How good is the Premier league

[Blue Collar]

Guardiola in the after match talk: "Varane's absence has greatly affected us"

[Sol thewall Bamba]

For the amount of money that gets bounded around, the return is pretty terrible.

[UHDrive]

Globally the PL is better. Better standard of teams and revenue particularly things like tv rights over the spanish league.

[Fox92]

56 minutes ago, shailen said:

If you're looking at the finalists of the champions league, Spain are and have been the best representatives over the last 10 years and probably Italy were before that. 

 

English clubs have done okay and we had a good spell around 2008 - 2012 and in the last few years but we're not the best representatives. 

 

In terms of entertainment, the Premier league is the best. There is no doubt, we have the most exciting league. Given all the money that is in our game, we should also be the best in Europe but we have underperformed, and I think a lot of that is to do with tactical elements of the game. I find teams from other countries, more tactically shrewed in the way they set up and know their limitations. 

Better sides then? I mean, there's a lot of talk about players now being the best the PL has ever seen. Players like KDB. Yeah they turn up in the PL, might knock loads in past poor bottom half sides, but I've not seen them do anything in the CL to justify they are supposedly better than certain players 10-15 years ago. 

 

Man Utd in that era with Rooney/Ronaldo/Tevez up top were lethal. They would match Man City's team now but people forget and we just hear how Man City/Liverpool are supposedly the best teams we've ever seen in England.

[shailen]

35 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Better sides then? I mean, there's a lot of talk about players now being the best the PL has ever seen. Players like KDB. Yeah they turn up in the PL, might knock loads in past poor bottom half sides, but I've not seen them do anything in the CL to justify they are supposedly better than certain players 10-15 years ago. 

 

Man Utd in that era with Rooney/Ronaldo/Tevez up top were lethal. They would match Man City's team now but people forget and we just hear how Man City/Liverpool are supposedly the best teams we've ever seen in England.

I think so. We had two seasons (07/08 and 08/09) where 3/4 teams in the champions league semi finals were English. 

 

That Man Utd team without doubt were at a similar level to this current Man City team, but they weren't together for long enough. Ronaldo and Tevez left. Saying that they won two PLs, got to two CL finals and won one, and won a league Cup. They were able to compete in all competitions which Man City have not been able to do in Europe, and Liverpool haven't competed in all competitions simultaneously they've been in either. 

 

We had more top teams then as well with Chelsea having Drogba/Anelka/Lampard, Arsenal having Van Persie/Cesc/Adebayor, Liverpool having Alonso/Gerrard/Torres. All of them at the time could be classed as being top players. This was thwarted by the emergence of Barca and the power shifted to Spain but we had the best teams in the world for those two or three seasons. 

[ealingfox]

#farmersleague

[Phube]

No one’s mentioned the fact that the the four semi-finalists are from Germany and France at the expense of English, Spainish and Italian teams. 
Coincidentally the three countries who have played 10+ games from Mid-June.
 

France - bugger all and Germany finished on the 27th June.

 

It might just be a factor in the results!?

 

[Finnegan]

It's a pointless argument as subjective as Biggest Clubs that's only perpetuated by Sky's advertising. It doesn't mean anything. 

 

What does best even mean? Most succesful in Europe? In which case, how anyone can argue for anything other than Spain baffles me, even with the last two years buttsliding. 

 

Most entertaining? Again that's hugely subjective, every league has shit games and great games. 

 

The Premier League is objectively the wealthiest that's undeniable. It doesn't mean anything though if the clubs are pissing money away on rubbish and there's a finite number of CL slots in every league which is a huge draw for players. 

 

So, eh. 

 

Bottom line is, we should probably all stop dismissing leagues as "shit", learn to look at any player and team with an open mind and judge them on their merits. Whether that's their outright quality or their entertainment value. There's people on this forum that proactively like watching the MLS, the A League and the SPL. 

 

Maybe to them, those are the best leagues. 

 

Edited 16 August 2020 by Finnegan

[z-layrex]

46 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

It's a pointless argument as subjective as Biggest Clubs that's only perpetuated by Sky's advertising. It doesn't mean anything. 

 

What does best even mean? Most succesful in Europe? In which case, how anyone can argue for anything other than Spain baffles me, even with the last two years buttsliding. 

 

Most entertaining? Again that's hugely subjective, every league has shit games and great games. 

 

The Premier League is objectively the wealthiest that's undeniable. It doesn't mean anything though if the clubs are pissing money away on rubbish and there's a finite number of CL slots in every league which is a huge draw for players. 

 

So, eh. 

 

Bottom line is, we should probably all stop dismissing leagues as "shit", learn to look at any player and team with an open mind and judge them on their merits. Whether that's their outright quality or their entertainment value. There's people on this forum that proactively like watching the MLS, the A League and the SPL. 

 

Maybe to them, those are the best leagues. 

 

lol.

[Guest An Sionnach]

43 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

It's a pointless argument as subjective as Biggest Clubs that's only perpetuated by Sky's advertising. It doesn't mean anything. 

 

What does best even mean? Most succesful in Europe? In which case, how anyone can argue for anything other than Spain baffles me, even with the last two years buttsliding. 

 

Most entertaining? Again that's hugely subjective, every league has shit games and great games. 

 

The Premier League is objectively the wealthiest that's undeniable. It doesn't mean anything though if the clubs are pissing money away on rubbish and there's a finite number of CL slots in every league which is a huge draw for players. 

 

So, eh. 

 

Bottom line is, we should probably all stop dismissing leagues as "shit", learn to look at any player and team with an open mind and judge them on their merits. Whether that's their outright quality or their entertainment value. There's people on this forum that proactively like watching the MLS, the A League and the SPL. 

 

Maybe to them, those are the best leagues. 

 

Liverpool are in the very top tier of world football ,though even they get beaten, the rest from Man. City downwards are nothing outstanding . Neither are Real Madrid , Barcelona or Juve. by the way. Why? not much quality around at the moment. All the top players, except for Mbappe are ageing.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Phube said:

No one’s mentioned the fact that the the four semi-finalists are from Germany and France at the expense of English, Spainish and Italian teams. 
Coincidentally the three countries who have played 10+ games from Mid-June.
 

France - bugger all and Germany finished on the 27th June.

 

It might just be a factor in the results!?

 

You could quite easily make the argument English and Spanish teams were still in a 'rhythm' or 'routine' not having to have had to start, stop, break then start again.

 

I'm sure the slow games (Throughout the individual leagues) after the restart were simply put down to teams having to start again, get their match fitness and sharpness up.

 

Anyway to answer the question, i'm going down a similar road as Finnegan to give a short answer my view is if you mean good as in competitive then i'd say yes, if you mean good in terms of quality, i'd say no, the quality has been lacking. Exciting matches? We do get them in this league but I think alot of games are boring but that's because a majority of teams insist on playing and follow Pep's way - Teams need to start being the exception and not the rule, stop being sheep.

 

Edited 16 August 2020 by Matt

[dayday]

17 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Oh for goodness sakes.

[Leeds Fox]

18 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Yep that's my take on it too. It is interesting though that the French teams who should in theory be the most out of shape fitness wise have done the best, given their league was called off so long ago.

 

It's surely Bayern's to lose now though, they have been the best team both pre and post lockdown in the competition.

They’re much less likely to be absolutely burnt out too. Swings and roundabouts on this one. 

[Corky]

I think there's still a belief, in the media mainly, that other leagues have one or two good teams and the rest are well behind and thus can't compete with ours. Of course the likes of Bayern, Juventus, PSG and the Spanish giants dominate their leagues but Atletico Madrid, Dortmund, Leipzig, Sevilla, Lyon, Roma, Ajax must be doing something right to reach the latter stages. 

 

Anyone can lose a one-off match, too. Man City lost to Norwich and Southampton this season, why is Lyon beating them unthinkable?

[UHDrive]

6 hours ago, Finnegan said:

It's a pointless argument as subjective as Biggest Clubs that's only perpetuated by Sky's advertising. It doesn't mean anything. 

 

What does best even mean? Most succesful in Europe? In which case, how anyone can argue for anything other than Spain baffles me, even with the last two years buttsliding. 

 

Most entertaining? Again that's hugely subjective, every league has shit games and great games. 

 

The Premier League is objectively the wealthiest that's undeniable. It doesn't mean anything though if the clubs are pissing money away on rubbish and there's a finite number of CL slots in every league which is a huge draw for players. 

 

So, eh. 

 

Bottom line is, we should probably all stop dismissing leagues as "shit", learn to look at any player and team with an open mind and judge them on their merits. Whether that's their outright quality or their entertainment value. There's people on this forum that proactively like watching the MLS, the A League and the SPL. 

 

Maybe to them, those are the best leagues. 

 

It has nothing to do with dismissing leugues as "shit". Its a forum with peoples opinions on where they see European leagues in a wide range of variants. 

[Sly]

If you look at the 10 best players in the world, I’d argue that they’re now scattered across 5 divisions. This wasn’t the case a few years ago.

 

The Messi / Ronaldo era is drawing to a close. 

 

I actually prefer the 1 leg format for the Champions League. I wish the entire competition was like this. It’s what gives the FA cup magic. When a giant killing happens in the FA Cup, it’s great. It’s just happened in the Europe since the restart. I think the top 7 - 8 overall in the Premier League, are comfortably better than the top 7 - 8 in the other top leagues. 
 

Saying that, I’d point to PSG and Bayern in particular, have grown in stature.

 

[Sly]

In fact, maybe 3 divisions. I can’t think of 1 players from Italy I’d have in my top 10. Ronaldo / Messi I don’t make the cut any longer for me.
 

M’bappeé, Sterling, Neymar, Mané, Salah, Kane, KDB, TAA, VVD, Sancho.

 

Edited 16 August 2020 by Sly

[Corky]

Problem is that Sevilla are just too good for the English apart from certain clubs and managers 

[Dan]

This season it was weak. Liverpool are a very good team but they had it way too easy for a lot of it. So few proper challenging grounds for them to go to. I'm discounting late season as well as they'd already won it. I think the fact it was the media darlings Liverpool's first title in many a year is why nobody in the media will say it.

 

It doesn't surprise me though - when you look through the leagues best teams, what do you actually have this year?

 

Manchester City had a bit of an off season. Manchester United were poor for a lot of the season. have a manager out of his depth and only recovered it because of a good signing in January and dodgy officiating. Chelsea were weakened by default and also have a manager who only has the job because he used to play for them, as well as having a transfer ban. Tottenham were dreadful for large parts. Arsenal were dreadful for large parts. Then you have us - a good side for half a season but dreadful for the rest of it. A hit and miss Wolves, then what?

 

I just don't think this was a particularly strong Premier League and what happened in Europe kind of backs that up. If you're going to champion the strength of the league based on four all English finalists (which is a fair argument) then you'll have to slate it for this year.

 

The truth is if PSG had gotten 99 points, only dropped about 2 points until the final quarter of the season, been knocked out of the Champions League by Atletico Madrid and the rest of the French teams floundered in Europe, Ligue 1 would get slated. You can't have it both ways.

Edited 17 August 2020 by Dan LCFC

[Dan]

6 hours ago, UHDrive said:

It has nothing to do with dismissing leugues as "shit". Its a forum with peoples opinions on where they see European leagues in a wide range of variants. 

It happens a lot though. I do think there is this ingrained belief from many that the Premier League is without any doubt the strongest. I think the PL and La Liga are the two best but as others have said I don't think it's as clear cut as people think. I think in general people in England are hard on other leagues, which is weird given the majority of the best players over here came from them.

[Lambert09]

These arguments always annoy me. Football is unpredictable, that’s why we love it. 

 

Lets not kid ourselves if man city played that game 10 times they’d probably qualify 7/8 times. 

[Tom12345]

On 16/08/2020 at 13:33, adejo92 said:

Most competitive league in the world. The others don't come close.

Exactly.

 

What is so good about the EPL is that any team can beat any other team on its day. The top 6 or 8 are so competitive that any game amongst those teams is usually quite entertaining.

 

For La Liga, it is only Barca and Real, with maybe Athletic Madrid as an occasional challenger. So boring and predictable, even though the football can be exquisite at the highest level. 

 

It is similarly the case with Bayern in Germany and Juventus in Italy in recent years.  

[RonnieTodger]

1 hour ago, Tom12345 said:

Exactly.

 

What is so good about the EPL is that any team can beat any other team on its day. The top 6 or 8 are so competitive that any game amongst those teams is usually quite entertaining.

 

For La Liga, it is only Barca and Real, with maybe Athletic Madrid as an occasional challenger. So boring and predictable, even though the football can be exquisite at the highest level. 

 

It is similarly the case with Bayern in Germany and Juventus in Italy in recent years.  

So is the Premier League. Sure, our title was fantastic but it was an anomaly. The PL is becoming just as boring as those. In the last three seasons, the league winners have finished on 100, 97 and 99 points. That's not competitive.

 

It's a myth that smaller clubs can't win a game against Barcelona and Real Madrid. How boring is it when you see that Man City are 5-0 up at home to Burnley/Brighton every year? 

Also if the Premier League is so great, why does it never attract world stars at their prime? 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 hour ago, Tom12345 said:

For La Liga, it is only Barca and Real, with maybe Athletic Madrid as an occasional challenger. So boring and predictable, even though the football can be exquisite at the highest level. 

Replace Barca with Man City, Real with Liverpool and Atletico (not ATHletico) with Man Utd and that's what we have here no? 

[Finnegan]

I appreciate Bayern won the league but if you think this Bundesliga season was more boring and predictable than the Premier League you'd be delusional. 

 

Liverpool had basically won the league by Christmas, they've utterly smashed it. 

 

Until COVID came along this Bundesliga season had been one of the most exciting league seasons I've ever seen. Granted after lockdown Bayern came back in sicko mode a la Martial/Rashford/Bruno and they've utterly smashed it but up until that point it was close as all fvck. 

 

At Christmas in Germany, any one of about six teams could have been eventual champions. The top half was split by about one fifth the amount of points Liverpool had on 4th.

 

I get there's a certain amount of tired predictability about Bayern rising to the adversity and ending up eventually winning anyway but we used to have that every season in England with Ferguson so, yknow, swings and roundabouts. 

 

 

Edit: and to be clear, I'm not saying the Bundesliga is thus inherently better. It's not, watching Dortmund blow up for the millionth time and eventually giving Bayern the title does get old. I just think people drink too much of the kool aid when it comes to buying Premier League propaganda about excitement.

 

It's a tough sell when you're sat watching Everton and Burnley bore each other to sleep on a Sunday afternoon but we all forget that because the whole "best league" argument is supposed to bring out the competitive jingoist in us all.

 

Edited 17 August 2020 by Finnegan