New Champions League format from 2024

[what?]

1 minute ago, nnfox said:

Actually I would disagree a little bit here.  In a capitalist system, you are rewarded for having a good product (trophies and promotion) and punished for having a poor one (relegation).  Regardless of who you are you can compete, though it might not be easy, and it is possible that you can take a seat at the top table and enjoy success (Leicester City). The problem is, that clubs who rely on the success have to miss out if someone takes their place.

 

The Super League is designed to be the opposite of that.  15 clubs who will share all the wealth between them, regardless of competition and in the process, stick two fingers up at the rest of us.

 

That's not capitalism, that's something else.

That's one way to be rewarded yes. Just like if you're a starting a mobile phone company you'll try to be technologically innovative and create something that is better than the competition. But it's also the hardest and least secure way to succeed. When you're big enough and rich enough you no longer have an economic imperative to succeed that way because you can just use your wealth and power to rig the game to your benefit. That's why 30 years of neoliberalism have left us not with a dynamic marketplace of small companies jostling for position by creating out of need but rather giant monopolies who secure their position by just buying up competition and exerting influence where they need to. Obviously sport as a field can't completely monopolise because you need at least one other team to compete against so I see your point ini that regard, but the motivation behind this move is absolutely compatible with and born from the laws of competition which underpin capitalism. 

[Grebfromgrebland]

This pandemic proved that you don't need fans and that they're largely irrelevant.

[Guest ttfn]

2 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

This pandemic proved that you don't need fans and that they're largely irrelevant.

I think it’s proved the total opposite myself

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

This pandemic proved that you don't need fans and that they're largely irrelevant.

Agreed, how was 40/60/100,000 fans in the stadium, with all its overheads and headaches, ever going to compete with several million who can just click a button and watch  

[Chocolate Teapot]

11 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Agreed, how was 40/60/100,000 fans in the stadium, with all its overheads and headaches, ever going to compete with several million who can just click a button and watch  

Clubs aren't exactly posting profits right now....

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Clubs aren't exactly posting profits right now....

Was basing the judgement on now clearly

[demon_dog]

One simple way to kill this idea dead.

UEFA the PL and other countries sporting bodies make a stand and refuse to accept any player registration from the offending clubs.

This will stop players transfers, in addition will prevent players playing for their country.

 

[what?]

I don't know much about the PFA, how political they are. I assume not very. A shame as they could stop this in a second with a strike. Imagine the beautiful scenes of players and fans joining a picket and blocking entry to the grounds. All that value that the money men are trying to protect evaporates pretty quick once the players decide they're not going to cooperate. I know they're absurdly wealthy but they are still waged workers when you get down to brass tacks. 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, nnfox said:

 

That's not capitalism, that's something else.

 

"A cartel is a group of independent market participants who collude with each other in order to improve their profits and dominate the market. Cartels are usually associations in the same sphere of business, and thus an alliance of rivals. Most jurisdictions consider it anti-competitive behavior and have outlawed such practices. Cartel behavior includes price fixing, bid rigging, and reductions in output. Cartels are distinguished from other forms of collusion or anti-competitive organization such as corporate mergers".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel

[rachhere]

9 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

"A cartel is a group of independent market participants who collude with each other in order to improve their profits and dominate the market. Cartels are usually associations in the same sphere of business, and thus an alliance of rivals. Most jurisdictions consider it anti-competitive behavior and have outlawed such practices. Cartel behavior includes price fixing, bid rigging, and reductions in output. Cartels are distinguished from other forms of collusion or anti-competitive organization such as corporate mergers".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel

Seems a pretty tight definition of what is happening here. 

[rachhere]

18 minutes ago, what? said:

I don't know much about the PFA, how political they are. I assume not very. A shame as they could stop this in a second with a strike. Imagine the beautiful scenes of players and fans joining a picket and blocking entry to the grounds. All that value that the money men are trying to protect evaporates pretty quick once the players decide they're not going to cooperate. I know they're absurdly wealthy but they are still waged workers when you get down to brass tacks. 

You need the biggest players in the world uniting together and taking a stand on this. Hopefully there's things happening behind the scenes. 

[Babylon]

How can Uefa moan about the breakaway and then sign off a deal that isn't that much bloody different. Wild card entries, more money for the big boys. It's all total and utter bollocks. 

[Innovindil]

3 minutes ago, Babylon said:

How can Uefa moan about the breakaway and then sign off a deal that isn't that much bloody different. Wild card entries, more money for the big boys. It's all total and utter bollocks. 

Because in one of those scenarios uefa are making the cash. Simple as that. 

 

All ****ing corrupt from top to bottom. 

[Nalis]

4 minutes ago, Babylon said:

How can Uefa moan about the breakaway and then sign off a deal that isn't that much bloody different. Wild card entries, more money for the big boys. It's all total and utter bollocks. 

Lesser of two evils sadly isnt it?

[Vestan Pance]

Apparently the EU will be releasing a statement on this in the next 2-3 years

[ajthefox]

The announcement of the super league today on the same day as this shite is approved is blatant smoke and mirrors. Some fans don't even know that this is happening and that the first step towards football without merit based achievements has already started with the "wildcard spots".

This is a gateway to the super league. Football as we know it is well and truly on it's last legs imo.

[1994fox]

4 hours ago, nnfox said:

Actually I would disagree a little bit here.  In a capitalist system, you are rewarded for having a good product (trophies and promotion) and punished for having a poor one (relegation).  Regardless of who you are you can compete, though it might not be easy, and it is possible that you can take a seat at the top table and enjoy success (Leicester City). The problem is, that clubs who rely on the success have to miss out if someone takes their place.

 

The Super League is designed to be the opposite of that.  15 clubs who will share all the wealth between them, regardless of competition and in the process, stick two fingers up at the rest of us.

 

That's not capitalism, that's something else.

Monopolistic, anti-competitive and cartel-like behaviour are all a product of an unchecked and unregulated capitalist system.

[nnfox]

24 minutes ago, 1994fox said:

Monopolistic, anti-competitive and cartel-like behaviour are all a product of an unchecked and unregulated capitalist system.

At the base of all this is the very human trait of greed.  Of course, capitalism plays a part and sows the seed of what we are now seeing, it is an imperfect system, but once the cartel is formed, the anti-competition, distribution of funds for their own interests actually, I would venture to say, display more of a socialist system...

 

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

[enmac]

On 30/03/2021 at 11:05, Paddy. said:

Champions League 2024: New format with 10-match first phase set to be agreed - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56573883

 

Put this here as hopefully we'll be in it!

 

The 'wild card' rule is disgusting in my opinion. What an absolute joke. 

Wonder if Villa and Derby County will qualify as wild cards? They've both won it unlike Spurs and Arsenal. 

[enmac]

1 minute ago, enmac said:

Wonder if Villa and Derby County will qualify as wild cards? They've both won it unlike Spurs and Arsenal. 

Sorry. Forest not Derby! 

[enmac]

City's coefficient means we're ranked 7th in the PL, but higher than Inter Milan's, previous winners! 

 

https://www.football-coefficient.eu/#table-club-coefficients

[1994fox]

15 minutes ago, nnfox said:

At the base of all this is the very human trait of greed.  Of course, capitalism plays a part and sows the seed of what we are now seeing, it is an imperfect system, but once the cartel is formed, the anti-competition, distribution of funds for their own interests actually, I would venture to say, display more of a socialist system...

 

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

In my opinion the creating of a closed system where a few elite clubs have guaranteed profits/returns and no threat of relegation is football reaching its capitalistic end game. 

 

It is quite the opposite of the definition of socialism you quoted - being owned and regulated "by the community". The community in this definition is the whole world of football, not just this closed system of a few rich clubs. 

 

[Osavo]

5 hours ago, ttfn said:

I think it’s proved the total opposite myself

This. Why else would fake crowd noise be pumped over the top of every TV broadcast? 

 

Without fans the game is a far poorer spectacle, I think everyone would agree that. It's soulless. I did think that maybe this pandemic would help those at the top to understand that, but clearly that hope was misplaced.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Load of shit.

[bovril]

2 hours ago, Osavo said:

This. Why else would fake crowd noise be pumped over the top of every TV broadcast? 

 

Without fans the game is a far poorer spectacle, I think everyone would agree that. It's soulless. I did think that maybe this pandemic would help those at the top to understand that, but clearly that hope was misplaced.

I think what he was saying is that for the clubs, the fans don't matter that much. Obviously as supporters it's shit