FT General Election Poll 2019

[twoleftfeet]

whilst some of labours policies are on the face of it attractive its the cost that worries me

Better funded NHS yes we all want that but just because something is run as not for profit doesn't make it efficient and offer best value for money.

More police sure we could do with more police but what do the courts do with the criminals when they are arrest charged and found guilty.

The freeze on pension age with the raising of average leaving age from full time education to 19.8 after new labour wanted at least 50% of kids to go to uni and people living longer the time for the average joe to contribute to a pension is less by about 4 to 5 years.

Free university tuition still going to end up with the debt for living expenses and tbh the majority of the money that student finance dish out will never ever be paid back its more a shifting of the cost being budgeted for in the future to now.

Free bus travel to for under 25's you all ready get aged over 65 so if you live to 81 you will have had more of your life time getting free travel than paying for it if they introduce the minimum wage for all ages then why the need for free travel for some and not all?

£10 minimum wage great we will all get a pay rise as the needs to be parity in the work place  why would a skilled person work for the same wage as an unskilled worker current average wage £26500 pa minimum wage £19760 pa. this will just cause inflation.

4 Day working week do we get paid less per week  so  £15600 pa (minimum wage for 30 @ £10ph ) instead of £16009 pa (minimum wage for 37.5 hours @ £8.21) so potentially less money per week with 1 extra days of time to filled after all the teacher work week will be cut too and the doctors  where are the extra people coming from to fill the time in the services. 20% more Doctors, Nurses, Teachers and Police officers  will be needed.  

Free broadband for all well not really free just paid for by everyone whether they use it or not just like the BBC. Taxing large corporations they will just move the profit base to a lower taxable nation in Europe, which is what they already do, stopping this being allowed will take all the nations to agree including those that benefit from allowing these corporations to get away with it Good luck (not saying that they shouldn't pay their fair share just it will be impossible to do so at present.

 

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

48 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

It amply demonstrates that simply saying Zimbabwe and Venezuela over and over again is not a cogent argument against targeted increased public spending. And it demonstrates that Labour's plan is not as extreme as is being made out (shock).

 

Why are you so opposed to big business paying their fair share of tax? Seems pretty unpatriotic to back the likes of Google and Amazon in mugging us off to be honest.

Honeslty I am not averse to increased public spending in many areas; the NHS and shools in particualr both need more resources, but they also need to use them more effectively.  We need a proper social care policy, and much better provision of mental health care. I am pleased to see the Conservatives finally ending austerity about 5 years too late.  Without Brexit and with a sensible opposition I think we might well be due a Labour Government right now.  I have said many times that we need a bit of both over time to keep us on the right track - especially as the centre ground seems to be less popular with both sides.

 

We also however need a thriving economy to pay for it, and I fear that Labour's plans will have the opopsite effect to what the intend.

• Increasing corporation tax will most likely have either little effect on the tax revenues or reduce them, as has been shown over the past 15 years.
• They want to put the burden on the higher paid - fine, but the reality is that many of their policies will not have that affect.  5% increase in public sector pay will have an inflationary effect on pay everywhere; Windfall tax on oild companies will be passed on to those of us fuelling cars (and buses), and trucks which we all pay for in the price of goods.
• They plan to nationalise a whole tranch of industries, with nothing in their manifesto about how; they also keep coming up with new ones.  This will damage confidence of investors in our economy, and that means fewer jobs.
• Minimum wage increases for under 21s will mean it becomes harder for kids to find work.

I am not opposed to big business paying tax at all, but I am also very aware that there are myriad ways corporations manage their effective tax rate which mean one country alone increasing it's Corporation tax levels can be counter productive.  And again, in a world where capital can and does move around freely, returns will be maintained, and the consumer picks up the tab again.

I don't mind their plan for an online sales tax, but again you need to realise this hits the poorest most before you get took excited - and for what?  Propping up failing high street shops in the face of changing buying habits.

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, EnderbyFox said:

Just wow. 

 

"I'm not even in the top 50%" 

I can tell you that in the South-East, £80k doesn't feel vaguely rich.  Let alone £125k making your super rich ffs.

 

Edited 22 November 2019 by Jon the Hat

[Bobby Hundreds]

6 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I can tell you that in the South-East, £80k doesn't feel vaguely rich.  Let alone £125k making your super rich ffs.

 

But the facts are that people who earn >=£70k are the top 5% of the UK working popn, https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax despite what they think about it.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

Isn't that the point?  The articel says they want to remove the weeks limit, which is already bloody high in the UK imo.

But it isn't true, as @Bobby Hundreds has elaborated on.

 

Religious fundies of whatever stripe have had the power to legislate morality for other people for way too long. That they are finally losing that power in a few places should hardly be "socially controversial", as Matt puts it.

[ozleicester]

28 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I can tell you that in the South-East, £80k doesn't feel vaguely rich.  Let alone £125k making your super rich ffs.

 

[Babylon]

3 hours ago, EnderbyFox said:

 

 

Just wow. 

 

"I'm not even in the top 50%" 

Probably won't be earning over £80k a year for much longer when his employer sees him unable to grasp some basic facts 

[Carl the Llama]

21 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I can tell you that in the South-East, £80k doesn't feel vaguely rich.  Let alone £125k making your super rich ffs.

 

Entitled statement of the day.

[Babylon]

36 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I can tell you that in the South-East, £80k doesn't feel vaguely rich.  Let alone £125k making your super rich ffs.

 

You need a better financial advisor then. 

[Carl the Llama]

Genuinely can't get my head around this £80k poor person lark.  If you can't make ends meet on £80k wtf are you still supporting the Tories who made that scenario possible for?

[ozleicester]

[FerrisBueller]

Did i seriously just read '80k a year isn't even that much'? 

[bovril]

6 minutes ago, FerrisBueller said:

Did i seriously just read '80k a year isn't even that much'? 

He just wanted to tell people how much he earns. 

[Facecloth]

50 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I can tell you that in the South-East, £80k doesn't feel vaguely rich.  Let alone £125k making your super rich ffs.

 

You know when people like you (not necessarily you) say people who claim to be poor shouldn't have iphones and 50 inch TV, if they have them they aren't poor. Well if you're not feeling rich earning £80k, you should cut back. You could have smaller, cheaper house, you could have an older car, you could go on cheaper holidays. You can live a reasonable life on £80k a year and still have more than most people, but you choose not to, and make no bones about it, you are richer than someone earning £12k or £15k or £20k that spends the little they earn on a big TV or new phone to help them enjoy their drab existence. 

[David Guiza]

Not sure about the new the Tory striptease. 

 

 

Also:-

 

 

 

Edited 22 November 2019 by David Guiza

[Koke]

£80000 a year is £1600 a week. That guy said he's not even in the top 50% earners in UK. Also, what accountants does he knows that earns more than £80k. 

[Mike Oxlong]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

I can tell you that in the South-East, £80k doesn't feel vaguely rich.  Let alone £125k making your super rich ffs.

 

https://i.gifer.com/9JZ.gif

[Bryn]

I don't think people earning 5 figure salaries or even low 6 figures should be the target. I suspect they probably pay the largest proportion of their income in tax and other deductions. Millionaires and above, people who can afford multiple homes, big businesses and people avoiding tax, they should be the targets. 

[Tommo220]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

Honeslty I am not averse to increased public spending in many areas; the NHS and shools in particualr both need more resources, but they also need to use them more effectively.  We need a proper social care policy, and much better provision of mental health care. I am pleased to see the Conservatives finally ending austerity about 5 years too late.  Without Brexit and with a sensible opposition I think we might well be due a Labour Government right now.  I have said many times that we need a bit of both over time to keep us on the right track - especially as the centre ground seems to be less popular with both sides.

 

We also however need a thriving economy to pay for it, and I fear that Labour's plans will have the opopsite effect to what the intend.

• Increasing corporation tax will most likely have either little effect on the tax revenues or reduce them, as has been shown over the past 15 years.
• They want to put the burden on the higher paid - fine, but the reality is that many of their policies will not have that affect.  5% increase in public sector pay will have an inflationary effect on pay everywhere; Windfall tax on oild companies will be passed on to those of us fuelling cars (and buses), and trucks which we all pay for in the price of goods.
• They plan to nationalise a whole tranch of industries, with nothing in their manifesto about how; they also keep coming up with new ones.  This will damage confidence of investors in our economy, and that means fewer jobs.
• Minimum wage increases for under 21s will mean it becomes harder for kids to find work.

I am not opposed to big business paying tax at all, but I am also very aware that there are myriad ways corporations manage their effective tax rate which mean one country alone increasing it's Corporation tax levels can be counter productive.  And again, in a world where capital can and does move around freely, returns will be maintained, and the consumer picks up the tab again.

I don't mind their plan for an online sales tax, but again you need to realise this hits the poorest most before you get took excited - and for what?  Propping up failing high street shops in the face of changing buying habits.

Oil will continue to be priced on the global market so i cant see the cost being passed on to the consumer - the only thing this will do is deter further investment in North Sea oil and gas.  it makes a bit of a mockery of the subsidies that NS Oil and Gas companies get though - give them a subsidy in one hand, and take if back off them in a windfall tax from the other..... Nice.

 

And lets face it, the conservatives are deterring overseas investment just as much as labour at the minute.  I mean who's bright idea was it to increase stamp duty for overseas purchasers?! Especially at a time when money is flooding in to the country from overseas purchasers who are (quite literally) propping up the housing market in London at the minute.  When did Money from overseas become a bad thing for the conservatives!?

 

I'm convinced both Labour and Conservatives are doing their best to throw the election.

 

 

[Babylon]

5 minutes ago, Bryn said:

I don't think people earning 5 figure salaries or even low 6 figures should be the target. I suspect they probably pay the largest proportion of their income in tax and other deductions. Millionaires and above, people who can afford multiple homes, big businesses and people avoiding tax, they should be the targets. 

If I earn't £4500 a month after tax, I'd have multiple homes and be well on my way to being a millionaire. You're doing something wrong if you aren't. 

[Facecloth]

12 minutes ago, Koke said:

£80000 a year is £1600 a week. That guy said he's not even in the top 50% earners in UK. Also, what accountants does he knows that earns more than £80k. 

It's a take home of £4244.65 a month. Vast majority of people aren't getting anywhere near that before they pay tax. If you're struggling on that, wherever you live in the UK, you need to sort your shit out.

 

If you earn £80k a year you're paying more in PAYE that someone working 40 hours a week on minimum wage earns before paying any tax. Your deductions are more than some peoples pre tax wage. Absolutely nuts to think they aren't rich. 

[Tommo220]

Just now, Babylon said:

If I earn't £4500 a month after tax, I'd have multiple homes and be well on my way to being a millionaire. You're doing something wrong if you aren't. 

£4.5k/month is "only" £81k/year.  if you factor in the cost of living in London/south east and the cost of housing especially, if you have a mortgage and a couple of kids i doubt you'd have a lot of change left over at the end of the month from netting £4.5k/month - i mean a £500k mortgage on a £600k run of the mill flat in the city is going to run you to £2k a month alone.

 

(i realise that "only £81k" is a lot of money)

[Facecloth]

2 minutes ago, Tommo220 said:

£4.5k/month is "only" £81k/year.  if you factor in the cost of living in London/south east and the cost of housing especially, if you have a mortgage and a couple of kids i doubt you'd have a lot of change left over at the end of the month from netting £4.5k/month - i mean a £500k mortgage on a £600k run of the mill flat in the city is going to run you to £2k a month alone.

 

(i realise that "only £81k" is a lot of money)

So how do you think the person earning £20k a month in London/South East feels? Suck it up, you're earning a **** ton more than most. Don't like it, move out of London/South East, commute in. Or better still get a job as cleaner on minimum and see how you cope. 

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

It's a take home of £4244.65 a month. Vast majority of people aren't getting anywhere near that before they pay tax. If you're struggling on that, wherever you live in the UK, you need to sort your shit out.

 

If you earn £80k a year you're paying more in PAYE that someone working 40 hours a week on minimum wage earns before paying any tax. Your deductions are more than some peoples pre tax wage. Absolutely nuts to think they aren't rich. 

Problem is, and it comes back to financial mismanagement again. I know a few lads who earn that through work, they spend money like it's nothing. Range Rover for him and his Mrs £1200 a month. Massive 5 bed house with two people knocking about it in, Mortgage £1600+. Suddenly they are half way through their monthly income and they haven't even started buying their 8000k watch on tick, or their £2000 handbags etc. 

 

There will be some that feel exceptionally well off and others who feel like they have nothing at the end of the month. 

[Bryn]

One has to strike a balance between making higher earners pay their way and incentivising success though. I don't think take home pay per month in the thousands is obscene wealth. Its very comfortable for sure but I'm not sure that's the level that warrants being hit hard. You're talking about headteachers, consultants, very senior nurses, engineers, architects, successful smaller business owners and that kind of thing at that level, we should be rewarding people who reach towards those levels.

 

Corporations with turnovers of several hundred million pounds a year who pay minimal tax, individuals who earn a recordable proportion of a multi million pound enterprise, people driving up costs in the housing market by hoovering up houses, people taking home tens of thousands a month and people avoiding paying the appropriate amount of tax, this is far more of an issue. That's where we should be taxing hard to level the playing field for those at the other end of the scale.