our recruitment of younger players as well as promoting youth to make our club self-sustainable.

 

Maybe we’ve just had a good batch of youngsters (some credit to Puel/Rodgers too for giving them game time) but I’m more concerned about the influence of Congerton and his recruitment strategy than the quality of our youth set-up when it comes to becoming and remaining self-sustainable

I think it's two fold, we need to be very good at recruitment but we also should try and make our academy as best it can be. The academy is a resource that can be invested in without effecting FFP as well so there's many reasons why it should become one of our main focuses, if it isn't already. The new training ground is going to give our players even more of a chance of improving but we need the very best coaches to go with it. We are pretty much all in agreement that Rodgers is regarded as a first class coach and improving players is his finest strength. Beaglehole, Peake and may other academy coaches may also be adept at what they do, I just find it very surprising that we as a club have transformed beyond recognition in the last decade and we are striving to be the best and our academy has remained largely untouched. They do some very good things in the academy, we do get our fair share of first team players from it but that's not to say it can't or shouldn't be improved. As a fan i'm often more passionate and interested in the development of the younger players through to the first team than blowing vast amounts of money for established and ordinary first team players and I probably am too harsh on our academy setup but I know a fair bit about it and think we can get better.

[Ric Flair]

5 minutes ago, murphy said:

But there is an alternative.  Sell the players we don't actually want.

 

If we're in the market for a RW then sell Gray.  For a striker we can (try to) sell Nacho and Slim.  There is also Silva, James and Mendy that could be seen as surplus with the emergence of Choudhury.  I think those players would easily top the value of Maguire and wouldn't hurt us.  I mean we haven't missed Silva and Slim have we?

 

I think that we are in a pretty amazing and possibly unique position where there are only a couple of positions in the first XI that we can realistically upgrade.  Right wing and Centre mid with the benefit of already identifying the latter.

You're not wrong, and we absolutely should be trying to move on fringe players but we all know how difficult that can be and often those sorts of players leave very late in a transfer window and if we are relying on those exits to raise funds to strengthen then it's a delicate game. Personally i'd be looking to do exactly what you suggest but be acutely aware that a tactical sale of a key asset for huge money is sometimes what's required, there's an art to it.

[Bluearmyfox28]

Think we all need to relax, the money is available & there in abundance. We can definitely afford £40m. 

[Xen]

7 minutes ago, murphy said:

But there is an alternative.  Sell the players we don't actually want.

 

If we're in the market for a RW then sell Gray.  For a striker we can (try to) sell Nacho and Slim.  There is also Silva, James and Mendy that could be seen as surplus with the emergence of Choudhury.  I think those players would easily top the value of Maguire and wouldn't hurt us.  I mean we haven't missed Silva and Slim have we?

 

I think that we are in a pretty amazing and possibly unique position where there are only a couple of positions in the first XI that we can realistically upgrade.  Right wing and Centre mid with the benefit of already identifying the latter.

If we don't want them then there's a good chance noone else does either, and certainly not for the sort of fees we could get by selling other assets.

 

Honestly, Gray (or Iheanacho), Silva, Slimani, James, and Mendy combined probably wouldn't raise as much capital as selling Maguire, for instance.

 

We absolutely need to try and move those players on as well, but that's a lot easier said than done.

[Bluearmyfox28]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Welcome!

 

Yes infrastructure is exempt from FFP if the owners are willing to fund it themselves or via other methods. However, the fact we have taken out two loans in excess of £100m that have been guaranteed against the Mahrez transfer money and PL TV rights would suggest that we might not be going down the route of Top and his family chuffing up the whole lot from their empire. Even if we don't include how that is going to be paid for and our wage bill is reduced by the loss of Iborra, Simpson, Okazaki and a few others that still probably only accounts for around £10m in wages which will be replaced if not added to by the arrival of a top drawer central midfielder like Tielemans, another striker, a winger and possibly a back up right back. Our wages will still account for the majority of our revenue so to go and spend £60-100m this summer has to revolve around us selling off one of our main assets like Maguire.

I would say we will have a lot more than £10m available in wages after sales personally at a guess I would imagine the following would of been on;

 

Jakupovic £15k

Elder £5k

Simpson £35k

King £25k

Silva £50k

Diabate £10k

James 30k

Ghezzal £30k

Kaputska £10k

Slimani £60k

 

like I say there at a guess but the wages add up to £270k a week, £1.08m a month, £12.96m a year. You could get at least 3 elite players for the team on them wages alone.

 

That’s without the likelihood of the pay cuts both Wes & Fuchs have taken to stay an extra year.

Edited 17 May 2019 by Bluearmyfox28

[themightyfin]

Maguire or Chilwell will not be sold this summer. 

 

Not unless a stupid bid comes in. 

 

Edited 17 May 2019 by themightyfin

[sphericalfox]

1 minute ago, themightyfin said:

Maguire or Chilwell will not be sold this summer. 

 

Not unless a stupid bid comes in. 

 

So essentially we’ll be taking a financial gamble this summer with any outlay with a pretty solid demand for Europe? 

 

Risky business given our new Head of Recruitment’s history but keeping our assets does send a strong message once again, and we can ask for a significant premium should someone come knocking

[Ric Flair]

35 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Maguire or Chilwell will not be sold this summer. 

 

Not unless a stupid bid comes in. 

 

Where's the dough coming from then for us to get Tielemans, a striker and a winger?

[themightyfin]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Where's the dough coming from then for us to get Tielemans, a striker and a winger?

We wont pay £40m for Tielemans. Not that I think we will even get him anyway. 

[Tanya]

8 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

We wont pay £40m for Tielemans. Not that I think we will even get him anyway. 

Great, that's a deflating start to the window. I hope we have a plan b of how to break down obstinate teams, cause I think Youri is the perfect person to do that.

 

#sad sigh#

Edited 17 May 2019 by Tanya

[Gerard]

13 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

We wont pay £40m for Tielemans. Not that I think we will even get him anyway. 

 

I think I support this decision. 

 

Either an elite club comes in for him in which case he goes there. If they don't and the only interest is from clubs our level then £40m is too much. He's been brilliant for us but he's also surplus for whatever reason at a club on the brink of being relegated to Ligue 2 this season. 

 

I'm sure Leicester and Monaco can sort something out with Silva and Tielemans as we both covet each other's player. 

[Edingleyfox]

I'm not convinced by the Telegraph article that interest has cooled in Tielemans. However £40 million and no decent offer for Silva might make the club think about options as there are other priorities and we don't want have to balance the books by selling.If we had to sell Maguire would probably attract the biggest fee and would be the one to reluctantly let go - I would be worried if Chilwell went as he is part of our fantastic young core of players aged around 21-22 who we would all wish to develop together. Ricardo would also be a big loss if sold on.

 

Would not be surprised if Monaco are waiting for a bidding war- however IMO few clubs even in the top 6 are likely to take a risk at the £40 million mark.

[MGLCFC]

29 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

We wont pay £40m for Tielemans. Not that I think we will even get him anyway. 

Is this a known fact? Weren't we prepared to pay £40 mil+  for Sigurdssen, but were out bid by Everton? Surely we would go all out for Tielemans if he is valued at £40mil?

[HankMarvin]

1 minute ago, MGLCFC said:

Is this a known fact? Weren't we prepared to pay £40 mil+  for Sigurdssen, but were out bid by Everton? Surely we would go all out for Tielemans if he is valued at £40mil?

After winning the league and having Champions league money to offset the expenditure.

[hackneyfox]

We weren't willing to pay £40m for Sigurdsson.