TommyK Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 Mane is a world class player. He influences every game he plays in even if he doesn't directly get goals or assists. Barnes does not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie the Fox Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, TommyK said: Mane is a world class player. He influences every game he plays in even if he doesn't directly get goals or assists. Barnes does not. Yet! Edited 1 January 2020 by Suzie the Fox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox85 Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 4 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said: Yet! YET!! This is word that while a understanding of development is great it's also a word on whether or not you risk the clubs ambitions for champions league football. Is Barnes a good player? Absolutely he has proven he is, I just think he lacks huge confidence in front of goal, something that can cost us dearly in the run in. But in reality we need a huge upgrade in firepower with regards to a winger who knows how to hit the back of the net on a regular basis whether that's Perez who takes the hit or barnes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie the Fox Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 2 minutes ago, Fox85 said: YET!! This is word that while a understanding of development is great it's also a word on whether or not you risk the clubs ambitions for champions league football. Is Barnes a good player? Absolutely he has proven he is, I just think he lacks huge confidence in front of goal, something that can cost us dearly in the run in. But in reality we need a huge upgrade in firepower with regards to a winger who knows how to hit the back of the net on a regular basis whether that's Perez who takes the hit or barnes. I agree, he is by far not the complete package atm, but has proven he can step up each year thru the lesser leagues and i'm confident he can and will do the same in the PL if he is given enough time. His ability to find space is right up there with the best and is rocking with his assists, showing he isnt a greedy player. However like you quite rightly pointed out its his lack of confidence in front of goal thats currently letting him down. IMO dropping him though would only make this worse and push his confidence even lower, therefore whilst we are still sitting pretty in the league and winning games, why not persist and see if he can shake this run of not scoring? However if a proven player is available and at the right price then i don't see any reason why we shouldnt go in for him which would take some of the pressure off Harvey and perhaps help him to gain the confidence he is currently lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox85 Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 6 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said: I agree, he is by far not the complete package atm, but has proven he can step up each year thru the lesser leagues and i'm confident he can and will do the same in the PL if he is given enough time. His ability to find space is right up there with the best and is rocking with his assists, showing he isnt a greedy player. However like you quite rightly pointed out its his lack of confidence in front of goal thats currently letting him down. IMO dropping him though would only make this worse and push his confidence even lower, therefore whilst we are still sitting pretty in the league and winning games, why not persist and see if he can shake this run of not scoring? However if a proven player is available and at the right price then i don't see any reason why we shouldnt go in for him which would take some of the pressure off Harvey and perhaps help him to gain the confidence he is currently lacking. Yea it's a difficult one isnt it. A truly fantastic prospect but that's for BR to manage and what he gets paid for. I genuinely believe it wouldn't be barnes that lost his place anyway more so Perez as a rotational tactical decision as he blows hot and cold a hell of a lot more than Barnes. The funny thing is they are all fantastic players and it's good we are in a position now days to want even better, even thou both of them would get in most sides outside the top 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tielemans63 Posted 1 January 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 1 January 2020 2 hours ago, TommyK said: Mane is a world class player. He influences every game he plays in even if he doesn't directly get goals or assists. Barnes does not. Mane is world class. He's also nearly 6 years older and vastly more experienced than Harvey. Mane also once went almost 5 months without scoring for Southampton so has been through a barren spell himself. He didn't go straight to being world class because very, very few players do that. Not many world class 22 year old wingers in the Premier League but we have one who could eventually be. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Paddy. said: I genuinely believe it's a matter of time. He's going to be a hell of a player. Just needs confidence. 1 hour ago, Fox85 said: YET!! This is word that while a understanding of development is great it's also a word on whether or not you risk the clubs ambitions for champions league football. Is Barnes a good player? Absolutely he has proven he is, I just think he lacks huge confidence in front of goal, something that can cost us dearly in the run in. But in reality we need a huge upgrade in firepower with regards to a winger who knows how to hit the back of the net on a regular basis whether that's Perez who takes the hit or barnes. 46 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said: I agree, he is by far not the complete package atm, but has proven he can step up each year thru the lesser leagues and i'm confident he can and will do the same in the PL if he is given enough time. His ability to find space is right up there with the best and is rocking with his assists, showing he isnt a greedy player. However like you quite rightly pointed out its his lack of confidence in front of goal thats currently letting him down. IMO dropping him though would only make this worse and push his confidence even lower, therefore whilst we are still sitting pretty in the league and winning games, why not persist and see if he can shake this run of not scoring? However if a proven player is available and at the right price then i don't see any reason why we shouldnt go in for him which would take some of the pressure off Harvey and perhaps help him to gain the confidence he is currently lacking. It's not confidence that's letting him down it's his intelligence. The comment about his ability to find space is so wrong. Time and time again he makes no run, creates no angle and just stands waiting for the ball. If he makes a run it's usually the wrong one. If he had more footballing intelligence then he'd find himself in more goal scoring positions, positions that would be easier to take and his confidence in front of goal would not be an issue. Barnes needs to learn when to run and when not to, he needs to learn when to make the unselfish run and take a defender away. He needs to know when to create an angle. Currently he waits for the ball to arrive at his feet and then tries to affect the game from there. Don't get me wrong, with the ball at his feet hes a great player, it's how he affects the game without the ball that's letting him down, and that is nothing to do with confidence. As a youngster who's come through our academy we all hope that he makes it, and that has afforded him extra time and patience, but he needs to learn quick because he's running passed that point where "potential" can't be used to describe him anymore Edited 1 January 2020 by Jimbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie the Fox Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 5 minutes ago, Jimbo said: It's not confidence that's letting him down it's his intelligence. The comment about his ability to find space is so wrong. Time and time again he makes no run, creates no angle and just stands waiting for the ball. If he makes a run it's usually the wrong one. If he had more footballing intelligence then he'd find himself in more goal scoring positions, positions that would be easier to take and his confidence in front of goal would not be an issue. Barnes needs to learn when to run and when not to, he needs to learn when to make the unselfish run and take a defender away. He needs to know when to create an angle. Currently he waits for the ball to arrive at his feet and then tries to affect the game from there. Don't get me wrong, with the ball at his feet hes a great player, it's how he affects the game without the ball that's letting him down, and that is nothing to do with confidence. As a youngster who's come through our academy we all hope that he makes it, and that has afforded him extra time and patience, but he needs to learn quick because he's running passed that point where "potential" can't be used to describe him anymore Neither of us know for sure whether its a confidence issue or not, so i take on board what you have said although i personally disagree with it. Question, if he never is able to find space how come he is doing so well with his assists? Yes, he makes the wrong runs at times and like i said is not the complete package but i think you are being a tad harsh saying he doesn't have a footballing brain. If that was the case he wouldnt have improved year on year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 6 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said: Neither of us know for sure whether its a confidence issue or not, so i take on board what you have said although i personally disagree with it. Question, if he never is able to find space how come he is doing so well with his assists? Yes, he makes the wrong runs at times and like i said is not the complete package but i think you are being a tad harsh saying he doesn't have a footballing brain. If that was the case he wouldnt have improved year on year. Because, as I said, he's good with the ball at his feet. One thing I will say about his is that he is a terrific dribbler of the football and he's deceptively quick. But his game without the ball is what needs work and that isn't a confidence issue, it's all about footballing intelligence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tielemans63 Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 12 minutes ago, Jimbo said: It's not confidence that's letting him down it's his intelligence. The comment about his ability to find space is so wrong. Time and time again he makes no run, creates no angle and just stands waiting for the ball. If he makes a run it's usually the wrong one. If he had more footballing intelligence then he'd find himself in more goal scoring positions, positions that would be easier to take and his confidence in front of goal would not be an issue. Barnes needs to learn when to run and when not to, he needs to learn when to make the unselfish run and take a defender away. He needs to know when to create an angle. Currently he waits for the ball to arrive at his feet and then tries to affect the game from there. Don't get me wrong, with the ball at his feet hes a great player, it's how he affects the game without the ball that's letting him down, and that is nothing to do with confidence. As a youngster who's come through our academy we all hope that he makes it, and that has afforded him extra time and patience, but he needs to learn quick because he's running passed that point where "potential" can't be used to describe him anymore It's not intelligence he lacks, it's experience. This pisses me off massively about some of our fans. What are you expecting? For him to instantly know what to do in every situation he faces in the best league in the world? For him to just have an intrinsic knowledge of what to do and when? Yeah, he does need to learn and you do that by playing and getting experience. Players who have an innate ability to know exactly what to do and when from a very young age are very, very few and far between. If young players were binned off for making poor decisions then you'd have no Raheem Sterling, no Harry Kane, no Jamie Vardy, no Mo Salah etc etc. They took time to learn the game and they're not bad. He's played 38 games for us, 38...and you think he's been afforded extra time and patience? Jesus wept 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacnah Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 11 hours ago, Paddy. said: I genuinely believe it's a matter of time. He's going to be a hell of a player. Just needs confidence. I agree. Think his confidence is low at the moment. How many of us would have binned Vardy in his early days.....be honest. This lad has talent. It may take time to fully flower. We need to encourage and support him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tielemans63 Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 Just now, Jacnah said: I agree. Think his confidence is low at the moment. How many of us would have binned Vardy in his early days.....be honest. This lad has talent. It may take time to fully flower. We need to encourage and support him I've run out of reps but I totally agree. Not sure when it happened but for some reason people seem to have very little patience for young players these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Paddy. said: It's not intelligence he lacks, it's experience. This pisses me off massively about some of our fans. What are you expecting? For him to instantly know what to do in every situation he faces in the best league in the world? For him to just have an intrinsic knowledge of what to do and when? Yeah, he does need to learn and you do that by playing and getting experience. Players who have an innate ability to know exactly what to do and when from a very young age are very, very few and far between. If young players were binned off for making poor decisions then you'd have no Raheem Sterling, no Harry Kane, no Jamie Vardy, no Mo Salah etc etc. They took time to learn the game and they're not bad. He's played 38 games for us, 38...and you think he's been afforded extra time and patience? Jesus wept I say this because you look at the reaction to our latest scape goat, Ayoze Perez. People can't wait to slate him, but for me, he affects the games more when he plays than Barnes does. Yes Barnes is young and yes he has a lot to learn. But standing waiting for the ball instead of making a run in behind, dragging a defender away or creating an angle for a pass is instinctive. He likes the ball at his feet, he wants to affect the game from there but he needs to work on affecting the game when he's without the ball. You don't think hes been afforded extra time and patience. Kelechi isn't that much older than him, has not come through our academy and look at the reaction to him since he's signed....... I'm not saying that Barnes won't be a great player, I'm not saying he isn't good at the moment, but people seem to be confusing a lack of confidence in front of goal with a lack of experience. It's not a confidence issue with him, it's his reading of the game Edited 1 January 2020 by Jimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie the Fox Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 So what about Jarrod Bowen then.. Yay or Nay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarehamFox Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 Thought I’d clicked on the Bowen thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tielemans63 Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 2 minutes ago, Jimbo said: I say this because you look at the reaction to our latest scape goat, Ayoze Perez. People can't wait to slate him, but for me, he affects the games more when he plays than Barnes does. Yes Barnes is young and yes he has a lot to learn. But standing waiting for the ball instead of making a run in behind, dragging a defender away or creating an angle for a pass is instinctive. He likes the ball at his feet, he wants to affect the game from there but he needs to work on affecting the game when he's without the ball. You don't think hes been afforded extra time and patience. Kelechi isn't that much older than him, has not come through pur academy and look at the reaction to him since he's signed....... I take your point but I guess that's the difference. I think we should be patient with all of our players. I don't expect anyone to be instantly amazing and I think it's ridiculous that people are writing off the likes of Perez already but that doesn't make the criticism of Harvey right imho. I'm not saying he's beyond reproach, I'm saying some of the criticism for a young guy learning the game is beyond parody. People (not necessarily you) hinting that he'll never be good enough to make it at this level piss me off massively. He's 22 ffs, when did 22 become old for a footballer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majaco Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 I hope Bowen will be a fantastic signing. I hope Barnes becomes world class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silva Fox Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 It'll be interesting to see if he is in the Hull squad today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majaco Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 Why would Barnes be in the Hull squad? Anyone would think this is Jared Bowen thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 (edited) He’s slightly odds on to go to villa .... very few players are odds on to go anywhere at the moment ....hence the nonsense links to stuff like Ricky for 30m .... Edited 1 January 2020 by st albans fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 I still hope we are setting our sights slightly higher.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam1 Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 Is he the standard to get us to the Champs League final? Might seem a daft question - but we need to be aiming high in order to push the club forwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Earle Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 1 hour ago, majaco said: I hope Bowen will be a fantastic signing. I hope Barnes becomes world class. It is of course the hope that kills us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post casablancas Posted 1 January 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 1 January 2020 15 minutes ago, adam1 said: Is he the standard to get us to the Champs League final? Might seem a daft question - but we need to be aiming high in order to push the club forwards. Can we go out and buy players capable of playing in the UCL Final? I mean look at the last 5 years of signings. The best have always been players we sign and develop. The ones where we brought proven champs league players have been major disappointments. Stick to what we know and what we’ve done better than anyone in the last 3 seasons. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxinsox Posted 1 January 2020 Share Posted 1 January 2020 9 minutes ago, casablancas said: Can we go out and buy players capable of playing in the UCL Final? I mean look at the last 5 years of signings. The best have always been players we sign and develop. The ones where we brought proven champs league players have been major disappointments. Stick to what we know and what we’ve done better than anyone in the last 3 seasons. Bowen sounds a good fit to me. I quite like Perez, but he does better centrally, as a back up to Maddison, as he did on Saturday. We will be playing in Europe next year, so do need a squad that can handle rotation for that number of games. I would like to see Barnes against Wigan, hopefully he can get some goals soon. He is a great prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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