Starmer Next Labour Leader

[The Fox Covert]

One thing Starmer needs to get on board quickly is to demand much greater accountability from government while Parliament is unable to sit at Westminster.

There is no reason why the Parliamentary Select Committees cannot continue their business by video conferencing.

There is also no reason why a system of indicative remote voting could not be introduced.

The Scottish government at Holyrood is also not in session but the processes of government and decision making there are much more transparent.

Some of the Tories, in particular Priti Patel, have been very reluctant to engage in the normal parliamentary process and have been able to avoid scrutiny simply by not attending meetings.

At the moment we seem to have government by a small inner cabinet and the normal process of democracy is suspended.

[Finnaldo]

3 hours ago, Strokes said:

I see a few people attack Matt in this way and yet are quite happy to let multiple people do exactly the same thing against the tories with no challenge.

Pot bloody kettle.

As Mac pointed out, whilst outspoken on his opinions is one of the more softly spoken members of the board and very rarely if ever insults another member yet Matt said he had ‘Trump Derangement Syndrome’.

 

I also don’t think it’s up to other members to police their ideological peers unless they’re being completely out of order. I’d say I probably agree in pure political terms with toddybad than you or Matt, yet I don’t agree with how he argues certain points. But I’m not a party whip, I’m sure you or Matt will argue his point and I won’t flagrantly defend him, but I don’t personally know the bloke and it’s not up to me or any other left-leaner on here to ‘correct’ him. 
 

But Swan has a point, for how intelligent Matt can be, he shows an outstanding bias and I don’t think it’s exactly surprising it’s the side who he critiques at every opportunity, big or small, call him out loudest on it. For how much we saw Matt drag up Corbyn’s IRA & Palestine links (fairly) yet when discussing Priti Patel, I’m yet to see Matt do a deep dive on her unsanctioned meeting(s) with Israel, in fact he seems to defend her tooth and nail from the fact the Home Secretary hasn’t been seen in a time of interior crisis and makes dismissive jokes instead. 

Edited 13 April 2020 by Finnaldo

[Bilo]

In other news, there's going to be a minute's applause for Priti Patel tonight at seventy past eleventeen.

[Strokes]

20 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

As Mac pointed out, whilst outspoken on his opinions is one of the more softly spoken members of the board and very rarely if ever insults another member yet Matt said he had ‘Trump Derangement Syndrome’.

 

I also don’t think it’s up to other members to police their ideological peers unless they’re being completely out of order. I’d say I probably agree in pure political terms with toddybad than you or Matt, yet I don’t agree with how he argues certain points. But I’m not a party whip, I’m sure you or Matt will argue his point and I won’t flagrantly defend him, but I don’t personally know the bloke and it’s not up to me or any other left-leaner on here to ‘correct’ him. 
 

But Swan has a point, for how intelligent Matt can be, he shows an outstanding bias and I don’t think it’s exactly surprising it’s the side who he critiques at every opportunity, big or small, call him out loudest on it. For how much we saw Matt drag up Corbyn’s IRA & Palestine links (fairly) yet when discussing Priti Patel, I’m yet to see Matt do a deep dive on her unsanctioned meeting(s) with Israel, in fact he seems to defend her tooth and nail from the fact the Home Secretary hasn’t been seen in a time of interior crisis and makes dismissive jokes instead. 

Personally I’d rather we all just stopped calling out peoples bias, without acknowledging our own.

We all have it, It’s harder to find the balanced posters than the unbalanced ones, people seem to enjoy the singling out malarkey, like their shit don’t stink.

I’d much rather have a hostile debate with @Toddybad and @MooseBreath’s latest incarnation, where we all know our own bias. Than the mollycoddled, edited threads that occur now. With people treading on eggshells to avoid bans. Then still getting them.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, The Fox Covert said:

One thing Starmer needs to get on board quickly is to demand much greater accountability from government while Parliament is unable to sit at Westminster.

There is no reason why the Parliamentary Select Committees cannot continue their business by video conferencing.

There is also no reason why a system of indicative remote voting could not be introduced.

The Scottish government at Holyrood is also not in session but the processes of government and decision making there are much more transparent.

Some of the Tories, in particular Priti Patel, have been very reluctant to engage in the normal parliamentary process and have been able to avoid scrutiny simply by not attending meetings.

At the moment we seem to have government by a small inner cabinet and the normal process of democracy is suspended.

Im pretty sure that they were doing this after parliament was ‘locked down’ .....

[Kopfkino]

36 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Personally I’d rather we all just stopped calling out peoples bias, without acknowledging our own.

We all have it, It’s harder to find the balanced posters than the unbalanced ones, people seem to enjoy the singling out malarkey, like their shit don’t stink.

I’d much rather have a hostile debate with @Toddybad and @MooseBreath’s latest incarnation, where we all know our own bias. Than the mollycoddled, edited threads that occur now. With people treading on eggshells to avoid bans. Then still getting them.

Quite. The asymmetric calling out of bias is far more tedious than the bias itself. 

 

As soon as toddy gets involved in any sort of debate, the mods rush to shut it down for absolutely no reason. This morning's virus thread was case in point where essentially the discussion was about the trade offs of lockdown that toddy viewed it differently to others and all the posts get deleted. Same happened a couple of weeks ago when he got his temporary GC ban for no reason. He can be as much of a nob as anyone else but no idea why anytime there's a bit of a discussion involving him the stasi swoop. 

Edited 13 April 2020 by Kopfkino

[UpTheLeagueFox]

5 hours ago, MattP said:

Some outrageous stuff in this leaked Labour report  https://novaramedia.com/2020/04/12/its-going-to-be-a-long-night-how-members-of-labours-senior-management-campaigned-to-lose/

 

4 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

Do you just scour the internet every day to find stuff, however old to satisfy your hatred of the left? It’s a bit weird Matt tbh. 

It's been one of the top trending topics on Twitter since late afternoon yesterday so Matt wasn't exactly having to scour too deep into the internet.

[Foxin_Mad]

10 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Quite. The asymmetric calling out of bias is far more tedious than the bias itself. 

 

As soon as toddy gets involved in any sort of debate, the mods rush to shut it down for absolutely no reason. This morning's virus thread was case in point where essentially the discussion was about the trade offs of lockdown that toddy viewed it differently to others and all the posts get deleted. Same happened a couple of weeks ago when he got his temporary GC ban for no reason. He can be as much of a nob as anyone else but no idea why anytime there's a bit of a discussion involving him the stasi swoop. 

I actually think @Toddybadis most a mosty intelligent and well reasoned poster, have a lot of time and respect for his viewpoints and others those of other - I dont always agree with them and it's actually good that we dont all agree in some echo chamber. Of course all people who believe strongly in something may occasionally get wound up and fly a bit of the handle! Normally these things are dealt with by those involved. Most people here are decent respectful people who want the best, we have different idea on how to get there.  Some of us maybe right or wrong  but none us us have the answer to everything.

[Strokes]

25 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Quite. The asymmetric calling out of bias is far more tedious than the bias itself. 

 

As soon as toddy gets involved in any sort of debate, the mods rush to shut it down for absolutely no reason. This morning's virus thread was case in point where essentially the discussion was about the trade offs of lockdown that toddy viewed it differently to others and all the posts get deleted. Same happened a couple of weeks ago when he got his temporary GC ban for no reason. He can be as much of a nob as anyone else but no idea why anytime there's a bit of a discussion involving him the stasi swoop. 

Case in point exactly, and was the motivation behind my post.

I rarely agree with toddy but I don’t see what he did wrong.

If they want to avoid politics in the corona thread, there are quite a few of us that should have been treated similar.

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

As Mac pointed out, whilst outspoken on his opinions is one of the more softly spoken members of the board and very rarely if ever insults another member yet Matt said he had ‘Trump Derangement Syndrome’.

 

I also don’t think it’s up to other members to police their ideological peers unless they’re being completely out of order. I’d say I probably agree in pure political terms with toddybad than you or Matt, yet I don’t agree with how he argues certain points. But I’m not a party whip, I’m sure you or Matt will argue his point and I won’t flagrantly defend him, but I don’t personally know the bloke and it’s not up to me or any other left-leaner on here to ‘correct’ him. 
 

But Swan has a point, for how intelligent Matt can be, he shows an outstanding bias and I don’t think it’s exactly surprising it’s the side who he critiques at every opportunity, big or small, call him out loudest on it. For how much we saw Matt drag up Corbyn’s IRA & Palestine links (fairly) yet when discussing Priti Patel, I’m yet to see Matt do a deep dive on her unsanctioned meeting(s) with Israel, in fact he seems to defend her tooth and nail from the fact the Home Secretary hasn’t been seen in a time of interior crisis and makes dismissive jokes instead. 

I don't like pressing the point but I think it is important so I'll do it anyway and leave it at that afterwards - this happens almost 100% with matters concerning Trump, too. As if everything he does is a laugh.

[Kopfkino]

2 hours ago, Strokes said:

Case in point exactly, and was the motivation behind my post.

I rarely agree with toddy but I don’t see what he did wrong.

If they want to avoid politics in the corona thread, there are quite a few of us that should have been treated similar.

 

Well apparently you can keep adding low value, low relevance posts about Priti Patel but you can't discuss the trade offs of lockdown.

[Carl the Llama]

2 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

I actually think @Toddybadis most a mosty intelligent and well reasoned poster, have a lot of time and respect for his viewpoints and others those of other - I dont always agree with them and it's actually good that we dont all agree in some echo chamber. Of course all people who believe strongly in something may occasionally get wound up and fly a bit of the handle! Normally these things are dealt with by those involved. Most people here are decent respectful people who want the best, we have different idea on how to get there.  Some of us maybe right or wrong  but none us us have the answer to everything.

2 hours ago, Strokes said:

Case in point exactly, and was the motivation behind my post.

I rarely agree with toddy but I don’t see what he did wrong.

If they want to avoid politics in the corona thread, there are quite a few of us that should have been treated similar.

I wasn't even aware of this going on, poor show. 

[Guest MattP]

The replies to this are mental. He really is Corbynistas public enemy no1 atm.

 

I bet you half the people slating him are the ones who defended John Bercow as well when he was criticised for his wife saying or doing things.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Lloyd Russell-Moyle promoted to Shadow Minister. I thought I recognised the name, this is the 'we'll fight them in the streets' bloke from the December election.

[Guesty]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Lloyd Russell-Moyle promoted to Shadow Minister. I thought I recognised the name, this is the 'we'll fight them in the streets' bloke from the December election.

He's also the MP who tried to take the mace in the House of Commons. 

 

 

Edited 16 April 2020 by Guesty

[Leicester_Loyal]

1 hour ago, Guesty said:

He's also the MP who tried to take the mace in the House of Commons. 

 

 

I didn't realise that was him too! I remember thinking that was stupid when he did it.

[Guest MattP]

16 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Lloyd Russell-Moyle promoted to Shadow Minister. I thought I recognised the name, this is the 'we'll fight them in the streets' bloke from the December election.

Biggest ponce in the HoC and that's some achievement. Only things I can remember him doing are grabbing the mace and making a public announcement that he has HIV.

 

The "fight them on the streets" video is hilarious, I wouldn't back the bloke to be able to beat up Jacob Rees-Mogg.

[Foxin_Mad]

On 15/04/2020 at 17:40, MattP said:

The replies to this are mental. He really is Corbynistas public enemy no1 atm.

 

The sooner the world is rid of these vile Corbynista creatures the better.

 

They are the most spiteful, envious vile human beings I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.

 

Their double standards are hilarious, sanctimonious nasty idiots. Its laughable they have the gall the criticise Tories, all they do is sit bitching all day on Twitter - get out and make a difference you whining idiots.

Edited 17 April 2020 by Foxin_Mad

[Dahnsouff]

18 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

The sooner the world is rid of these vile Corbynista creatures the better.

 

They are the most spiteful, envious vile human beings I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.

 

Their double standards are hilarious, sanctimonious nasty idiots. Its laughable they have the gall the criticise Tories, all they do is sit bitching all day on Twitter - get out and make a difference you whining idiots.

I fear it is because some people think that being vocal on social media is actually doing something/making a difference, which in 99% of cases just is not true.

It does buy them a bit of self-aggrandisement whilst allowing no accountability.

No wonder it’s catching on eh?

[Foxin_Mad]

3 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

I fear it is because some people think that being vocal on social media is actually doing something/making a difference, which in 99% of cases just is not true.

It does buy them a bit of self-aggrandisement whilst allowing no accountability.

No wonder it’s catching on eh?

Yes, the state of the world! 

 

The weird thing is there are a great number of tories and tory voters that are damn decent people. Who do a lot in times like this. 

 

I'm yet to feel that I have met a corbynista I feel the same about,  they just seem whiney virtue signalers who very rarely back up their stuff with any real action.

[Trav Le Bleu]

On 13/04/2020 at 11:54, Strokes said:

Personally I’d rather we all just stopped calling out peoples bias, without acknowledging our own.

We all have it, It’s harder to find the balanced posters than the unbalanced ones, people seem to enjoy the singling out malarkey, like their shit don’t stink.

I’d much rather have a hostile debate with @Toddybad and @MooseBreath’s latest incarnation, where we all know our own bias. Than the mollycoddled, edited threads that occur now. With people treading on eggshells to avoid bans. Then still getting them.

I've often thought this weird.

 

In the arts, music, film, TV it's usually the bland, run of the mill, by the numbers, middle of the road efforts that are the most popular. It's all beige, vanilla, ready salted.

 

When it comes to politics however, hardly anyone is beige, vanilla or ready salted.

 

Just saying.

[Voll Blau]

Decent start from Starmer at PMQs (albeit not against the PM), but will be interesting to see how his approach fares once the chamber's full of MPs on both sides braying like farm animals again.

 

Feel the courtroom eeriness of the occasion lent itself to the kind of delivery and cross-examination he's used to. He's going to be a stickler for facts and figures - and that's a good thing, especially in what we're going through now.

Edited 22 April 2020 by Voll Blau

[Alf Bentley]

34 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Decent start from Starmer at PMQs (albeit not against the PM), but will be interesting to see how his approach fares once the chamber's full of MPs on both sides braying like farm animals again.

 

Feel the courtroom eeriness of the occasion lent itself to the kind of delivery and cross-examination he's used to. He;s going to be a stickler for facts and figures - and that's a good thing, especially in what we're going through now.

 

Seemed like a good debut by Starmer from the few clips I've seen. But that's a good point about the hushed, forensic nature of the occasion suiting him.

 

Mind you, that could be the norm for many months, if not longer. It's hard to see the pit full of braying farm animals resuming until the virus is well under control.

 

It'll be interesting to see what Johnson is like when he comes back (generally, not just in PMQs). A near-death experience like that is likely to have some impact on him - or is it?

A big part of his persona as a politician has been the "performance" - bullish, informal, humorous, optimistic, flamboyant word selection, ad libs etc. Will/can he just resume that or will he become more serious?

That's assuming that he still has the health and drive for the job...probably will, I'd imagine, as it's been his life's mission, but you never know how an experience like that could affect someone.

[Lionator]

A selective thread for anybody who's not seen it.

 

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1252941189797552129?s=20

[Bilo]

The Tories are not going to feel quite so cocky about PMQs with such a strong operator on the other side. Exactly the scrutiny and opposition the country needs.