Brexit!

[Charl91]

7 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

 

 

No no no, that's the wrong will of the people!

 

We want the other will of the people! 

[HybridFox]

7 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

why dont we have a referendum on another referendum 

With the options Rock, Paper, Scissors.

[Rob1742]

12 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

You recall that treasury forecasts showed something like a 1-2% lower GDP over 30 years?  And that was on instructions from Cameron and Osborne.  

Saying to the public that Brexit will bring a lower GDP by 1-2% over 30 years.

 

We deserve detail on actual benefits for the people. Positive impact on certain industries, potential increase in jobs in areas where we should see growth due to the exit.

 

The population won’t get excited by a GDP figure, they want to know what actual benefits they will see.

 

 

[BlueSi13]

The remarkable thing is that this abject cowardice from Corbyn and Swinson may have made a no-deal on the 31st the more likely.  

 

Boris may now feel emboldened to either officially support the Lords filibustering the bill in the House of Lords or recommend that Royal Assent be denied or veto the extension in the EU.

 

The rebels have played an extremely risky game.  There is a lot more to play out here yet.  

[Rob1742]

One thing for sure, Putin will be rubbing his hands seeing us lose our close relationship with Europe. 

 

If we dont get a deal there will be clear conflict with Europe, and that will please Putin no end 

[Beechey]

5 minutes ago, Rob1742 said:

One thing for sure, Putin will be rubbing his hands seeing us lose our close relationship with Europe. 

 

If we dont get a deal there will be clear conflict with Europe, and that will please Putin no end 

Won't change much for Russia on a grand scale, really. The UK won't be leaving NATO, or stop intelligence sharing with European countries.

In fact, it's more likely that the UK will boost defence spending and be more active against Russia in order to show it's not retreating from the international community.

We've just seen a >£2bn increase in defence spending before we've even left.

 

To compound this, the EU will now move closer together, something Russia definitely won't like.

Edited 4 September 2019 by Beechey

[BlueSi13]

1 minute ago, Rob1742 said:

One thing for sure, Putin will be rubbing his hands seeing us lose our close relationship with Europe. 

 

If we dont get a deal there will be clear conflict with Europe, and that will please Putin no end 

Erm, we'll still be a member of NATO?  That's a rather silly suggestion Rob.

[Charl91]

7 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

The remarkable thing is that this abject cowardice from Corbyn and Swinson may have made a no-deal on the 31st the more likely.  

 

 

Abject cowardice?  

 

No, they made the logical decision. You can't call everything you disagree with 'abject cowardice'. Or is that the new 'project fear'?

 

[BlueSi13]

Just now, Charl91 said:

 

Abject cowardice?  

 

No, they made the logical decision. You can't call everything you disagree with 'abject cowardice'. Or is that the new 'project fear'?

 

2 years of screaming for an election and then running away from one because Corbyn knows he'll lose is cowardice.  No amount of spin will pull the wool over voters eyes on this one (especially the millions of Labour leave voters)

[Finnaldo]

1 minute ago, BlueSi13 said:

2 years of screaming for an election and then running away from one because Corbyn knows he'll lose is cowardice.  No amount of spin will pull the wool over voters eyes on this one (especially the millions of Labour leave voters)

 

That sounds an awful lot like not being a total moron

 

Come on lads I know Boris Johnson is Prime Minister but British politics can’t collectively stoop to his level

[The Guvnor]

What a bizarre night last night, JRM forgetting he was in the HOC and not on his Chaise lounge at home,  he is an extremely erudite individual and made Burkecow squirm, so brownie points for that but it was like watching a parody of the Leader of the house.

Then Corbyn saying he wanted a GE bring it on asap, then John Healey confirming what Cornyn said and it wasn't until the Leader of the Labour Party Keir Starmer had a word in their ear that they changed their minds.

What a fvuking shambles this lot are and what will top off all this madness is when after all the political shenanigans culminating in this bill which has tried to prevent Boris from leaving the EU without a deal, he has to ask for an extension and they say  'No' 

Now that would be fcuking hilarious.

[Charl91]

15 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

2 years of screaming for an election and then running away from one because Corbyn knows he'll lose is cowardice.  No amount of spin will pull the wool over voters eyes on this one (especially the millions of Labour leave voters)

 

You very well know that it's because he wants the bill to stop no-deal to go through first. I can pretty much guarantee he will be happy to have an election afterwards - I'd be willing to put money on it.

 

As I've said many times on this forum, I am no Corbyn fan. But c'mon, it's pretty obvious really - the only really Boris 'I don't want an election' Johnson suddenly wants an election is to stop this bill to go through. Why do exactly what Boris wants him to do? That would be pretty foolish. Better to wait a month and have an election on his terms.

 

 

[BlueSi13]

6 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

 

You very well know that it's because he wants the bill to stop no-deal to go through first. I can pretty much guarantee he will be happy to have an election afterwards - I'd be willing to put money on it.

 

As I've said many times on this forum, I am no Corbyn fan. But c'mon, it's pretty obvious really - the only really Boris 'I don't want an election' Johnson suddenly wants an election is to stop this bill to go through. Why do exactly what Boris wants him to do? That would be pretty foolish. Better to wait a month and have an election on his terms.

 

 

The problem is that it doesn't make a difference.  This bill does not take no-deal off the table, rather it just kicks the can further down the road with another pointless extension.  

 

If/When Boris wins a majority he can just take us out however he wishes.  

 

The only way no-deal truly gets taken off the table is by a change in government via a General Election.  

 

In other news Lords now in full filibustering mode.  Going to be a box office few days:

 

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3ee21ab2-8e9e-4ea5-aa0c-ee785b88212c

Edited 4 September 2019 by BlueSi13

[Charl91]

6 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

The problem is that it doesn't make a difference.  This bill does not take no-deal off the table, rather it just kicks the can further down the road with another pointless extension.  

 

No, but what it does do is stops Boris from scheduling an election in an opportunistic manner so that we end up leaving without a deal anyway.

 

It's basically become a necessity because he's proven to be so untrustworthy.

[BlueSi13]

2 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

 

No, but what it does do is stops Boris from scheduling an election in an opportunistic manner so that we end up leaving without a deal anyway.

 

It's basically become a necessity because he's proven to be so untrustworthy.

We'll agree to disagree but I really don't see how it can be seen as opportunistic considering the events of this week.  I see it as him having no choice. 

[Charl91]

3 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

We'll agree to disagree but I really don't see how it can be seen as opportunistic considering the events of this week.  I see it as him having no choice. 

 

The whole events of this week have happened because of Boris having shown he's willing to take an underhanded and undemocratic approach (eg. proroguing parliament), to try and force through a no-deal Brexit without consent of parliament. Boris has essentially forced parliament's hand; this is a problem of his own making. 

 

Given that Boris has made no headway in negotiations with the EU, I can only assume his intention is to deliberately go out without a deal. There is no majority for a no-deal Brexit in parliament, and there is also no majority for a no-deal Brexit in the country either. It cannot in good faith be argued that what Boris Johnson is doing is democratic. I invite you to think about whether you would feel the same if the roles were reversed, and it were Corbyn who was taking similar actions.

[Legend_in_blue]

As Ken Clarke said earlier, his GE campaign will reek of I tried my upmost to get Brexit done, but parliamentarians blocked it against the democratic will of the people etc etc.  Worrying thing is, he'll have people buying into it.  

 

There is no deal to be done, he's negotiating nothing, he's forced this situation upon himself.  His game is up.  Totally out of his depth.

[BlueSi13]

12 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

 

The whole events of this week have happened because of Boris having shown he's willing to take an underhanded and undemocratic approach (eg. proroguing parliament), to try and force through a no-deal Brexit without consent of parliament. Boris has essentially forced parliament's hand; this is a problem of his own making. 

 

Given that Boris has made no headway in negotiations with the EU, I can only assume his intention is to deliberately go out without a deal. There is no majority for a no-deal Brexit in parliament, and there is also no majority for a no-deal Brexit in the country either. It cannot in good faith be argued that what Boris Johnson is doing is democratic. I invite you to think about whether you would feel the same if the roles were reversed, and it were Corbyn who was taking similar actions.

Bit like how the remainers in parliament have shown how they are willing to consistently take a similarly underhanded and undemocratic approach to reversing the 2016 referendum.  Two can play at that game and those voting against the government trying to claim some sort of morale high ground is absolutely hilarious quite frankly.  

 

It's also funny how remainers accuse Boris of wanting no deal and therefore won't support him, and yet the Brexit Party believe he wants a deal and are unwilling to form an electoral pact with him because of it.  Both can't be right.

 

Either way that's enough politics for me tonight, have a nice evening 

Edited 4 September 2019 by BlueSi13

[HighPeakFox]

This is remarkably civil, given the subject matter. I wish you all well.

[ozleicester]

Politics worldwide is laughable

[peach0000]

The one thing I've not seen discussed is surely the EU has to agree to an extension? I'm sure I've read in the past that certain eu leaders (Macron?) plan to veto any extension.

[Buce]

8 hours ago, bovril said:

W - 0

L - 4

 

Bozo out!

 

8 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

It’s **** all time mate.  Not the crashing out disaster we keep hearing about!

 

That was just regarding one issue (hold-ups in customs) and was the opinion of one man (which is contrary to the opinion of everybody else in the retail world).

[Buce]

 

Lords rule out filibustering over the Brexit Bill:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/05/brexit-lords-agree-to-push-through-bill-preventing-no-deal-by-end-of-friday

[stripeyfox]

I'm sick of these self serving aresholes. BoJo has styled himself as this likeable bafoon all these years but it looks more and more untrustworthy and disingenuous every time I see him shaking his head in the Commons. JRM just looks like a pantomime villain. Corbyn just want to string out his own position for as long as possible.

 

I voted to Remain and would do so again if I had the opportunity but we really need Parliament to decide what the fork we need to do - either in or out and get on with it. 

 

 

[st albans fox]

As was said soon after the vote - there ain’t likely to be any easy answers to this .....Gina miller and her team screwed us over re any ‘clean outcome’ (whether democratic or not) and that merely made sure we definitely wouldn’t leave whilst parliament was hung. 

 

i think corbyn will be unable unable to stop a GE (he can’t run away forever) - a GE on 31/10 would be very symbolic from boris’ perspective as Europe would have to give some kind of extension well before that 

 

cannot conceive of anything other than a messy hung outcome unless Farage swallows his pride and backs the Tories - otherwise he risks a second ref and no brexit at all (mind you, that keeps him relevant for years to come and you know how egotists work ........)