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Happy Fox

30-50m Winger

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3 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

Very good points and you're right about having a viable business plan and we definitely need to move on about 4 or 5 players to clear some wage bill but I can also see why some fans feel we should go for it. In some ways its a catch 22 as we could stick with what we have (which is a decent squad and a good starting 11) and maybe push for 6th, or could we be bold and get that extra winger and push for champs league. United, Arsenal and Chelsea will not be this vulnerable forever so if we were to go for it and finish top 4 ( very big ask I know) then we would have no issues keeping our squad together next summer and building again. My worry is that next summer, we have Chilwell, Madders and Ricardo who could all be looking for a big move. And if we manage to keep Harry then he could also be tempted away next summer. Not to mention Tielemans who if he continues to develop could also be looked at by bigger clubs. Im sure the club won't want to sell 4 or 5 key players next summer but is a question of how long we can keep them all if we dont get into Europe. 

I agree with this. The stars have aligned for us this season with 3 of the big 6 in transition, all of our competitors other than Everton having European football to worry about and we've suddenly got this incredible squad with a world class, ambitious manager at the helm. I know getting 4th is a big ask but if we do then that gives us an extra £60m-£70m so it almost pays for this summer's investment anyway. 

 

The point about the players wanting to move on in a year or two scares me. A lot of them will want to play in the champions league and win trophies and if we're not doing that, they will ask to leave and all of the clubs hard work will be for nothing (apart from a huge profit). 

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4 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

Take the money out of it, the one glaring deficiency in the side is a quality wide player and regardless of cost the club should have the ambition to address that.  Cost only comes into it as the way the world is for EPL clubs now is that they have to pay a premium for players who will significantly enhance what they already have, therefore, £30-40-50m isn't an outlandish expectation from fans to acquire such a player, even more so if Maguire goes for the fees being reported.  You've already spent similar money on Tielemans so there is clearly an appetite within the club to spend this level of money should the right player become available.

 

Forget top 6, to simply improve on last year's finishing position you need that little bit of quality that separates you from the rest of the chasing pack, if you don't it's pretty much a lottery where you'll finish among that middling set of clubs such is the low disparity in points totals, 4 or 5 points could easily be the difference in an 8th place finish versus a 14 or 15th placed finish.

Regardless of whether we need one or not,  your dismissiveness of a mere 30 to 50 million pounds is synonymous with that of a dreamland supporter  (I like to dream also, I'm not knocking you) and not commensurate with that of the businessmen that run the club. You and I have absolutely no idea of the club's finances and what Top and his family are willing to throw at it . They have many other interests to satisfy. An unwillingness to invest anymore cash at this stage isn't a sign of a lack of ambition, it's a sign of a considered plan and business sense. You can't buy what someone refuses to sell or someone who doesn't want to come to Leicester regardless of price and we're never privy to such inside knowledge. Throwing money around doesn't necessarily bring success see Man Utd for that and us a very short time ago. It's about building a good team, not a team of shiny on paper individuals. The old 'every other team is buying and improving' each year is only semi viable as well as we completely blew that one out of the water, see Man City for that one. Currently they and Liverpool appear streets ahead of the rest and spending more money doesn't guarantee anything. It's not what you spend it's who you spend it on or even get on a free. I  give you Kante, Huth and Albrighton who were the men for that moment and such players for particular times still exist. The game hasn't really changed just our sense or beliefs in expenditure and perceived rightful ambitions. If we went with what we've got now with Rodgers having had a full pre season with them I think we're in very good shape. No need to spend millions more on chasing the moon. I forsee at least one more summer transfer window before a real push. Give Rodgers the same chance as Klopp at least, even Pep got two seasons with their wealth and Leicester as yet haven't the name or infastructure yet to attract some of the names suggested. We're doing it Tops way which seems sensible.

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12 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Regardless of whether we need one or not,  your dismissiveness of a mere 30 to 50 million pounds is synonymous with that of a dreamland supporter  (I like to dream also, I'm not knocking you) and not commensurate with that of the businessmen that run the club. You and I have absolutely no idea of the club's finances and what Top and his family are willing to throw at it . They have many other interests to satisfy. An unwillingness to invest anymore cash at this stage isn't a sign of a lack of ambition, it's a sign of a considered plan and business sense. You can't buy what someone refuses to sell or someone who doesn't want to come to Leicester regardless of price and we're never privy to such inside knowledge. Throwing money around doesn't necessarily bring success see Man Utd for that and us a very short time ago. It's about building a good team, not a team of shiny on paper individuals. The old 'every other team is buying and improving' each year is only semi viable as well as we completely blew that one out of the water, see Man City for that one. Currently they and Liverpool appear streets ahead of the rest and spending more money doesn't guarantee anything. It's not what you spend it's who you spend it on or even get on a free. I  give you Kante, Huth and Albrighton who were the men for that moment and such players for particular times still exist. The game hasn't really changed just our sense or beliefs in expenditure and perceived rightful ambitions. If we went with what we've got now with Rodgers having had a full pre season with them I think we're in very good shape. No need to spend millions more on chasing the moon. I forsee at least one more summer transfer window before a real push. Give Rodgers the same chance as Klopp at least, even Pep got two seasons with their wealth and Leicester as yet haven't the name or infastructure yet to attract some of the names suggested. We're doing it Tops way which seems sensible.

I'm not dismissing the sum of money at all, I'm merely suggesting it's the going rate for quality players who sides at the top end of the EPL or those with ambitions of being, typically pay to get the quality they require to push them on, that's just a fact of life.  One in 100 you'll get a diamond in the rough like the players you mention but you can't adopt that as the core of your transfer strategy, you need to be realistic if you have lofty ambitions and you need to be able to back such ambitions up.

 

No one is suggesting spending money for the sake of it and just throwing it at the first player who comes along, most posts I've seen people are voicing this opinion based on the situation whereby the opportunity presents itself to sign a player that on the face of it is a significant upgrade on the options already available within the squad.  Of course every transfer is a gamble to some degree or another, whether they cost £3m or £30m but the crux of the point is if the right player becomes available and is attainable then there's no reason why a club as well run and as ambitious as Leicester shouldn't be able to push the boat out a little bit if needs be.

 

Your right we have no idea of the club's finances but of what we do know is you could very well get circa £80m for Maguire which at the present moment would leave you in net profit for this window so in that regard a net spend of £30-40m overall is not what I'd describe as dream land, not at all.  Coming out of the summer window having spent £30-40m net is certainly not chasing the moon either.

 

Edited by henrik_62
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6 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

This 'we're going for it' is a made up term on here as far as I can see. The club's mission statement if that's what we're calling them now days is more about progression through a longer term sustainable business plan more in the Monaco and Dortmund mode I would suggest. Until we've offloaded some of our surplus to requirement players and their inherent high wages, spending 30 to 50m on a winger is less like a viable business plan and more like a drunk pissing it up the wall in an off license. They're not going to go gung ho just to please a few supporters. They may have even considered and rejected the idea of selling Maguire for a winger as they know who would truly be available to them as opposed to having a mere fantasy wish list. They may also consider through consultation with Rodgers that we already have the future Ziyech/Thauvin here with the development of Barnes for example. I'm sure they consider every angle including the betterment of the club longer term and not just one season ahead.Thus far they appear to have done well.

You really know how to take the fun out of a football forum don't you. Stop talking sense! The football Club knows more than we do about its own Business model and operation?

How dare you.(sarcastic response) :schlupp::doh::) No one knows more than us.

 

I think the club has a plan to buy before it sells. With the exception of Maguire, I'm guessing some of these deals have been informally agreed upon.

If we don't do this we risk being taken to the cleaners for every player we buy. I think its best to evaluate the window after it closes than before.

 

That said I'm quite sure the club has no intention of playing with Football funny money. That's the reason Rodgers came early. To be ready for what is happening right now.

I feel like a broken record sometimes but Rodgers really will get every last drop of potential out of every player. Its what he does best.

This is club #4 for me and I haven't seen him buy players like a drunken sailor yet. But he does need players with certain characteristics to play his style of football and get to the Top 6.

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26 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

Very good points and you're right about having a viable business plan and we definitely need to move on about 4 or 5 players to clear some wage bill but I can also see why some fans feel we should go for it. In some ways its a catch 22 as we could stick with what we have (which is a decent squad and a good starting 11) and maybe push for 6th, or could we be bold and get that extra winger and push for champs league. United, Arsenal and Chelsea will not be this vulnerable forever so if we were to go for it and finish top 4 ( very big ask I know) then we would have no issues keeping our squad together next summer and building again. My worry is that next summer, we have Chilwell, Madders and Ricardo who could all be looking for a big move. And if we manage to keep Harry then he could also be tempted away next summer. Not to mention Tielemans who if he continues to develop could also be looked at by bigger clubs. Im sure the club won't want to sell 4 or 5 key players next summer but is a question of how long we can keep them all if we dont get into Europe. 

I do understand the argument honestly and am not completely unsympathetic to it either but, neither is it our money to spend or even remotely know how much Top is willing to throw at it. We never know who they've attempted to get and failed in their attempts, how many saw the Perez purchase coming? The player you mentioned are all tied to long term contracts and so to some extent the club is in control. All those players also need to play  (I understand it'snot quite that simple though). We are totally unaware of the debt to be managed in terms of surplus players. The club will and it is rightly their decision to manage it how they seem fit. The chasing after one or two league positions is a bit like gambling, ever chasing the holy grail. The annals of football history of full of clubs that have subsequently gone tits up chasing that one more goal. My personal belief is that we have owners in charge currently who are striving the right way and should be trusted as they have all the facts in front of them.

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3 minutes ago, SO1 said:

You really know how to take the fun out of a football forum don't you. Stop talking sense! The football Club knows more than we do about its own Business model and operation?

How dare you.(sarcastic response) :schlupp::doh::) No one knows more than us.

 

I think the club has a plan to buy before it sells. With the exception of Maguire, I'm guessing some of these deals have been informally agreed upon.

If we don't do this we risk being taken to the cleaners for every player we buy. I think its best to evaluate the window after it closes than before.

 

That said I'm quite sure the club has no intention of playing with Football funny money. That's the reason Rodgers came early. To be ready for what is happening right now.

I feel like a broken record sometimes but Rodgers really will get every last drop of potential out of every player. Its what he does best.

This is club #4 for me and I haven't seen him buy players like a drunken sailor yet. But he does need players with certain characteristics to play his style of football and get to the Top 6.

Now who's talking sense!

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44 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

Take the money out of it, the one glaring deficiency in the side is a quality wide player and regardless of cost the club should have the ambition to address that.  Cost only comes into it as the way the world is for EPL clubs now is that they have to pay a premium for players who will significantly enhance what they already have, therefore, £30-40-50m isn't an outlandish expectation from fans to acquire such a player, even more so if Maguire goes for the fees being reported.  You've already spent similar money on Tielemans so there is clearly an appetite within the club to spend this level of money should the right player become available.

 

Forget top 6, to simply improve on last year's finishing position you need that little bit of quality that separates you from the rest of the chasing pack, if you don't it's pretty much a lottery where you'll finish among that middling set of clubs such is the low disparity in points totals, 4 or 5 points could easily be the difference in an 8th place finish versus a 14 or 15th placed finish.  A bad spate of injuries, suspensions, cruel run of fixtures could all lead to that latter scenario so I believe you need that little bit extra to separate you from the Everton's and West Ham's in and around you.

 

As for the deadwood such as Slimani and Ghezzal, it's fantasy to think another club is going to come in and take them off your hands.  These guys are on lucrative contracts that no club outside the EPL will be able to match and as such the players will be happy to sit tight.  The best you can hope for is to send these guys out on loan and get as much of their wages covered as possible for the duration of their contracts.

 

I tend to agree with you Henrik but Rodgers was a large part of the quality we missed last season that can take us away from the rest of the chasing pack. We do need a top winger though but the influence Rodgers will have compared to last season will be another massive step towards the Top 6. 

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7 minutes ago, SO1 said:

You really know how to take the fun out of a football forum don't you. Stop talking sense! The football Club knows more than we do about its own Business model and operation?

How dare you.(sarcastic response) :schlupp::doh::) No one knows more than us.

 

I think the club has a plan to buy before it sells. With the exception of Maguire, I'm guessing some of these deals have been informally agreed upon.

If we don't do this we risk being taken to the cleaners for every player we buy. I think its best to evaluate the window after it closes than before.

 

That said I'm quite sure the club has no intention of playing with Football funny money. That's the reason Rodgers came early. To be ready for what is happening right now.

I feel like a broken record sometimes but Rodgers really will get every last drop of potential out of every player. Its what he does best.

This is club #4 for me and I haven't seen him buy players like a drunken sailor yet. But he does need players with certain characteristics to play his style of football and get to the Top 6.

Latterly at Celtic he did tbh, guys like Kouassi, Compper, Hendry. etc, etc but a lot of that blame can probably lie at Congerton's door.

 

I get it's not the same level of spending as in the EPL but it's relative at least.

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7 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I do understand the argument honestly and am not completely unsympathetic to it either but, neither is it our money to spend or even remotely know how much Top is willing to throw at it. We never know who they've attempted to get and failed in their attempts, how many saw the Perez purchase coming? The player you mentioned are all tied to long term contracts and so to some extent the club is in control. All those players also need to play  (I understand it'snot quite that simple though). We are totally unaware of the debt to be managed in terms of surplus players. The club will and it is rightly their decision to manage it how they seem fit. The chasing after one or two league positions is a bit like gambling, ever chasing the holy grail. The annals of football history of full of clubs that have subsequently gone tits up chasing that one more goal. My personal belief is that we have owners in charge currently who are striving the right way and should be trusted as they have all the facts in front of them.

I agree and I feel we have a manager that will work well with the owners to balance the finances and the ambitions. Brendan will know what budgets he has to work with and will know what, if any, other players we need to strengthen the squad. But a key thing for the club is clearing Slimani, Silva, King and James which will be easier said than done given the wages they will all be on. 

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I would usually advocate keeping the books balanced, but this season it's time to strike while the iron is hot. Make the necessary signings and hold on to our top players a bit longer.

 

If we don't get champions league football next season we'll probably lose several members of the squad. It wouldn't be the end of the world as we'd probably get decent money, but we might as well may a proper go of it now seeing as we'll most likely have a fair amount of cash incoming at some point in the next season or two....

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26 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I do understand the argument honestly and am not completely unsympathetic to it either but, neither is it our money to spend or even remotely know how much Top is willing to throw at it. We never know who they've attempted to get and failed in their attempts, how many saw the Perez purchase coming? The player you mentioned are all tied to long term contracts and so to some extent the club is in control. All those players also need to play  (I understand it'snot quite that simple though). We are totally unaware of the debt to be managed in terms of surplus players. The club will and it is rightly their decision to manage it how they seem fit. The chasing after one or two league positions is a bit like gambling, ever chasing the holy grail. The annals of football history of full of clubs that have subsequently gone tits up chasing that one more goal. My personal belief is that we have owners in charge currently who are striving the right way and should be trusted as they have all the facts in front of them.

Couldn't agree more.............. Maybe the hell with Rodgers. Should have just hired Mourinho and gave him a couple of hundred million. If we absolutely have to have it Now. Worked well for United.

Rodgers deserves at least one summer to see what he can do with these players before we cast everyone overboard.

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As with many things that happen at this club, the sage approach taken is often not noted until the power of hindsight is available. Investment now, a season or two of growth/progression, then we will be best able to judge the signings and what Brendan has been able to produce with said riches.

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Guest SO1
13 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

Latterly at Celtic he did tbh, guys like Kouassi, Compper, Hendry. etc, etc but a lot of that blame can probably lie at Congerton's door.

 

I get it's not the same level of spending as in the EPL but it's relative at least.

Sorry, its a totally different context. I don't want to discuss this aspect of Celtic with you as we come from different anecdotal points of view. Love and Peace always.

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4 minutes ago, SO1 said:

Sorry, its a totally different context. I don't want to discuss this aspect of Celtic with you as we come from different anecdotal points of view. Love and Peace always.

It's not really, taking the money and sums out of it he was gung ho towards the end with transfers at Celtic and he was the same with much vaster sums at Liverpool with the Suarez money, latterly also.  The latter particularly is very much within context.

 

I think Rodgers is a great coach and would still rather he was in the Celtic job than any other manager on the planet but those are the facts.

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1 hour ago, Haywood_6 said:

image.thumb.png.69cb3ad31ba0ff69fdc1637983e5ed17.png

Found some interesting stats on FPL the other day. Doesn't make great reading for Barnes. 

I actually think those stats make great reading for Barnes. 40 shots from the wing in half a season is great, he was getting into some brilliant positions and then fluffing his lines.

 

We know he can finish - we’ve seen it in his half season at West Brom. Eventually his form in front of goal will revert to the mean and there’s everything to suggest he’s got a 10 goal top flight season in him.

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Just now, ttfn said:

I actually think those stats make great reading for Barnes. 40 shots from the wing in half a season is great, he was getting into some brilliant positions and then fluffing his lines.

 

We know he can finish - we’ve seen it in his half season at West Brom. Eventually his form in front of goal will revert to the mean and there’s everything to suggest he’s got a 10 goal top flight season in him.

He was terribly unlucky too, some great saves to stop him scoring and a few shots just hitting the bar (IIFC) 

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14 minutes ago, ttfn said:

I actually think those stats make great reading for Barnes. 40 shots from the wing in half a season is great, he was getting into some brilliant positions and then fluffing his lines.

 

We know he can finish - we’ve seen it in his half season at West Brom. Eventually his form in front of goal will revert to the mean and there’s everything to suggest he’s got a 10 goal top flight season in him.

From what I've seen Barnes done pretty well back end of last season so if he can improve this season and kick on he will be a big asset.  Stats can only tell you so much, those who watch a player for 90 minutes week in week out are better judges of whether a player, especially a young player is developing or not.

 

That 6 months in the EPL will have done him the world of good and he'll know what's in store and the levels he'll have to hit this season.

Edited by henrik_62
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30 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said:

He was terribly unlucky too, some great saves to stop him scoring and a few shots just hitting the bar (IIFC) 

 

Generous tbh. He should have been scoring, we know that, he knows that, Rodgers knew that hence him getting the odd dropping and shepherd's crook. 

 

@ttfn is spot on, he's got it in him and he gets in to terrific positions but his composure in front of goal must improve. 

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6 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Generous tbh. He should have been scoring, we know that, he knows that, Rodgers knew that hence him getting the odd dropping and shepherd's crook. 

 

@ttfn is spot on, he's got it in him and he gets in to terrific positions but his composure in front of goal must improve. 

He should have, and basically that's the bottom line, regardless of luck Its still good to acknowledge he has stepped up every year and this was his 1st 6 months in the EPL at a young age... 20/21.  Maybe i'm bias, but i think (hope?) he is going to be one of our stand-out players this season. 

 

The one thing i like about Barnes is he is always aiming to go forward with his head held up high and trying.. by no means the finished article but the intention is there. Don't you think?

 

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7 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said:

He should have, and basically that's the bottom line, regardless of luck Its still good to acknowledge he has stepped up every year and this was his 1st 6 months in the EPL at a young age... 20/21.  Maybe i'm bias, but i think (hope?) he is going to be one of our stand-out players this season. 

 

The one thing i like about Barnes is he is always aiming to go forward with his head held up high and trying.. by no means the finished article but the intention is there. Don't you think?

 

 

Oh I think he's got an enormous amount of promise and I hope he starts next season. I think ttfn and I agree he's got the makings of a great contributor of goals. 

 

I just think writing it off as bad luck is overlooking an area that needs work. 

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1 hour ago, Suzie the Fox said:

He was terribly unlucky too, some great saves to stop him scoring and a few shots just hitting the bar (IIFC) 

 

If I fink correctly? :huh:

 

50 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

The posts are too long on this page…. Keep it short and pithy please… :thumbup:

 

Pith off.

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It's quite simple for me, can we stretch another £30-50m by kicking some of the cost down the road to fund a next level winger this summer? If the answer is no, then sell Maguire and buy the said winger.

 

If we are going to get anywhere near the top 6 next we likely need another 20 goals. Perez will help us in adding to what we've already got and Tielemans for a full season will increase things, Barnes as well will likely improve but we could still increase our chances by getting a right winger who hits double figures for goals and assists most seasons. Losing Maguire wouldn't see us ship a significant amount of goals compared with him in it, but the funds to bring in more attacking talent will increase our goals scored. Next.

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