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[StanSP]

7 hours ago, twister said:

Terrible night for the met again and more questions for dick and khan.

Sounds like a cop programme where they mean well in everything they do but continue to get a lot wrong all too often... 

[leicsmac]

22 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

So you attended an illegal gathering during a pandemic but describe the policing as shocking for trying to break it up. News flash for you, it’s not shocking policing it’s what the normal general public want them to do. Ignore Twitter and the left wing mob, the average person has no sympathy for you.

It was taken to court and deemed illegal, the organisers told you to stay on your doorstep.

I’m sure you will have no complaints when lock down is extended due to actions such as these.

The lockdown argument is a fair one, but this sounds like the implication is that the "average person" (whatever that means) has no sympathy for the cause being protested.

 

Is that true? I sincerely hope not.

[TamworthFoxes]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The lockdown argument is a fair one, but this sounds like the implication is that the "average person" (whatever that means) has no sympathy for the cause being protested.

 

Is that true? I sincerely hope not.

No never mentioned the cause, it doesn’t matter what the cause was, people shouldn’t gather full stop.

Same as BLM gatherings, large raves, parties, Rangers fans celebrating. The reason is not important, just don’t do it.

Certainly don’t have the temerity to criticise the OB for trying to break it up.

[Lcfc82]

24 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

So you attended an illegal gathering during a pandemic but describe the policing as shocking for trying to break it up. News flash for you, it’s not shocking policing it’s what the normal general public want them to do. Ignore Twitter and the left wing mob, the average person has no sympathy for you.

It was taken to court and deemed illegal, the organisers told you to stay on your doorstep.

I’m sure you will have no complaints when lock down is extended due to actions such as these.

I agree. Are the police supposed to just leave them to it ? They were breaking the law ( whether you agree with the laws or not ) from the pictures I’ve seen there was no social distancing at all.  
As for it being a vigil for Sarah everard, it was organised by a group called reclaim the streets, who to my knowledge have no connection with Sarah everard at all. They have used this murder to generate publicity for themselves due to the media coverage it has got and to enable them to go out protesting.
I can’t believe the response from MP’s as well, are they now saying it’s ok to go out and gather in large groups ? If so then let’s scrap the lockdown and open everything up.

 

 

[Lcfc82]

7 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

No never mentioned the cause, it doesn’t matter what the cause was, people shouldn’t gather full stop.

Same as BLM gatherings, large raves, parties, Rangers fans celebrating. The reason is not important, just don’t do it.

Certainly don’t have the temerity to criticise the OB for trying to break it up.

Exactly the Rangers fans celebrating were widely condemned for doing essentially the same thing. 
 

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

No never mentioned the cause, it doesn’t matter what the cause was, people shouldn’t gather full stop.

Same as BLM gatherings, large raves, parties, Rangers fans celebrating. The reason is not important, just don’t do it.

Certainly don’t have the temerity to criticise the OB for trying to break it up.

Fair enough.

 

In that case, I am interested in what could be done by folks to benefit the cause that would be deemed "socially acceptable".

[Mike Oxlong]

I can’t imagine that any of this is helping the victims’ family who must be going through hell at the moment 

[Pliskin]

The problem is, at the moment it is illegal to gather in a public space.... therefore the vigil was unlawful. As far as I have read the met, a smattering of MP’s and a judge along with other court officials had a meeting regarding it, my understanding is the mp’s and court officials were the ones who did not agree to allow the police to allow the vigil to take place. 
 

The met often handle things badly, however, their hands are tied with this, police are governed by legislation, and the legislation in place stated that the vigil was illegal, at this time, in a few weeks it may not be, so could it not have waited? I’m disappointed that a lot of this attention has been diverted back into the police, when in reality it is all about a young girl whom has had her life tragically cut short.

 

The perpetrator is no cop, he served as an officer and swore an oath to protect the people, and he broke this oath, the day he did, he was no longer a cop, he was a murderer and nothing more. 
 

This should be about Sarah, and personally if I was organising a vigil, I would have wanted to wait until It could have been done peacefully respectfully and allow the message to carry across, all we have here is yet another article of protestors clashing with police, which has pretty much been the message from every large protest this year, it achieves nothing but more civil unrest.

[Pliskin]

1 minute ago, Mike Oxlong said:

I can’t imagine that any of this is helping the victims’ family who must be going through hell at the moment 

Exactly this..... this should be about Sarah, the girl was was horrifically murdered and had her life cut short.

[Buce]

 

OLD BILL IN HEAVY-HANDED POLICING SHOCK!

 

The only surprising thing about this is the number of people on a football forum who seem surprised; I can only assume they've never been to a match.

[nnfox]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

OLD BILL IN HEAVY-HANDED POLICING SHOCK!

 

The only surprising thing about this is the number of people on a football forum who seem surprised; I can only assume they've never been to a match.

Just this week the Met were criticised for being too lenient.  Despite what anybody thinks about the rights and wrongs of the situation, the police in the UK aren't heavy handed.

[peach0000]

19 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

No never mentioned the cause, it doesn’t matter what the cause was, people shouldn’t gather full stop.

Same as BLM gatherings, large raves, parties, Rangers fans celebrating. The reason is not important, just don’t do it.

Certainly don’t have the temerity to criticise the OB for trying to break it up.

A vigil is different to a protest, rave, party or riot. Another key difference is the organisers tried their best to allow the police to let them hold the event in a COVID secure way with social distancing and masks etc. Are you really okay living in a society where the police have the power to arrest women kneeling and praying at a vigil and drag them away into the dark? I’m not sure I am!

[Lcfc82]

4 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

A vigil is different to a protest, rave, party or riot. Another key difference is the organisers tried their best to allow the police to let them hold the event in a COVID secure way with social distancing and masks etc. Are you really okay living in a society where the police have the power to arrest women kneeling and praying at a vigil and drag them away into the dark? I’m not sure I am!

Under the current laws it’s not though is it ? It’s still a large gathering of people.

Also these type of events where large numbers turn up are virtually impossible to do in a COVID secure way, the organisers of the event would be aware of this. 

[peach0000]

5 minutes ago, nnfox said:

Just this week the Met were criticised for being too lenient.  Despite what anybody thinks about the rights and wrongs of the situation, the police in the UK aren't heavy handed.

Have you seen the footage from last night? I ask because I’m wondering how you can watch it and not say it’s heavy handed

*just a random tweet. I’ve posted purely for the video rather than the actual content of the tweet! 

[RowlattsFox]

Let's be honest, a social distanced vigil was never going to happen, the organisers may have had that intention but once those looking for a protest get involved it's impossible to make it socially distant. That is the nature of these things.

 

You can't allow some protests, or whatever you want to call it, and not others, and if enough people join a protest there is nothing the police can do without it becoming confrontational. Common sense should have prevailed and let it see itself out and hope there is no longer term covid impact. 

 

The family, rightly in my opinion, are keeping themselves out of all this from what I've seen and it must be difficult to have Sarah name plastered everywhere. So many people on social media using the death of women to make it about them.

 

 

 

 

[peach0000]

7 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

Under the current laws it’s not though is it ? It’s still a large gathering of people.

Also these type of events where large numbers turn up are virtually impossible to do in a COVID secure way, the organisers of the event would be aware of this. 

I think you would have less issues with social distancing at a vigil than at a BLM protest or a Rangers celebration. Ultimately the event was happening, the police knew that and to add in the fact it was a vigil for a woman who was murdered allegedly by a surving police officer they should have used some common sense and stayed away. Let it happen with as much social distancing as possible and then let everyone leave safely. I mean the organisers had even employed 50 stewards in order to maintain social distancing!

Edited 14 March 2021 by peach0000

[TamworthFoxes]

2 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

I think you would have less issues with social distancing at a vigil than at a BLM protest or a Rangers celebration. Ultimately the even was happening, the police knew that and to add in the fact it was a vigil for a woman who was murdered allegedly by a surging police officer they should have used some common sense and stayed away. Let it happen with as much social distancing as possible and then let everyone leave safely. I mean the organisers had even employed 50 stewards in order to maintain social distancing!

Worst stewards in the world then if they were supposed to maintain social distancing.

As for the video I see nothing wrong from the police actions. They are obviously trying to engage asking them to disperse. The ginger girl (ginger used as a descriptive trait not in a negative way) totally ignored them refusing to engage. Shortly afterwards police remove them using minimal force. Textbook policing at an illegal event during a pandemic.

People saying they should be left to it need to give their heads a wobble.

 

[peach0000]

Just now, TamworthFoxes said:

Worst stewards in the world then if they were supposed to maintain social distancing.

As for the video I see nothing wrong from the police actions. They are obviously trying to engage asking them to disperse. The ginger girl (ginger used as a descriptive trait not in a negative way) totally ignored them refusing to engage. Shortly afterwards police remove them using minimal force. Textbook policing at an illegal event during a pandemic.

People saying they should be left to it need to give their heads a wobble.

 

The stewards weren't there as the organisers were forced to cancel the event by the met. But we will just have to agree to disagree. I don't think there's any scenario where I will agree with the police dragging away women (or men for that matter) who are kneeling and praying at a vigil. Pandemic or not it's not acceptable in my eyes. We often in this country criticise countries like Russia or China for how they deal with 'protests' but even there I doubt they would respond with force in a case like this. 

[Pliskin]

15 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

A vigil is different to a protest, rave, party or riot. Another key difference is the organisers tried their best to allow the police to let them hold the event in a COVID secure way with social distancing and masks etc. Are you really okay living in a society where the police have the power to arrest women kneeling and praying at a vigil and drag them away into the dark? I’m not sure I am!

Met top Police actually held a meeting with court officials and MP’s to discuss exactly this, but the MP’s and court officials said no.... thus, the vigil remained illegal at the moment. The problem is they are literally goading the police into doing something, any normal circumstances and the vigil goals ahead peacefully, but at the moment it is illegal? So what are the boots on the ground supposed to do? 
 

In these situations police are damned if they do damned if they don’t. Because they act according to the legislation they have the power to remove anyone from the situation, and then naturally get ripped apart by the public and media.... they chose to do nothing, to appease the public and media and then they get torn apart by the powers that be. 
 

What should have happened is together an agreement was made to set a date in the future to allow the vigil to go ahead as a peaceful demonstration. It was never going to end well in this current climate, and all that is happening is Sarah’s name is disappearing behind more controversial actions.... I feel for her family so much, instead of us talking about their daughter and how tragic a case this is, the news spreads are now about clashes with police, again.... 

[Mike Oxlong]

No right thinking person can argue with the cause but to me this has become about the protestors need to protest now rather than the merits of their cause. However well intentioned and marshalled there will be mixing in breach of the regulations at such an event and those who know better (scientists not politicians) tell us this is likely to lead to increased incidents of infection, not just among the participants but potentially their contacts and contacts’ contacts. In some cases that will lead to serious illness and death. I can’t think that anyone would want that. The ruling that the event shouldn’t happen now doesn’t mean that it couldn’t happen at all. The cause should have the aim of bringing together the reasonable parts of society in support of the aim but through pressing ahead the organisers have distracted from that 

[peach0000]

1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

Met top Police actually held a meeting with court officials and MP’s to discuss exactly this, but the MP’s and court officials said no.... thus, the vigil remained illegal at the moment. The problem is they are literally goading the police into doing something, any normal circumstances and the vigil goals ahead peacefully, but at the moment it is illegal? So what are the boots on the ground supposed to do? 
 

In these situations police are damned if they do damned if they don’t. Because they act according to the legislation they have the power to remove anyone from the situation, and then naturally get ripped apart by the public and media.... they chose to do nothing, to appease the public and media and then they get torn apart by the powers that be. 
 

What should have happened is together an agreement was made to set a date in the future to allow the vigil to go ahead as a peaceful demonstration. It was never going to end well in this current climate, and all that is happening is Sarah’s name is disappearing behind more controversial actions.... I feel for her family so much, instead of us talking about their daughter and how tragic a case this is, the news spreads are now about clashes with police, again.... 

I think the middle paragraph is the most telling. The powers that be as you describe them, are the ones to blame for me. The actual individual police officers I understand were just following orders so I'm not blaming them or wanting them sacked. I said last night people like Dick, Patel, Kahn and local MPs have a lot to answer for. They would have been the ones giving orders/making decisions and any wrong doing should fall on their heads. I just think it could have been handled differently from the beginning. It didn't need to end like this.

[leicsmac]

Just now, Pliskin said:

Met top Police actually held a meeting with court officials and MP’s to discuss exactly this, but the MP’s and court officials said no.... thus, the vigil remained illegal at the moment. The problem is they are literally goading the police into doing something, any normal circumstances and the vigil goals ahead peacefully, but at the moment it is illegal? So what are the boots on the ground supposed to do? 
 

In these situations police are damned if they do damned if they don’t. Because they act according to the legislation they have the power to remove anyone from the situation, and then naturally get ripped apart by the public and media.... they chose to do nothing, to appease the public and media and then they get torn apart by the powers that be. 
 

What should have happened is together an agreement was made to set a date in the future to allow the vigil to go ahead as a peaceful demonstration. It was never going to end well in this current climate, and all that is happening is Sarah’s name is disappearing behind more controversial actions.... I feel for her family so much, instead of us talking about their daughter and how tragic a case this is, the news spreads are now about clashes with police, again.... 

That is unfortunately true.

 

I hope that what I'm about to say doesn't sound callous, but I do hope that despite all this the horrible circumstances of her death can be used to enact change, because without that this is all not only tragic - it's meaningless. Of course, death is quite often meaningless, sadly.

[harpendenfox]

Surely if the Police had kept a distant and low profile, then the gathering, described as being in the hundreds, takes place and then disperses of its own accord with no harm done?

[Big Dave]

53 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

I agree. Are the police supposed to just leave them to it ? They were breaking the law ( whether you agree with the laws or not ) from the pictures I’ve seen there was no social distancing at all.  
As for it being a vigil for Sarah everard, it was organised by a group called reclaim the streets, who to my knowledge have no connection with Sarah everard at all. They have used this murder to generate publicity for themselves due to the media coverage it has got and to enable them to go out protesting.
I can’t believe the response from MP’s as well, are they now saying it’s ok to go out and gather in large groups ? If so then let’s scrap the lockdown and open everything up.

 

 

The vigil was not organised by Reclaim The Streets. The original one was,  it RTS cancelled the event and told people not to attend.  

[Strokes]

31 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

Under the current laws it’s not though is it ? It’s still a large gathering of people.

Also these type of events where large numbers turn up are virtually impossible to do in a COVID secure way, the organisers of the event would be aware of this. 

I’d argue the way it was handled by the police put more people at risk from spreading Covid than it would if they had not turned up, or even better granted them permission and managed it remotely.

The point of banning all mass gatherings is set an example and on this occasion I would have thought everybody would be prepared to make an exception.

Edited 14 March 2021 by Strokes