Starmer Next Labour Leader

[Matt_Lcfc]

Seems to be a differing view on Starmer. For what it’s worth, I think Starmer is a decent leader and will serve Labour well. People may not like this, but the reality is that Labour will only win a general election by being centrist, Starmer is a Tony Blair figure, what you might call a Third Way Socialist and not a racial socialist, like his predecessor Corbyn. His main targets should be to get rid off the Corbynites in the party and start appealing to the young by not just throwing money at education or healthcare. It may come to a surprise that Corbyn was not popular amongst the young and was only voted for through gritted teeth. Starmer gives me a fresh sense off optimism.

Edited 6 April 2020 by Matt_Lcfc

[Jon the Hat]

On 04/04/2020 at 23:13, The Horse's Mouth said:

This is beyond depressing, this geezer is an absolute mug. I voted Long Bailey but saying that it wasnt tough amongst the shite. 

Long Bailey comes across as actually thick.  At least Starmer is clever.

[Jon the Hat]

Edstone Milliband back in the shadow cabinet for his lifelong expertise in Business.  Oh.

[Facecloth]

6 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Edstone Milliband back in the shadow cabinet for his lifelong expertise in Business.  Oh.

Because all ministers and shadow ministers have a history in the field they become ministers in 

Edited 6 April 2020 by Facecloth

[SpacedX]

 

[Dahnsouff]

14 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Long Bailey comes across as actually thick.  At least Starmer is clever.

Also she is part of the "way too left to be appealing to the majority" set.....probably...

[The whole world smiles]

20 minutes ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Seems to be a differing view on Starmer. For what it’s worth, I think Starmer is a decent leader and will serve Labour well. People may not like this, but the reality is that Labour will only win a general election by being centrist, Starmer is a Tony Blair figure, what you might call a Third Way Socialist and not a racial socialist, like his predecessor Corbyn. His main targets should be to get rid off the Corbynites in the party and start appealing to the young by not just throwing money at education or healthcare. It may come to a surprise that Corbyn was not popular amongst the young and was only voted for through gritted teeth. Starmer gives me a fresh sense off optimism.

whats this based on? Labour did about 55% with the under 30s (up a whopping 20% on soft left Milliband and centerist Brown in 2015 and 2010) and the tories did about 22% (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-election). if the young were that turned off and wanted a centrist they could have voted Lib (who got about 11% of the under 30 vote). 

 

Labour face many, many challenges. But being too radical for young people certainly isn't one of them.

[Voll Blau]

29 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Because all ministers and shadow ministers have a history in the field they become ministers in 

Quite. Guess he should burn his Masters in economics from the LSE too. Absolutely ten a penny, those things...

[Matt_Lcfc]

10 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

whats this based on? Labour did about 55% with the under 30s (up a whopping 20% on soft left Milliband and centerist Brown in 2015 and 2010) and the tories did about 22% (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-election). if the young were that turned off and wanted a centrist they could have voted Lib (who got about 11% of the under 30 vote). 

 

Labour face many, many challenges. But being too radical for young people certainly isn't one of them.

Statistically yes, in reality, no. Corbyn was only voted for by the young in this election because off how weak the conservatives were, not by his own aptitude as a politician.

[Desabafar]

25 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Quite. Guess he should burn his Masters in economics from the LSE too. Absolutely ten a penny, those things...

aren't these masters degrees just about who can pay for them

[StanSP]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

Edstone Milliband back in the shadow cabinet for his lifelong expertise in Business.  Oh.

Matt Hancock - secretary of state for health & social care. Before politics, he was an economist at the bank of England. So much for a lifelong expertise in healthcare. Oh. 

 

Gavin Williamson - secretary of state for education. His background? MD of a fireplace manufacturer and a pottery manufacturer. 

 

Come on @Jon the Hat you are better than that and should know as @Facecloth said that not everyone who gets appointed in these kinds of positions has to or does have a background in that specific field. A flaw in the system? Perhaps. A stick to beat someone with? I don't think so. 

[Jon the Hat]

34 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Quite. Guess he should burn his Masters in economics from the LSE too. Absolutely ten a penny, those things...

Business leaders are renowned for having nothing but respect for those who go straight from academia into media and then politics.  I'm sure it will be fine.

 

Still lets face it he is major upgrade on the idiots Corbyn put in his shadow cabinet.

[Jon the Hat]

5 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Matt Hancock - secretary of state for health & social care. Before politics, he was an economist at the bank of England. So much for a lifelong expertise in healthcare. Oh. 

 

Gavin Williamson - secretary of state for education. His background? MD of a fireplace manufacturer and a pottery manufacturer. 

 

Come on @Jon the Hat you are better than that and should know as @Facecloth said that not everyone who gets appointed in these kinds of positions has to or does have a background in that specific field. A flaw in the system? Perhaps. A stick to beat someone with? I don't think so. 

Definitley a flaw of sorts imo, but then we don't attract ebough poeple from some fields into Politics, whereas plenty seem to go from commercial fields into politics.

[harpendenfox]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

Long Bailey comes across as actually thick.  At least Starmer is clever.

Starmer is extremely clever. RLB may come across as thick to you, but I can assure you that is far from being the case

[bovril]

22 minutes ago, Desabafar said:

aren't these masters degrees just about who can pay for them

Money helps, along with a decent command of punctuation. 

[David Hankey]

The good news in all of this is that finally after a long drawn process Corbyn has gone. Unfortunately, because of Coronavirus we can't go to the pub and celebrate.

[Kopfkino]

40 minutes ago, Desabafar said:

aren't these masters degrees just about who can pay for them

 MSc Econ from the LSE is probably only matched by a handful of unis in the world in terms of prestige, albeit yeah you need some cash to do it.

 

Albeit it wasn't for Econ or finance but you do have to wonder about the riff raff the LSE does let in given they watched me barely manage the bare minimum for a few years and still extended a postgrad offer.

[rachhere]

46 minutes ago, Desabafar said:

aren't these masters degrees just about who can pay for them

A positive step that has come in is that you can now get loans to study for Masters courses. When I did mine I had to self fund through a career development loan, and worked two jobs the following year to pay off the repayments - I would definitely have preferred it this new way as that year which followed was particularly stressful! 

[Kopfkino]

Anyway, I'm not sure why anybody would think Ed Miliband isn't a good choice to shadow BEIS. As noted, you don't have to have that background to be a minister or even a successful minister but he has a somewhat relevant background. But the point is, there's been a waining of intellectual powerhouses in prominent parts of both main parties over recent years so it's good that is returning. Politics in this country needs people like Ed Miliband (yeah he wasn't a leader) at the forefront of politics and the discussion as a whole.

 

Whilst I don't expect Starmer to be electorally successful, he will at least ensure the opposition is an effective opposition as demonstrated by most of these appointments and that is good because it should spur the government on to be better and not lazy.

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

Edstone Milliband back in the shadow cabinet for his lifelong expertise in Business.  Oh.

Long Bailey comes across as actually thick.  At least Starmer is clever.

yeah i see your point proper clever

[The whole world smiles]

1 hour ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Statistically yes, in reality, no. Corbyn was only voted for by the young in this election because off how weak the conservatives were, not by his own aptitude as a politician.

This wasn't the first election he fought in 2017 he had an even greater percentage of the young vote. see these statistics https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/06/08/general-election-2015-how-britain-really-voted

 

we are not arguing about his aptitude as a politician. we are arguing about his popularity amongst young people and your unsubstantiated claim that he wasn't that popular amongst young people. In fact Corbyn's labour has been far more popular electorally with the under 30's than any other labour leader of the last 25 years including Blair in 1997. see these stats for 1997 voting by age https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-1997 

 

I look forward to you countering these statistics with more personal opinion.

Edited 6 April 2020 by The whole world smiles

[Matt_Lcfc]

15 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

This wasn't the first election he fought in 2017 he had an even greater percentage of the young vote. see these statistics https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/06/08/general-election-2015-how-britain-really-voted

 

we are not arguing about his aptitude as a politician. we are arguing about his popularity amongst young people and your unsubstantiated claim that he wasn't that popular amongst young people. In fact Corbyn's labour has been far more popular electorally with the under 30's than any other labour leader of the last 25 years including Blair in 1997. see these stats for 1997 voting by age https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-1997 

 

I look forward to you countering these statistics with more personal opinion.

If you really think that there is a demand for ACTUAL radical socialism amongst the young you’re wrong. The fault of the Conservative party and no decent third party explains why Labour received the young vote in both 2017 and 2019. Additionally, Labour were also able to use social media effectively in both campaigns on platforms such as Twitter and Instagram (which younger people interacted with). Basing your campaign primarily on younger people and using social media to do so does not make him more popular, that’s different. I’m sure if social media was so widely-used in 1997, Tony Blair would have had similar / more of the younger vote. But yeah, you keep using your YouGov stats!

Edited 6 April 2020 by Matt_Lcfc

[Kopfkino]

18 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

This wasn't the first election he fought in 2017 he had an even greater percentage of the young vote. see these statistics https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/06/08/general-election-2015-how-britain-really-voted

 

we are not arguing about his aptitude as a politician. we are arguing about his popularity amongst young people and your unsubstantiated claim that he wasn't that popular amongst young people. In fact Corbyn's labour has been far more popular electorally with the under 30's than any other labour leader of the last 25 years including Blair in 1997. see these stats for 1997 voting by age https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-1997 

 

I look forward to you countering these statistics with more personal opinion.

 

But Labour's vote isn't solely a function of enthusiasm for its leader at the time. That 54-56% of U30s that voted cast their vote for Labour is not really proof that U30s were enthusiastic for Corbyn. 

[Jon the Hat]

Forget Milliband; Lammy “police lied about Grenfel death numbers” for shadow Justice Secretary.  FFS.

[Ian Norman Droid]

Good news having Starmar as leader of the opposition just when we need thorough scrutiny of government action. Also the right thing to come straight out to say he'd support good government initiatives and question the bad ones. Exactly what is needed. All parties in recent years seem to have misunderstood that being honest might actually win them greater support, even where that honesty is saying the other party has done something right. Seems to have put forward quite a strong team to support him too. Lammy and RLB not so much for me but on the whole stacks up very, very well compared to the other front bench.