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[peach0000]

7 minutes ago, Otis said:

So men leaving the house after 6pm will be breaking the law,

 

Yeah that will stop those law-abiding murderers.

The talk of curfews for men is so unhelpful for the wider message. I believe it originated from a member of the House of Lords who sits for the Green Party. It’s been used by people to turn it into a men vs women issue when everyone needs to pull together.

 

I mean I’m often accused of being a ‘snowflake’ or worse on here but even I wouldn’t suggest such a thing. Ignoring all the other ridiculous reasons why it’s an awful idea imagine how many essential workers wouldn’t be able to even go to work.

[Strokes]

I’m going to look ridiculous in my black rape suit in the daytime ffs.

[Otis]

1 minute ago, peach0000 said:

The talk of curfews for men is so unhelpful for the wider message. I believe it originated from a member of the House of Lords who sits for the Green Party. It’s been used by people to turn it into a men vs women issue when everyone needs to pull together.

 

I mean I’m often accused of being a ‘snowflake’ or worse on here but even I wouldn’t suggest such a thing. Ignoring all the other ridiculous reasons why it’s an awful idea imagine how many essential workers wouldn’t be able to even go to work.

I uderstand  it was a tongue in cheek comment, but the amount nutters taking it seriously is worrying.

[theessexfox]

I was at the vigil tonight, was completely fine and pretty socially distanced until the police escalated it. Just really shocking policing, no idea how they thought what they were doing would help the situation 

[peach0000]

2 minutes ago, Otis said:

I uderstand  it was a tongue in cheek comment, but the amount nutters taking it seriously is worrying.

Exactly. Twitter is full of it. Comments like the Green politician made just gets the backs up of an very odd section of our society. It’s so unnecessary.

[The whole world smiles]

What a pr disaster this is for the MET what an earth were they thinking?

 

Before tonight this case was widely seen as one scumbag rouge copper but somehow in a mad hour they have managed to paint the case as the police v vulnerable women. 

 

I would absolutely love to have been in a fly on the wall in the control room when they decided to break up a peaceful small protest by force in front of the world's media. I would be shocked if Carissa Dick can ride this out. 

[nnfox]

2 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

I was at the vigil tonight, was completely fine and pretty socially distanced until the police escalated it. Just really shocking policing, no idea how they thought what they were doing would help the situation 

The Met are going to get an absolute kicking over this whole case.

 

Question marks over their handling of the case from the off, then it turns out that it was one of their own.  All in the same week that they are chastised for being too soft when policing protests.  Then what happens? The first protest they have to police after getting that chastisement is one where they are the target of the protest!

[Sol thewall Bamba]

11 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

I was at the vigil tonight, was completely fine and pretty socially distanced until the police escalated it. Just really shocking policing, no idea how they thought what they were doing would help the situation 

As football fans we should hardly be surprised at this type of hideous policing.

[peach0000]

5 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

What a pr disaster this is for the MET what an earth were they thinking?

 

Before tonight this case was widely seen as one scumbag rouge copper but somehow in a mad hour they have managed to paint the case as the police v vulnerable women. 

 

I would absolutely love to have been in a fly on the wall in the control room when they decided to break up a peaceful small protest by force in front of the world's media. I would be shocked if Carissa Dick can ride this out. 

Dick as well as Priti Patel have a lot to answer for in my opinion. Of course Patel will survive as there seems to be little to no accountability for ministers in the current government compared with how it has worked historically. Would not surprised me if Dick is force to resign to save Patel. Kahn also has a lot to answer for as he is essentially in charge of the Met Police as well although he doesn't seem to of been directly involved in todays events perhaps he should have intervened sooner. It was all very predictable.

[The whole world smiles]

Very hard to get your head around how they were "hands off" when blm were vandalising statues and burning flags or when the footy lads alliance were drunkenly rampaging about but decide to smash the daylights out of a few hundred women at a candle lit vigil for a woman murdered by a copper. It's such a bad decision its almost funny. 

[Shram]

9 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

Dick as well as Priti Patel have a lot to answer for in my opinion. Of course Patel will survive as there seems to be little to no accountability for ministers in the current government compared with how it has worked historically. Would not surprised me if Dick is force to resign to save Patel. Kahn also has a lot to answer for as he is essentially in charge of the Met Police as well although he doesn't seem to of been directly involved in todays events perhaps he should have intervened sooner. It was all very predictable.

The met report to the Home Office, the mayor of London has no power, the commissioner of the met (Dick, by name and nature) takes overall responsibility and we know who’s lap dog she is..

[peach0000]

1 minute ago, Shram said:

The met report to the Home Office, the mayor of London has no power, the commissioner of the met (Dick, by name and nature) takes overall responsibility and we know who’s lap dog she is..

https://www.met.police.uk/police-forces/metropolitan-police/areas/about-us/about-the-met/governance/ Not true. The Mayor of London does have some power. Whether he should be accountable in this instance is very questionable though.

[Freeman's Wharfer]

14 hours ago, nnfox said:

My take is that there are many factors.  Education is one, environment is another, peer pressure plays a part and there are others too.  However, at the base of all this, I believe it is something much more primal.  It seems that most of these male offenders are typically younger males, of course there are lots of examples where older men have offended too but I would think that there is a concentration of offenders in that 18-30 age bracket.  Plenty outside of that, but a concentration at least.  It's well documented in psychology that in early years, children seek the approval of their parents and as the get into adolescents, they switch to seeking approval from the wider tribe as they make their own way in life, hence why teenagers rebel against their parents and spend time showing off to their peers.  Going back to that hunter/gatherer past, I suspect that males would view other males as a threat and one of the first things that happens would be an assessment of 'could I defeat my opponent in battle?'.  And when they look at females, an initial thought would be more towards 'could this woman be a mate and bear my children?'.

 

Fast forward 10,000 years and whilst society, technology and the rule of law have moved on massively and very quickly, our evolutionary brains haven't and those primal urges remain in society.  Thankfully most men surpress these tendancies but some don't/can't/won't.  The result is this state of friction between unacceptable human nature and the expectations of a civilised society.

 

Education can have a great effect and we should absolutely strive to better educate men and women about what is acceptable and not acceptable, but we are just not going to be able to flick a switch and make it go away overnight.  So long as there a humans on Earth, this problem will exist - albeit to a lesser extent as we move through the centuries.

It’s this. Watch any Attenborough documentary and within 5 minutes  you’ll see there are countless species where the male dominates the female in order to reproduce and ensure the survival of the species (in the rare instances they don’t, the same is true in reverse with the female holding the power). Those same species often have to fight other males for that dominant position.

 

However, the difference in humans is that we have the intellectual capacity and understanding to overcome those primal/animalistic urges that exist and to create more equality between the genders of our species. And for 99.9% of people on our planet currently, we are the result of evolution where everything is wired correctly for us not to kill and rape etc. But for those 0.01% - either through nature or nurture - they don’t function the same way.

 

I actually thought a lot about this during the BLM stuff. For me, I perceive racism as quite a natural thing: people feel comfortable in the company of people who remind them of themselves and their own lives experiences. Where racism becomes not normal thought, is that, again, we as humans have the intellect to find different commonalities other than skin colour and to overcome those instinctive initial leanings.

 

Both with that movement and what will now become a new movement from the Sarah Everard case, you’re trying to reach a society where there is 100% ability to override those primal/instinctive urges or behaviours. The 99.9% will get there but the 0.01% never will. And the way these campaigns play out these days, all that happens is the 99.9% will shout amongst themselves whilst the 0.01% continue as they are.

 

I read a quote last year that gives me peace in not getting too worked up about the ill in the world: the highest form of wisdom is the knowledge that you have the power to change nothing.

 

It’s true. We’ll never eradicate racism. We’ll never reach a sexual discrimination or assault free society. We’ll never experience a fair and just politics. We’ll never eradicate poverty. We’ll never stop wars.

 

So all of this social media campaigning, this blaming, this labelling of privilege: it’s pointless and achieves nothing. Live your life as a good, respectful, honourable person and you’re doing what you can. Forget this performative nonsense about crossing roads, hashtags, ‘being an ally’, taking knees etc.

[Freeman's Wharfer]

A quick point on the Met police.

 

What a 12 months those guys have had. During a deadly pandemic, they’ve been asked to manage widespread BLM protests where they’ve been labelled racists, anti-lockdown protests where they’ve been painted as ‘the mob taking away people’s liberties’, forced to break up illegal raves and house parties and now to put an end to what was (rightly or wrongly) an illegal gathering with this vigil on Clapham Common. That last one whilst having had one of their colleagues arrested on suspicion of murder and then that blown into a wider point around the trustworthiness of the police and/or their effectiveness/capability.

 

Underneath each of those hats is a person who probably hasn’t much wanted to be out and about whilst COVID ripped through the nation or told that, actually, regardless of the risk you take on through your job, you’re not any higher up the vaccine queue than you already are based on age. There’s someone who more likely than not is not a racist, or a rapist, despite the calls to defund their organisation or the shouts of “shame on you” at the vigil tonight.

 

I lived in London for 5 years and these are the men and women who have one of the hardest jobs in the world keeping people safe. Fighting knife crime, preventing terrorism, policing the largest events in the country and a highly populated city. They do it brilliantly.

 

So I won’t be joining in any pile on about how they handled the technically illegal event tonight. It doesn’t look good

but it never could look good. In the same way as you’re at risk of harm if you don’t interact with police peacefully and calmly when they are doing their job, if you went to an illegal gathering on Clapham Common tonight then you were also at risk of the police moving through the levels of response they needed to in order to split that up.

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

#DickOut is trending on Twitter. 
 

I am not joking. 

[urban.spaceman]

UK 2021 out of context. 
 

[bovril]

Twitter is self indulgent narcissistic bile and the fact it makes up so much of our discourse in the UK is a nightmare. 

Edited 13 March 2021 by bovril

[twister]

What the **** was cresdia dick thinking

 

Tell the officers to stand on the edge of the common and only get involved if completly ok

 

To surrounded the speaking part of the vigil where the flowers were then engage in confronation is horrific optics

 

Even if far left acab were around don't play into optics. Terrible night for the met again and more questions for dick and khan.

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, theessexfox said:

I was at the vigil tonight, was completely fine and pretty socially distanced until the police escalated it. Just really shocking policing, no idea how they thought what they were doing would help the situation 

Were you in the right place? Video on the bbc has hundreds of people practically linked arm in arm ffs. 

 

Not that it excuses the police response at all. As always there are times when laws can be bent, a vigil for a woman who just got brutally murdered by one of your own is probably one of those times.

[theessexfox]

37 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Were you in the right place? Video on the bbc has hundreds of people practically linked arm in arm ffs. 

 

Not that it excuses the police response at all. As always there are times when laws can be bent, a vigil for a woman who just got brutally murdered by one of your own is probably one of those times.

I was slightly further out from the central bandstand, the people there were admittedly a bit more closely packed together, though as I understand it they got a lot more bunched together and linked together because of the police pushing themselves to the centre of the bandstand and trying to shut off the speakers. The 90% of the crowd outside of the most central circle was more spaced out I’d say, not quite two metres though 😂. In general though the police’s actions turned the atmosphere toxic and they achieved nothing but bad PR, they didn’t disperse the gathering and if anything it went on longer because of their presence.

[Scotch]

I'm not OK with this. 

 

I get that people, mainly women are scared. I understand they are angry. They have a right to be and if they want to demonstrate that, more power to them but a vigil is supposed to be about the victim and that tonight, wasn't about the young lady that sadly lost her life. 

 

The people there tonight made it about themselves and the people the blamed, not about Sarah and that doesn't sit well with me. 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

It’s this. Watch any Attenborough documentary and within 5 minutes  you’ll see there are countless species where the male dominates the female in order to reproduce and ensure the survival of the species (in the rare instances they don’t, the same is true in reverse with the female holding the power). Those same species often have to fight other males for that dominant position.

 

However, the difference in humans is that we have the intellectual capacity and understanding to overcome those primal/animalistic urges that exist and to create more equality between the genders of our species. And for 99.9% of people on our planet currently, we are the result of evolution where everything is wired correctly for us not to kill and rape etc. But for those 0.01% - either through nature or nurture - they don’t function the same way.

 

I actually thought a lot about this during the BLM stuff. For me, I perceive racism as quite a natural thing: people feel comfortable in the company of people who remind them of themselves and their own lives experiences. Where racism becomes not normal thought, is that, again, we as humans have the intellect to find different commonalities other than skin colour and to overcome those instinctive initial leanings.

 

Both with that movement and what will now become a new movement from the Sarah Everard case, you’re trying to reach a society where there is 100% ability to override those primal/instinctive urges or behaviours. The 99.9% will get there but the 0.01% never will. And the way these campaigns play out these days, all that happens is the 99.9% will shout amongst themselves whilst the 0.01% continue as they are.

 

I read a quote last year that gives me peace in not getting too worked up about the ill in the world: the highest form of wisdom is the knowledge that you have the power to change nothing.

 

It’s true. We’ll never eradicate racism. We’ll never reach a sexual discrimination or assault free society. We’ll never experience a fair and just politics. We’ll never eradicate poverty. We’ll never stop wars.

 

So all of this social media campaigning, this blaming, this labelling of privilege: it’s pointless and achieves nothing. Live your life as a good, respectful, honourable person and you’re doing what you can. Forget this performative nonsense about crossing roads, hashtags, ‘being an ally’, taking knees etc.

Given the first half of the post, I'm not really sure how this conclusion is drawn from it.

 

Anyone with an ounce of sense would know that eradicating racism, sexual discrimination and the like is impossible, but mitigating them and generating an atmosphere in which they are less likely to occur is possible and that is what is being aimed for here. It's simply tilting at windmills to suggest that those campaigning now are seeking a utopian mirage rather than something infinitely more achievable.

 

If feeling that you can (or want to) do nothing gives you peace with your own life, then fair enough, that's your prerogative - but it would be better if that were not used as an excuse to label the whole idea of such campaigns as inherently flawed where pretty much every major social change in history came about because one person, or a small group of people, had an idea and acted on it and campaigned for it, one way or another. Labelling that as pointless is simply mistaken.

[LCFCCHRIS]

1 hour ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

It’s this. Watch any Attenborough documentary and within 5 minutes  you’ll see there are countless species where the male dominates the female in order to reproduce and ensure the survival of the species (in the rare instances they don’t, the same is true in reverse with the female holding the power). Those same species often have to fight other males for that dominant position.

 

However, the difference in humans is that we have the intellectual capacity and understanding to overcome those primal/animalistic urges that exist and to create more equality between the genders of our species. And for 99.9% of people on our planet currently, we are the result of evolution where everything is wired correctly for us not to kill and rape etc. But for those 0.01% - either through nature or nurture - they don’t function the same way.

 

I actually thought a lot about this during the BLM stuff. For me, I perceive racism as quite a natural thing: people feel comfortable in the company of people who remind them of themselves and their own lives experiences. Where racism becomes not normal thought, is that, again, we as humans have the intellect to find different commonalities other than skin colour and to overcome those instinctive initial leanings.

 

Both with that movement and what will now become a new movement from the Sarah Everard case, you’re trying to reach a society where there is 100% ability to override those primal/instinctive urges or behaviours. The 99.9% will get there but the 0.01% never will. And the way these campaigns play out these days, all that happens is the 99.9% will shout amongst themselves whilst the 0.01% continue as they are.

 

I read a quote last year that gives me peace in not getting too worked up about the ill in the world: the highest form of wisdom is the knowledge that you have the power to change nothing.

 

It’s true. We’ll never eradicate racism. We’ll never reach a sexual discrimination or assault free society. We’ll never experience a fair and just politics. We’ll never eradicate poverty. We’ll never stop wars.

 

So all of this social media campaigning, this blaming, this labelling of privilege: it’s pointless and achieves nothing. Live your life as a good, respectful, honourable person and you’re doing what you can. Forget this performative nonsense about crossing roads, hashtags, ‘being an ally’, taking knees etc.

Excellent post. I think we can all try to squeeze that 0.01% down even lower, using the right means, but the problem I often see now is it's often percieved as some kind of blame game, and people on social media are the absolute worst for turning it into that. I think highlighting safety for women is great,  but some idiots interpret that as "men = bad" and then of course men don't like that narrative if they are a law abiding, morally 'good' person, which causes arguments which then muddy the waters of what the original issue even was!

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

Excellent post. I think we can all try to squeeze that 0.01% down even lower, using the right means, but the problem I often see now is it's often percieved as some kind of blame game, and people on social media are the absolute worst for turning it into that. I think highlighting safety for women is great,  but some idiots interpret that as "men = bad" and then of course men don't like that narrative if they are a law abiding, morally 'good' person, which causes arguments which then muddy the waters of what the original issue even was!

You highlight the key flaw in the post with this part of it.

 

Oh, and incidentally - overcoming those base human instincts isn't just a moral cause. The more diverse a species is, the more adaptable it can be. The more adaptable it is, the more likely it is to survive.

 

NB. Sorry if that didn't have too much to do with your OP, just wanted to stick an addendum in there.

[TamworthFoxes]

8 hours ago, theessexfox said:

I was at the vigil tonight, was completely fine and pretty socially distanced until the police escalated it. Just really shocking policing, no idea how they thought what they were doing would help the situation 

So you attended an illegal gathering during a pandemic but describe the policing as shocking for trying to break it up. News flash for you, it’s not shocking policing it’s what the normal general public want them to do. Ignore Twitter and the left wing mob, the average person has no sympathy for you.

It was taken to court and deemed illegal, the organisers told you to stay on your doorstep.

I’m sure you will have no complaints when lock down is extended due to actions such as these.