Cengiz Signs!

[moore_94]

59 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Little mention of MUSA too ... 

 

 

Hope Keogh absolute rinses them (a load of money that they can't afford to pay anyway)

[Ric Flair]

Have some of this for a grotty stat. In 32 PL games between them this season Perez and Albrighton have produced 1 goal and 2 assists.

 

Sickening. 

[UHDrive]

18 hours ago, SO1 said:

Not really. He's been asked the same question several times. I'm sure Rodgers has said that to him face to face. If Under is embarrassed by that then he's in the wrong line of work. Rodgers is communicating with grown up's not children. We should all be so lucky to have a boss who talks straight and doesn't carry hidden agendas.

It's nothing to do with grown ups and children, it's how far you go when you are publicly polititisizing someone. If that is the case then they should've placed him in the development squad for the remainder of his season long loan and see if he'd improve under those circumstances, there are plenty of big clubs doing that at the moment. I've always advocated BR's openness, but as with any job and industry, there comes a time when you can take a tiny step too far. It also doesn't set a good precedent for other players looking on. Anyway, we are talking fine margins on this debate because I agree with the point you are making.

[UHDrive]

17 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Daley-Campbell should play more.

 

Not because I have anything to base that on, just that I want to see him given a chance.

 

See how ridiculous that is.

 

Under shouldn't play more because the team is doing just fine without him. 

That's sensible. Seeing as we have no cover in that position and it's been our weak position for some time now 🤔

[Ric Flair]

24 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Have some of this for a grotty stat. In 32 PL games between them this season Perez and Albrighton have produced 1 goal and 2 assists.

 

Sickening. 

Yes I'm quoting my own stat but I think some people need to wake up and understand why there's a section of fans that question the current team. Albrighton is having a stunning season and yet he still doesn't bring many goals or assists. Perez is even worse than last season which is astonishing but he is. Last season right wing was our weakness and yet here we are a season on, the 2 players who play there are producing less goals and assists and the player who was brought in to improve that weak area barely gets a sniff in the league. 

 

Rodgers pragmatism has occurred due to the dilapidated squad we had at the start of the season and the poor results we got vs the top sides. I respect these changes in principle and as it stands we are every bit as competitive at the top of the table as we were up to the same point last season. I just hope he knows when to go for it and when to batten down the hatches. We were guilty last season of having no answer to our slump and even in our more compact and pragmatic system there's a place for Ünder in certain games or as a replacement for a tiring Barnes or pony Perez. 

[UHDrive]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes I'm quoting my own stat but I think some people need to wake up and understand why there's a section of fans that question the current team. Albrighton is having a stunning season and yet he still doesn't bring many goals or assists. Perez is even worse than last season which is astonishing but he is. Last season right wing was our weakness and yet here we are a season on, the 2 players who play there are producing less goals and assists and the player who was brought in to improve that weak area barely gets a sniff in the league. 

 

Rodgers pragmatism has occurred due to the dilapidated squad we had at the start of the season and the poor results we got vs the top sides. I respect these changes in principle and as it stands we are every bit as competitive at the top of the table as we were up to the same point last season. I just hope he knows when to go for it and when to batten down the hatches. We were guilty last season of having no answer to our slump and even in our more compact and pragmatic system there's a place for Ünder in certain games or as a replacement for a tiring Barnes or pony Perez. 

Maybe we should call him donkey from shrek, he goes around in circles as well.

[Countryfox]

5 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Firstly, if different people keep replying, it more likely I'll keep replying to each new one as they probably offer a different view. Secondly, I'm not the only one replying to them. Thirdly, I accept can have different opinions, but things like saying "he should play more" are not opinions. Should is a definitive term, not an opinion. So for a team currently tracking above expectation, no fringe player "should" be playing more. He could play more, totally agree with that, but should he play more, no.

 

Well done Flannel  ...    still at the wicket and knocking sixes all over the forum  !!!     

 

Tbh I get the bit about people having their opinions on whether he should be playing more, even though Brendan has explained the situation ...   and I get there are some who, perhaps follow the player and not the team, and spout ..  well ...  odd things ! ...   but I don't get the criticism of BR for explaining why he picks certain players over others ...   and it should be done in private ..   ridiculous !!!    

[HighPeakFox]

I'd like to add a small, but important corrective, and one that demonstrates the need to read carefully. BR has at no point said he's doesn't track back, or is not good enough. What he said was that he hasn't yet learnt how to do it (with the inference specifically being the way BR wants it done). Whilst the inference that BR is saying negative things is easy to take, he's trying very hard to develop and influence a 23 year old from a different culture, who's had injuries and been playing in Italy. As Maddison said, if you don't do the dirty work you don't play, and perhaps he isn't fit enough, or mentally ready yet. Of course, he might just not fancy it either, and only time will tell. 

 

And on the subject of Italy, it is interesting how many players we've signed from there have struggled to adapt - presumably to the pace of the game here. Castagne is an exception, but Atalanta are very untypical of what Italian teams produce.

Edited 10 February 2021 by HighPeakFox

[Dahnsouff]

 Cengiz gets bum’s off seats (metaphorically obviously) and that gets fans excited, therefore want to see more, but I remain wholly unconvinced that this romantic idea that going mental and chucking everything into a more gung-ho approach will get us over the line, in fact, I think such an approach will undo us. 

[Sunbury Fox]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes I'm quoting my own stat but I think some people need to wake up and understand why there's a section of fans that question the current team. Albrighton is having a stunning season and yet he still doesn't bring many goals or assists. Perez is even worse than last season which is astonishing but he is. Last season right wing was our weakness and yet here we are a season on, the 2 players who play there are producing less goals and assists and the player who was brought in to improve that weak area barely gets a sniff in the league. 

 

Rodgers pragmatism has occurred due to the dilapidated squad we had at the start of the season and the poor results we got vs the top sides. I respect these changes in principle and as it stands we are every bit as competitive at the top of the table as we were up to the same point last season. I just hope he knows when to go for it and when to batten down the hatches. We were guilty last season of having no answer to our slump and even in our more compact and pragmatic system there's a place for Ünder in certain games or as a replacement for a tiring Barnes or pony Perez. 

This is what I was saying earlier in the thread. It's all very well for some to say we're doing really well, why do we need to try playing Ünder? But the fact is that we are getting very little from the RW position in material outputs and that is holding us back, especially in tight matches when a bit of magic can be crucial to turning a draw into a win. Ünder is also hardly some young kid from the under 23s or a signing from a lower division team. He's one of the star players for a respectable national team and has had significant and pretty successful high level experience at club level from his time at Roma. Surely there is a pretty reasonable chance he will be better than our other RW options, given a run of games? Jeez, it wouldn't be hard! So there really is nothing to lose by throwing him in, we can only potentially gain, I think.

Edited 10 February 2021 by Sunbury Fox

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

Quoting Albrighton assists does him a disservice he's been heavily involved in a large proportion of our goals lately due to his good work and quality on the ball. Motm stuff arguably so why would you want to replace him with an unknown that apparently can't defend. 

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Quoting Albrighton assists does him a disservice he's been heavily involved in a large proportion of our goals lately due to his good work and quality on the ball. Motm stuff arguably so why would you want to replace him with an unknown that apparently can't defend. 

Thank you, you put that better than I could. Stats only mean so much - there's really no getting away from how much Kevin brings to the team this season.

[HankMarvin]

7 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Firstly, if different people keep replying, it more likely I'll keep replying to each new one as they probably offer a different view. Secondly, I'm not the only one replying to them. Thirdly, I accept can have different opinions, but things like saying "he should play more" are not opinions. Should is a definitive term, not an opinion. So for a team currently tracking above expectation, no fringe player "should" be playing more. He could play more, totally agree with that, but should he play more, no.

Fans expressing their opinion on a forum isn’t moaning, yet you said it about 3 times.

If you delve a little deeper the majority have not just said he should play. But offered reasons and suggestions as to why he should and why he isn’t.

[OhYesNdidi]

23 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Quoting Albrighton assists does him a disservice he's been heavily involved in a large proportion of our goals lately due to his good work and quality on the ball. Motm stuff arguably so why would you want to replace him with an unknown that apparently can't defend. 

I like Albrighton but he is in the team to score / assist. His numbers do need to improve. 

[Dahnsouff]

38 minutes ago, Sunbury Fox said:

This is what I was saying earlier in the thread. It's all very well for some to say we're doing really well, why do we need to try playing Ünder? But the fact is that we are getting very little from the RW position in material outputs and that is holding us back, especially in tight matches when a bit of magic can be crucial to turning a draw into a win. Ünder is also hardly some young kid from the under 23s or a signing from a lower division team. He's one of the star players for a respectable national team and has had significant and pretty successful high level experience at club level from his time at Roma. Surely there is a pretty reasonable chance he will be better than our other RW options, given a run of games? Jeez, it wouldn't be hard! So there really is nothing to lose by throwing him in, we can only potentially gain, I think.

Here is my problem. Why is it even slightly reasonable, let alone pretty reasonable? Its guess work and looking for changes in a perceived shortfall. You say talk about material outputs, but isn`t what you mean outputs as you perceive their need?

 

I personally would love to see more of Cengiz, love for him to be an epiphany and light up the second half of our season, but the question then is, what are the chances? And make no mistake, it is only a chance, and what are the downsides of giving him this chance?

 

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

 Cengiz gets bum’s off seats (metaphorically obviously) and that gets fans excited, therefore want to see more, but I remain wholly unconvinced that this romantic idea that going mental and chucking everything into a more gung-ho approach will get us over the line, in fact, I think such an approach will undo us. 

...no one is saying that!!!

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...no one is saying that!!!

...yes they are, they want change as imagine it will improve us despite no evidence to support it, sounds pretty gung ho to me

[KingsX]

“We are doing fine without him, so carry on” is not an argument.  It’s boring to keep seeing without more substance.  There is a good argument for giving him enough minutes to show what he has.

 

- while it’s a fine XI, RW is the position that most needs strengthened.

- there’s so many games and muscle injuries, we are desperate for depth even at our strongest positions.

- we’ve lost or drawn matches, where if our shot production wasn’t minimal we might have gained points.

- per both his CV and the eye test, he’s a very promising RW, so let’s have a proper look to see if we should buy him in June.

 

I read Brendan's latest comments about Cengiz as a firm but carefully worded motivational nudge, a ploy he'll be likeliest to use when he is ready to play him.  Hope I'm right.

[HankMarvin]

13 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

...yes they are, they want change as imagine it will improve us despite no evidence to support it, sounds pretty gung ho to me

It could be argued, that teams will cotton on to the fact that Albrighton is adding a defensive layer further up the field. So exploit the opposite side instead. Having a viable option if this occurs would be someone that offers goals and assists from the right. Based on the numbers provided this isn’t really going to be Albrighton or Perez. So whats the harm in giving Under more minutes in games we are either winning comfortably in or losing convincingly in to gain more experience if he is called upon.

It doesn’t have to be a “Gung Ho” approach from the start.

 

Edited 10 February 2021 by HankMarvin

[gurru991]

47 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Quoting Albrighton assists does him a disservice he's been heavily involved in a large proportion of our goals lately due to his good work and quality on the ball. Motm stuff arguably so why would you want to replace him with an unknown that apparently can't defend. 

Assists counts for players can be a very misleading stat. Many times passes are made that are instrumental to goals being scored but the player does not get an assist for the pass due the sequence of the play. In Ice Hockey there are two assists given for each goal !

[fuchsntf]

23 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

I like Albrighton but he is in the team to score / assist. His numbers do need to improve. 

Hes been responsible for the pressing..both forward/attack  winning balls,picking up 2nd ball & Loose balls....fed the  assist on many occasions...

Something Gray found difficult to do....

Its the blood & Guts of the game that many miss....

Something Stats doesn't See but Coaches do...!!

 

[OhYesNdidi]

1 minute ago, fuchsntf said:

Hes been responsible for the pressing..both forward/attack  winning balls,picking up 2nd ball & Loose balls....fed the  assist on many occasions...

Something Gray found difficult to do....

Its the blood & Guts of the game that many miss....

Something Stats doesn't See but Coaches do...!!

 

Gray was not good enough in any department, which is why he is no longer at the club. How about compare him to barnes instead? 

[fuchsntf]

42 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

Gray was not good enough in any department, which is why he is no longer at the club. How about compare him to barnes instead? 

Both Puel & Rodgers just happen to mentions the right Side ..(Sorry ) Intensity inconsistencies  on the  occasions they tried Gray/A.n.other.

Rodgers even mentions Albrightons reliability twice...last season & again Early this season..Then dropped Single hints through this season...

I am Not sure, but it seems he prefer Barnes in the left, though we have seen Barnes Early on, Not so much Now on the right,or middle-right..

In Rodgers earlier months he tested his squad with Gray-Barnes, occasionally then with Perez, it seems Albrighton is his go to when he wants

or gives something more specific...Bit

I have said in the past & will mention it probably on more occasions Managers Dont or rarely See the team/squad Situation like the fans....

Edited 10 February 2021 by fuchsntf

[KingsX]

35 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

Assists counts for players can be a very misleading stat. Many times passes are made that are instrumental to goals being scored but the player does not get an assist for the pass due the sequence of the play. In Ice Hockey there are two assists given for each goal !

 

Agree, the best thing about Albrighton's recent attacking play has been the hockey assists.  I wish I could find that stat for football.

 

Maybe worth noting that he leads the club in big chances created (with 5, still only tied for 20th in the PL).  Under has 3 in his very minimal minutes, as many as Maddison.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

It was less than maybe a month ago Kevin was still getting dogs abuse on here for having the audacity to be in the match day squad. Now he's turning in 8 out of 10 performances most weeks and he's still nowhere near good enough for some. We'll bloody miss him when he retires/steps down a level eventually. Nobody wants to stand still but we're talking about getting rid of one of our most important players and for what? Fashion? Unfavourable stats even though you can quite comfortably see his importance with your own eyes?