Southgate stay or go

[Pliskin]

Allow him a shot at the WC. He’s got to grow some bollocks though. Let’s not get carried away the bloke was bobbins at Boro, and does show a lack of ability to manage a game properly, especially when it comes down to the big games…. His decisions for the penalties alone cannot be defended.  

 

 But it’s clear he is liked by the group and is clearly a good guy to have around. But, there’s absolutely no reason why this team can’t win a major trophy, mess the WC up and it’s time for him to go. 

[Foxxed]

His inability to manage egos, and why I suspect he refused to play Grealish until too late and why he refused to let Grealish take a penalty, is the sign of a special manager too.
 

But while the Premier League sucks up all the money from grassroots football then he’ll be the best English manager we’ll get.

 

Somewhere a child is looking up to Southgate’s achievements, learning from his tactics, aiming to emulate him. My only solace is that by the time his playing career has ended, he’s managed for a decade or so, and finally been called up to the England job I’ll probably be dead.

[Ricey]

He's not perfect, but I do think he's a very good international manager on the whole.

 

I think he got 99% of this tournament spot on, as he did in 2018. He realised the key to progressing and competing against teams who are better on the ball than us was to ensure our defence was solid. Without world class defenders and with most players arriving late to the camp due to the CL final he managed to achieve that, and then some.

 

He constantly made tactical decisions and team selections that went against popular opinion and that he would have been vilified for if they back fired. But the majority worked out perfectly to the point where no one could doubt that they were the right thing to do. Not a lot of people before the tournament would have wanted to start Sterling, Phillips, Shaw, Trippier, Saka etc but Southgate did and they were some of our best performers throughout. His gambles consistently paid off. 

 

More importantly for me though he's created a culture and atmosphere around this team that I've never seen before. He's created and bonded a group together that are genuinely likeable and decent young footballers. The way he's handled the delicate and divisive moments, such as the players taking the knee and the racist abuse has been exemplary. I'm proud that's he's the England manager and I'm proud that those players are representing my country on the pitch. That doesn't win you tournaments, but it's almost as important to me. 

 

He made mistakes on Sunday, I don't think there's any doubt about that. The plan was to counter attack Italy but in the second half we were absolutely abysmal at that. He could and should have changed it after they scored and he had some players on the bench that were perfect for counter attacking such as Sancho, Grealish and Rashford but he didn't do it, for whatever reason. I hope he learns from that and I hope he learns there is a time for pragmatism and a time to throw caution to the wind. 1-1 with 20 minuets to go in a Euro final at Wembley, with Italy dominating and pinning you in your half was the time to make a substantial, positive change. He had armoury in reserve, but he was hesitant to use it whilst were weren't behind in the game.

 

I hope he does learn from that. He generally has learnt from his mistakes, but the comparisons on Sunday to how the Croatia match in 2018 played out are equally startling and frustrating.

 

His level-headedness and ability to not get carried away are probably what have got us to a semi and a final, but ultimately it's probably what cost us the chance to get over the line in both instances. I'll take that though. On the whole the positives far out way the negatives.

[CosbehFox]

Very put Ricey.
 

Using his time at Boro isn’t particularly fair for those which are. The squad was aging and needed a change. He was actually doing a decent fist of getting them straight back up but Gibson panicked. 
 

The non selection of Grealish has translated into not managing his ego when in reality he’s half fit and didn’t play for the final three months of the season 

Edited 13 July 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[Bert]

I don’t know how anyone can really want him out. Who do we replace him with? We’ve progressed under him no end that’s for sure. A World Cup semi final and euro final in three years. No other international team in Europe can boast that. These players will learn from this experience and they’re only going to improve. 

[foxes_rule1978]

9 minutes ago, Bert said:

I don’t know how anyone can really want him out. Who do we replace him with? We’ve progressed under him no end that’s for sure. A World Cup semi final and euro final in three years. No other international team in Europe can boast that. These players will learn from this experience and they’re only going to improve. 

It’s one of them, people don’t feel he can actually take us to the next level… some say that about Rodgers too 😂 , both have progressed though, so if you continue to do so he will get there. We were a shootout away from achieving what most thought was impossible… I don’t know many international teams at an average age of 25 or below that have won major titles.. it’s usually an average age of 27 or above.

[whoareyaaa]

I think his only real mistake was not playing Grelish or even Foden to win tournaments you need that one player who can turn the game on its head and both of those would fit that category and would have been ideal in the final.. Mount is good but he didn't really turn up.

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, whoareyaaa said:

I think his only real mistake was not playing Grelish or even Foden to win tournaments you need that one player who can turn the game on its head and both of those would fit that category and would have been ideal in the final.. Mount is good but he didn't really turn up.

Foden had his chance tbf and was shocking, was also injured too.

[Dan LCFC]

The next World Cup is too near and therefore he'll be in charge regardless. I'm torn, because I think he's obviously improved things where plenty before him have failed to do. I just can't escape this idea that it's as much down to the draws we've had that we've gotten that far rather than any kind of managerial genius, and you're kidding yourself if you think we haven't had them favourable.

 

I think he's here until at least Euro 2024 anyway.

[The Horse's Mouth]

He is like Rodgers a lot when you think about it, urges on the side of caution too much at times and both arguably victims of their own success but nobody really has that faith getting them over the line. I try not to overthink England like I do with Leicester personally and these past two tournaments have been a sensational ride as a fan. Bottomline you can't sack him on any grounds, he is the most successful manager we've had since Sir Alf and that's objectively. You could argue he's still learning on the job and I think as England fans thats something we need to get used to as well, because his successor isn't going to be a Mourinho a Guardiola it's probably more profitable to be wolves manager these days. This model has clearly worked and is here to stay, the next manager will be another southgate probably blooded through the youth ranks first as well.It does feel with England managers as well they never really get much appreciation until they've long gone from the job.

[filbertway]

Personally, go, but that's because I believe the group of players we have are better than playing like a glorified Burnley team. It throws up a huge internal dilemna in me, because I hate to see boring pragmatic football beat teams that take chances and get men forwards. Yet the team I have been supporting is playing that football

 

It's why I've been an absolute misery since Barnes injury. Rodgers and Southgate have been playing some truely difficult to digest football for the best part of 5 months.

 

If he stays, I hope he shows more faith in the massive abundance of quality at the top end of the pitch.

 

Bring on the new season

 

[Blue ROI]

1 hour ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

He is like Rodgers a lot when you think about it, urges on the side of caution too much at times and both arguably victims of their own success but nobody really has that faith getting them over the line. I try not to overthink England like I do with Leicester personally and these past two tournaments have been a sensational ride as a fan. Bottomline you can't sack him on any grounds, he is the most successful manager we've had since Sir Alf and that's objectively. You could argue he's still learning on the job and I think as England fans thats something we need to get used to as well, because his successor isn't going to be a Mourinho a Guardiola it's probably more profitable to be wolves manager these days. This model has clearly worked and is here to stay, the next manager will be another southgate probably blooded through the youth ranks first as well.It does feel with England managers as well they never really get much appreciation until they've long gone from the job.

B-Rod has his flaws but to me he is still superior to Southgate.

 

Its understandable to be defensive against say Man City given the gulf in resources. England were playing in a manner similar to Burnley under Sean Syche against much smaller nations.

 

There is little chance he would play Rice and Philips together with some of the attacking talent he has. He only plays Men-Didi when it's the last resort.

 

You could almost be inclined to think of someone like Rodgers as the man to take it further. Theres a squad there built for him like Leicester and looking for a bit more expansion like Claude's side.

 

England by and large will be fine at the World Cup Group stage. Its likely they will get a Honduras and New Zealand but I reckon there will be a much harder run of knockout games in Qatar.

 

 

[LestaFox92]

Don't like his style of play nor do I think he's a good manager tactical wise I think Mancini showed us that, however he's done more than enough to warrant another tournament and I'm happy with just competing in the later stages you cant expect more really.

[The Horse's Mouth]

4 minutes ago, Blue ROI said:

B-Rod has his flaws but to me he is still superior to Southgate.

 

Its understandable to be defensive against say Man City given the gulf in resources. England were playing in a manner similar to Burnley under Sean Syche against much smaller nations.

 

There is little chance he would play Rice and Philips together with some of the attacking talent he has. He only plays Men-Didi when it's the last resort.

 

You could almost be inclined to think of someone like Rodgers as the man to take it further. Theres a squad there built for him like Leicester and looking for a bit more expansion like Claude's side.

 

England by and large will be fine at the World Cup Group stage. Its likely they will get a Honduras and New Zealand but I reckon there will be a much harder run of knockout games in Qatar.

 

 

I wasnt saying they're on par management wise they just have the same issues,criticisms and dare I say frustrations.

[Leicesterpool]

Be interesting to see the one's who clicked go, who they can suggest replacing him with... in terms of Englishman there's no one really. In the top flight at present there's Dean Smith, Graham Potter, Steve Bruce and Sean Dyche. Not sure if any of them are good for international quality. Same goes for Eddie Howe, Frank Lampard and Chris Wilder.

[Frank Large's Black Book]

Seems to me that the reason most people have said "Stay" is because no-one can think of an alternative.

 

It's certainly a reason, but I'm not sure it's one that enthuses me.

[Leicesterpool]

One thing to take into account if you compare Martinez to Southgate, one could argue that Belgium may have somewhat similar same amount of talent while Martinez has never managed Belgium into a final, Southgate as with England.

[Blue ROI]

 

[The Horse's Mouth]

19 hours ago, Frank Large's Black Book said:

Seems to me that the reason most people have said "Stay" is because no-one can think of an alternative.

 

It's certainly a reason, but I'm not sure it's one that enthuses me.

It's more hes our most successful manager since sir alf

[Lako42]

Not sure why anyone would want a bloke who doesn't learn to stay in the job. 

 

The squad we have is incredible, it needs someone with a winners mentality to steer it. 

 

GS is not the man to get the best out of these players on a footballing level. 

[Hoopla10]

17 hours ago, Leicesterpool said:

One thing to take into account if you compare Martinez to Southgate, one could argue that Belgium may have somewhat similar same amount of talent while Martinez has never managed Belgium into a final, Southgate as with England.

Good job we met Italy in the final and not the semis then huh. It bugs me that people just look at the result and just ignore context. We'll never know if we could beat Belgium had we met them in this tournament but we know they beat us in the third place playoff in the WC. 

 

I don't have any faith in Southgate, I don't think he'll win anything with this very talented group of players. At the very top level I just haven't seen any kind of ability to manage a game from the sideline. We saw managers like Mancini and Hjulmand change the direction of games, using subs and tactical/formation changes. They're reactive and dynamic (in the way they change tactics). Southgate like clockwork put Henderson on. Mount did practically nothing since returning from his COVID isolation stint and plays every game. Kane (I'll try and keep this brief lol) was supposed to go on a run of goals... well that didn't happen and yet continued to play practically every minute of every game. In the same way I was fuming over Southgate ignoring Vardy in a must win game I'm sure Everton fans would feel the same about Calvin Lewin. How is it acceptable that Grealish doesn't get onto the pitch until the 99th minute? Sancho and Rashford in the 120th? 

 

So IMO it's about what we want. I think if we're okay to get a run at quarter and semi finals then we should stick with Southgate. He's safe and we have players if we go behind who can damage teams. If we actually want to win something then I think something needs to change.

 

One of the things is we need more English managers in the PL. The reason we struggle to think of a manager to take over is because the choice (if they're English) is few. The managers of Seria A teams are practically all Italian (including ALL the top sides). Potter, Dyche (*shudder*) and probably the best candidate of English managers in the PL: Dean Smith. About it, right? This has to change.    

Edited 14 July 2021 by Hoopla10

[gurru991]

Lets be honest. we had a relatively easy path to the final that we managed to make difficult (Denmark). We have some great talent to choose from but Southgate plays the most conservative & boring football imaginable. He was out managed by Italy  & I suspect would have had the same problem with France or Belgium.

Nice guy but under qualified !

[winteriscoming]

Go. Prob the easiest route to a final twice including the World Cup. Baffling decisions. Like the Croatia game Italy changed tactics second half and Southgate did nothing. Then decided second half of extra time to settle for penalties. Why Rashford or Sancho weren’t on earlier in extra time I’ll never know. Against 2 ageing cb. He basically wanted us to hang on to a 1 nil lead for over 90 mins. A more clued up manager like Mancini and we’d of won it. 

[CosbehFox]

Heard a comparison to Deschamps and it’s very, very true. 
 

Both pragmatists. Attacking ability is in their squads but they go for more stability. 
 

Even Santos from Portugal is a similar comparison 
 

Think the term easy runs isn’t fair because that’s what modern tournament football is. More teams with more games means more chance of shocks. Even more so in the lob sided 24 teams Euros -

 

Portugal’s run in 2016 was Iceland, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, Poland, Wales. They played really defensive in the final, got the goal and defended it out. England were one poor set piece from that 

[Col city fan]

What I do believe is that Southgate has gotten away with metaphorical murder after that Burnley esque performance in the final 

We woz garbage and clearly set up to not lose rather than win.

All the social media abuse has overshadowed just how poor we were against Italy. 
I still believe if we would have gone for them, we’d have won in the 90 mins. 
And the penalty shoot out was just nonsense.