Reconsidering VAR

[Trav Le Bleu]

We've had VAR for a while now and a lot of the votes in the VAR thread were given at the start of the season and you can't alter your vote, so I'm interested to see how people feel after over half a season.

 

Personally I feel it's draining the fun out of the game, without improving decisions radically, save for off sides and even then, the fine margins on the close ones aren't worth delaying the game for 4-5 mins.

[fuchsntf]

its incompetent  officials who are destroying it....

If we are going to have the same One-Eyed perspective,with no improvement,then give all the decision making back to the Match officials.

Plus get rid of the fourth official,unless we make him become game active...!!!

[UniFox21]

VAR is and will be good for the sport, it makes the game fairer and as players get fitter, gives us confidence of getting those decisions right that give those small advantages.  

 

But, what needs changing is the humans officiating VAR. They need to learn the rules and how to use the technology properly. Not just do it all on a whim like we currently are.

 

Our poor officials are killing the game, not VAR.

[Guest SO1]

As long as there is human judgement there will always be issues. There's no way to make things error proof.

VAR is still better than nothing and I'm sure they will look to improve it.

Don't see how they will ever restore the flow back to the game (Goals/Offsides) or take human judgement out of the equation (handballs/fouls). Review takes time.

Edited 23 February 2020 by SO1

[Leicester_Loyal]

I’m much less positive about it than I was originally. I think stuff needs to change in order to make it positive, the referee should be made to look at the monitor rather than rely on someone else to make that call. The only thing that has improved due to VAR are offsides, but even that is dubious due to the FPS being low and I’m not entirely sure how the lines work etc. 

 

I’ve wrote this in the VAR thread but even though we’re 3rd in the league I’m just not enjoying watching football at the moment, every game there’s 2 or 3 blatant decisions which VAR should correct but it doesn’t happen. 

[Collibosher70]

You can have 600 camera angles and lines that can tell offside within a millimetre. But if you have incompetent buffoons using the technology then it's irrelevant.

[mozartfox]

2 minutes ago, Collibosher70 said:

You can have 600 camera angles and lines that can tell offside within a millimetre. But if you have incompetent buffoons using the technology then it's irrelevant.

True. If a normal worker performed like Coote did yesterday, they would be justifiably sacked.and His decisions could cost us a UCL place and potentially 100m UPK in additional revenue. The Club should demand he is relieved of duties with immediate effect.

[Stadt]

If you like it you’re a danger to the vulnerable in society 

Edited 23 February 2020 by Stadt

[smr]

The idea of VAR is logical and makes sense. 

 

The problem with it is not the idea of it, but the people using it. Idiots basically who cannot call a decision properly. ie. the handball at Villa second leg, the KDB handball today etc.

[Beliall]

Can we use VAR to change the outcome of the poll if you dont get the result you want?

[Matt]

I was all for it, I was calling for it for some time, although my idea was it should be treated as an appeal system - like in cricket. 3 appeals each team, only captain can call for them, if it’s correctly overturned you keep the appeal, wrongly appealed you lose it.

 

That seems a better idea than what is currently going on.

 

It would also (imo) make teams use the appeals wisely and cut diving and cheating out the game to an extent.

 

This current system clearly isn’t working.

 

I claimed it’d be a ‘leveller’, cut out the big team bias, I was wrong.

 

Out of interest do other countries have the issues we are having? If not why? And why haven’t we consulted other countries and how they use it?

[Dan LCFC]

Get it gone.

[Royston.]

More controversy than ever.

 

They tried but it just causes disrepute while delaying the game and in its current format should be binned.

 

 

[inckley fox]

Your officials need to have some sort of consensus on what the rules are before it can possibly work. And they don't.

 

I know a retired EPL ref, and he's the first to say that it's a real back-slapping culture, with a lot of fragile egos. His view is that VAR is fine if the people that implement it are competent, and properly challenged to be competent. But they're not. Not to the extent, even, that a teacher or policeman is monitored for their ability to uphold the norms of their profession. And this is a significantly more lucrative business. Worse still, the rule changes that come in seem to add more grey areas, and encourage even greater subjectivity among a set of thoroughly incompetent individuals.

 

It's not fair. It's comically inconsistent. And if the game doesn't make a quick decision to use VAR only where it's impartial, objective, and unimposing on moments like - say - the scoring of a goal, then football as a product will suffer hugely.

 

Can anyone honestly say that it's had a positive impact on this season? For me it's made football more about officiating than about football. I'm totally in favour of progress, but VAR - and officiating in general - needs a massive overhaul.

[StanSP]

Get independent officials doing VAR from Stockley Park and we might see some changes. 

 

Make referees culpable for their decisions. Yesterday we had the same VAR ref for the Chelsea game do our game and PGMOL already admitted he made a blunder during the first game. 

 

The rules are there in place and I don't think they need to change. If you start changing those for the benefit of VAR I think you set a dangerous precedent. 

 

I think over time it can become good but it needs a lot of work from officials, not necessarily the technology in place. 

[Facecloth]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Get independent officials doing VAR from Stockley Park and we might see some changes. 

 

Make referees culpable for their decisions. Yesterday we had the same VAR ref for the Chelsea game do our game and PGMOL already admitted he made a blunder during the first game. 

 

The rules are there in place and I don't think they need to change. If you start changing those for the benefit of VAR I think you set a dangerous precedent. 

 

I think over time it can become good but it needs a lot of work from officials, not necessarily the technology in place. 

Exactly, the use of VAR has to change not the rules. Once we start tweaking the offside like Wenger has suggested just the suit VAR then we're heading even further in the wrong direction rather than ironing out the problems.

 

Three things need to happen. Like you say, it needs to be independent. Can't have to guys who normally ref also running the VAR. Second the onfield ref needs to make the final decision by using the monitor, they are in charge of the game. Thirdly I think things like offside and attacking handball need a time limit on them. If it's not immediately obvious, stick with the onfield decision.

 

I'd also like a challenge system like cricket or tennis, but that's not integral to making it work 

[Stoopid]

The phrase 'VAR' is rapidly approaching Brexit levels of tedium.

Please stop talking about it.

Please.

[Dahnsouff]

Pretty sure IBM could do a much better job than those primates at Stockley Park.

[dayday]

I hate it, when you score you sit back and wait for var just to make sure it’s a goal, where’s the enjoyment in that.

[Guest ttfn]

I was in favour of VAR at the start of the season - I thought it worked well at the 2018 World Cup and seemed to be putting an end to some of the less easily spotted but more annoying bits of foul play (eg shirt pulling at corners).

But the Premier League’s implementation of it has been horrendous. I know offsides are “correct” but it just doesn’t feel right to me that we’re measuring it down to the centimetre, especially when we know it’s not not foolproof.

 

But I’ve accepted the offsides now, they are what they are and at least it’s fair, consistent and logical if not in the spirit of the game. 
 

“Subjective” decisions though - obvious red cards being missed, penalties not being given -have been an unmitigated shit show. I used to walk away from football matches annoyed at referees but I understood that they might not have seen something properly or just had a different opinion based on what they had seen. Now I find myself far more confused and worked up by it than I ever did before. Because even with the video technology they’re still supporting incorrect decisions that 98% of informed observers can see are wrong. Then to rub salt in the wounds, PGMOL are then literally making the rules up as they go along to try to post-rationalise the incompetence of the officials.

 

Any pretence of the referees being competent has gone. All VAR has done is doubled-down on the home team/big team bias that always existed as ridiculous decisions given in favour of home/big sides are just being signed off by some faceless sycophant who won’t make a decision to undermine his mate in the interests of a fair game so hides behind the crazily high bar for clear and obvious errors.
 

It’s supposed to be there to improve things and it’s making them much worse. I rolled my eyes the first time I heard the “it’s not football anymore” chanting but the more I think about it the more I realise that it’s turning me off football.

 

There’s loads more to add - the crap experience for paying fans in the ground as well as my own personal pet hate that they never add sufficient time on to cover the interminable delays but I will be here all day if I go into it any more.

[Dahnsouff]

How to fix VAR in 3 steps

1. Get IBM to make Watson do it rather than those gimps in the Stockley Park
   1. Computers know rules
2. Make offsides purely the remit of the lines people again
   1. Until Watson can make the decision instantly
3. Reasons are shown on the big screen during/after each VAR decision 

Key points are speed and consistency, things not within a human’s programming it seems

 

[Fox92]

It's not VAR that is the issue it's the people using it.

 

If a ref is a shit ref who makes shit decisions then it's not gonna change just sticking him in front of a screen. He'll still make shit decisions.

[ozleicester]

same amount of disputed errors.. game play ruined ... Zero gain

[Guest]

VAR isn't the problem. The refs use of VAR is. It worked fantastically in the world cup and it should make football a better and fairer game - not tilted towards the big 6.

 

We need to persist with it and sort out the use of it.

 

First year was always going to be difficult.

[Corky]

Didn't want it and still don't- I could accept (begrudgingly, of course) the bad decisions happen, you'll benefit too and we can just get on with it. The main issue this season has been the offsides and although it is micro-analysed, they've been consistent at least.

 

The subjective decisions have been an absolute lottery and it makes it worse when there have been two people looking at the incident. Referees don't seem to be making as many decisions with the knowledge of the technology back-up too.