Dennis Praet To Torino on loan

[Deeg67]

Not everything has to be 50-50 in terms of who's right and wrong.  Sometimes one side is more at fault than the other (just look at politics).

[fuchsntf]

15 hours ago, CrispinLA in Texas said:

Brendan should of factored in that it could effect Youri and Castagne's by not having their mate around in a foreign country to hang around. No wonder Castagne's been linked to Italy and think Youri will definitely be off in Jan or Summer next year.

 

14 hours ago, nnfox said:

This is a good point.  Look at what's happened to Cags after the way Under was treated.

Poor boys...!!! What about Real big clubs, !! best mates Coming n going all the while...!!!

Just Imagine if that was true...!!  Doesn't say much about character & mental strength of those that remain..

Not the Type of player, We should be interested in keeping..

Would prove Tielemans ,Castagna, Soyu are weak & fickle, for a Top 6 even 8 challenge...mama's boys.!!!

 

Now lets Build on it & start another nonsense FT campaign....

If you hadnt been noticing, what the hell do you think happens with all Teams across Mainland Europe...I

& Internationally...

[Claudio Fannieri]

Last season was a strange one as Praet started the season in great form but as soon as Perez and Madders came back he was out the starting XI. He continued to look in decent form right up until his injury and after that seemed to be completely out of favour despite a collective dip in form and results. 
 

for whatever reason Brendan doesn’t fancy him as a player, despite him being very neat and tidy as a player and a very good squad player, whether this was Brendan making a stance about recruitment and wanting more influence on transfers but he has certainly made his point with Dennis. 

[drumbeat]

9 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

In terms of translations, I did a zoom interview for TS ahead of the FA Cup Final with Castagne and he used a clunky turn of phrase at one point - nothing significant, it was non-footballing stuff, he was actually trying to make a joke - so after conversation with the club we edited it out so nobody could take it the wrong way.

I can beleive it, jokes are incredibly difficult to both make in and translate from a foreign language. I steer resolutely away from making jokes in French.

 

I've lived in France for 14 years now and whilst my French holds together, I am not nor will ever be fluent, I'll never have those native speaker intuitions. I've said clunky things myself and seen the reaction. In fact, sometimes I only know something's wrong from the reaction, I have to go back over what I said in my mind to look for the cause. And sometimes I know it's clunky as I've said it but didn't know any other way to say it. So I have a first hand experience of language barriers and am consequently both aware of and sympathetic to people speaking in a foreign language.

 

I like Castagne's attitude and POV, at least from what I can judge from video interviews. He seems down-to-earth and slightly dour. It gives a good contrast to the usual marketing type speak.

Edited 15 October 2021 by drumbeat

[coolhandfox]

Player not picked, not positive about the manager, what a shocker.......

Edited 15 October 2021 by coolhandfox

[volpeazzurro]

4 hours ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

Last season was a strange one as Praet started the season in great form but as soon as Perez and Madders came back he was out the starting XI. He continued to look in decent form right up until his injury and after that seemed to be completely out of favour despite a collective dip in form and results. 
 

for whatever reason Brendan doesn’t fancy him as a player, despite him being very neat and tidy as a player and a very good squad player, whether this was Brendan making a stance about recruitment and wanting more influence on transfers but he has certainly made his point with Dennis. 

Pure conjecture I know, but I'd thought similar too regarding your latter point. Certainly with our club, after a shakey start, our recruitment team have unearthed some great talent at reasonable cost, players that improve and also gain value most of the time.

 

In comparison, whilst there is obvious merit in a manager getting the sort of players he requires to fit into a particular system of play, historically, Rodgers doesn't seem to have in general, a very good eye for a player, Perez and Vestergaard being two more recent cases in point if we are to believe that they were bought on Rodgers say so. Similar also for Congerton who, if it hadn't been for Rodgers influence and perhaps insistence, I doubt would have been on the clubs radar because everything about his past record shouts 'avoid'! Add to that the question about whether we really want to recruit players to fit into an outmoded football philosophy that belongs in the past that Rodgers appears to subscribe to. 

 

Either way, the way things have gone since last Christmas, I think we should be very reluctant to shell out on any more players requested by Rodgers. If he's as good a coach as he and the media think he is, then he's had ample talent to work with albeit some might be a little bit raw or need to adapt their style of play to the Premiership. 

 

I think any number of managers would have been able to get a good tune out of Praet whereas I doubt many could get much more out of Perez and Vestergaard in a Premiership setting.

[drumbeat]

Praet meant whatever it was he said in whatever language he said it in (Flemish?) Actually, strike that, I'm assuming he was interviewed in his mother tongue, maybe he wasn't.

 

You can suggest alternatives, or better words, but the issue is one of translation. Whoever translated him chose 'sour', not Praet. It might well be a correct literal translation but equally not have the same sense in differing contexts. You have to be flexible. Even in the same language, people use words in a slightly different way (sometimes very different) and it pays to be sensitive to that.

 

Translation is a fiendishly difficult task, it's not as simple as swapping one word out for another, you have to have a real feel for what is being said, and an intimate knowledge of both source and destination languages. Sometimes things just aren't said in a language, or not in a certain way, and you have to find a way of expressing the same thought or emotion in a compatible way - sometimes that means using an entirely non literal translation. A simple example; in English someone might say 'it is raining cats and dogs'. A literal translation of that (to any language?) would probably confound. The French say something like (literally translated) 'it rains of the ropes'... and you could probably have a discussion of that translation!

 

Translation is not an exact science and you inevitably add, as the translator, your own flavour or scent. It can't be avoided.

 

And then there's constraints, time not least. That article probably needed translating and publishing within hours. Novels will spend months, if not years in translation. TV and film translators (for subtitles) have to consider screen space, audience reading speed, plot pace... sometimes it just takes longer to say something in another language, so a way to strike a balance has to be found. Audience itself is a factor; who are you translating for? A technical audience? Is it a missile guidance operators manual for the military? etc etc etc

 

Like most trades, the more you delv into it the more you see. It's never as easy as it might seem on the surface.

 

In short, Praet's 'sour' (I say that ironically as he probably didn't actually say sour!) could have been an ill judged and/or rushed translation. Or worse, google translate!

 

 

[foxinsocks]

He was poorly treated... with no explanation.   I would be sour.

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, drumbeat said:

Praet meant whatever it was he said in whatever language he said it in (Flemish?) Actually, strike that, I'm assuming he was interviewed in his mother tongue, maybe he wasn't.

 

You can suggest alternatives, or better words, but the issue is one of translation. Whoever translated him chose 'sour', not Praet. It might well be a correct literal translation but equally not have the same sense in differing contexts. You have to be flexible. Even in the same language, people use words in a slightly different way (sometimes very different) and it pays to be sensitive to that.

 

Translation is a fiendishly difficult task, it's not as simple as swapping one word out for another, you have to have a real feel for what is being said, and an intimate knowledge of both source and destination languages. Sometimes things just aren't said in a language, or not in a certain way, and you have to find a way of expressing the same thought or emotion in a compatible way - sometimes that means using an entirely non literal translation. A simple example; in English someone might say 'it is raining cats and dogs'. A literal translation of that (to any language?) would probably confound. The French say something like (literally translated) 'it rains of the ropes'... and you could probably have a discussion of that translation!

 

Translation is not an exact science and you inevitably add, as the translator, your own flavour or scent. It can't be avoided.

 

And then there's constraints, time not least. That article probably needed translating and publishing within hours. Novels will spend months, if not years in translation. TV and film translators (for subtitles) have to consider screen space, audience reading speed, plot pace... sometimes it just takes longer to say something in another language, so a way to strike a balance has to be found. Audience itself is a factor; who are you translating for? A technical audience? Is it a missile guidance operators manual for the military? etc etc etc

 

Like most trades, the more you delv into it the more you see. It's never as easy as it might seem on the surface.

 

In short, Praet's 'sour' (I say that ironically as he probably didn't actually say sour!) could have been an ill judged and/or rushed translation. Or worse, google translate!

 

 

My Wife was a French..Belgium-French German..English...( Occasional Spanish)  "Fremdspracherin" Foreign-language secretary. for firm's Marketting ,IT , Documents,Cross communication, HR, Paper-form or dictate ,  Occasional voice...direct ..

 

She often said, that  a 'turn of phrase, attempt at humour could Fall on very Stoney ground, also when taking individual countries individuals regions into

account....Sometimes when fully understood, it can undertake a total different context....in Business & street-wise.

Plus ( also in my experience) Intellectual well educated Bosses or Groups in the their own Language, can be quite "slow on the pick-up"

 

Germans & English are Top at both 'up-front' & Subtle sarcasm,  in Business- meetings & normal Everyday conversation..

Americans fail to Pick it up, But their..lets say Colonial Counter-parts\peers will often on any sarcasm,twist in a Phrase or sentence understand immediately.

Belgium-French/southern-french,Canadian-French  Sarcasm seems to go over their snobby-born n bred French peers.

Though the 'real-Parisian'  like a Berliner ( over Bavarian) ,can be subtle & quietly caustic and Bloody funny..

 

On any Sporting interview, even same language is an easy victim of taking sentences ,word out of context,

so Foreign Translations are *rife for awkward misuse,or  intentional-abuse...

 

[drumbeat]

48 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

He was poorly treated... with no explanation.   I would be sour.

Careful though. I can undestand that you might respond that way, bit did Praet himself actually say that of the way he was treated? There's a danger of over extending.

 

Equally, 'no explanation'. BR probably wouldn't agree with that assessment. No explanation sufficient for Praet perhaps but that's a slightly different thing. And I say that as someone who missed entirely what my cardiologist said to me at our last appointment, when it was obviously in my interest to understand (the follow up letter made me realise)

 

Now, I too believe Praet got a raw deal given his talents, but that's only what I think, and from my distant perspective. I have to accept that I have no idea of what actually went down .

[foxinsocks]

Just saying ....if he did say sour then I would understand. I expect he didnt.

Of course br would deny the ecplaination bit... managers are used to never being questioned.  If denis say he received no explanation then accept that may well be true.

[foxinsocks]

4 minutes ago, drumbeat said:

Careful though. I can undestand that you might respond that way, bit did Praet himself actually say that of the way he was treated? There's a danger of over extending.

 

Equally, 'no explanation'. BR probably wouldn't agree with that assessment. No explanation sufficient for Praet perhaps but that's a slightly different thing. And I say that as someone who missed entirely what my cardiologist said to me at our last appointment, when it was obviously in my interest to understand (the follow up letter made me realise)

 

Now, I too believe Praet got a raw deal given his talents, but that's only what I think, and from my distant perspective. I have to accept that I have no idea of what actually went down .

 

Just saying ....if he did say sour then I would understand. I expect he didnt.

 

Of course br would deny the ecplaination bit... managers are used to never being questioned. If denis say he received no explanation then accept that may well be true.

Edited 15 October 2021 by foxinsocks

[cropstonfox]

Translations  aside if  he was good enough

He would have forced himself into the team.He didn't due to the class of the players in possession of the shirts. 

That is football.

[sacreblueits442]

7 minutes ago, cropstonfox said:

Translations  aside if  he was good enough

He would have forced himself into the team.He didn't due to the class of the players in possession of the shirts. 

That is football.

....and rarely playing with two #8s.....but we are now....!!!

[SouthStandUpperTier]

Must've recovered from his hamstring issue. Named on the bench for Torino Vs Genoa. Kickoff at 5:30 showing on BT Sport if anyone is interested.

[Lambert09]

11 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Must've recovered from his hamstring issue. Named on the bench for Torino Vs Genoa. Kickoff at 5:30 showing on BT Sport if anyone is interested.

Tell me he’s not lost his place to Madisano? 

[An Sionnach]

40 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

Tell me he’s not lost his place to Madisano? 

He'll be back I am sure, I can't see anybody paying him what we do.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

57 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Must've recovered from his hamstring issue. Named on the bench for Torino Vs Genoa. Kickoff at 5:30 showing on BT Sport if anyone is interested.

 

45 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

Tell me he’s not lost his place to Madisano? 

Lost his place to Perezinho.

Torino manager has his favourites, clearly.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

1 minute ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

Lost his place to Perezinho.

Torino manager has his favourites, clearly.

Hopefully the Torino manager gave him a full explanation.

[sacreblueits442]

20 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

He'll be back I am sure, I can't see anybody paying him what we do.

....I feel money is not everything so far as he is concerned!!!

Very much think he will take a size-able drop to get out of here.

[Hales]

2 hours ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Must've recovered from his hamstring issue. Named on the bench for Torino Vs Genoa. Kickoff at 5:30 showing on BT Sport if anyone is interested.

I'm watching 😍😆

[davieG]

Assist

[SouthStandUpperTier]

Lovely run and assist by Praet. 3-1 Torino.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

Good game this. 3-2 now.

[Fox seen in Norwich]

Booked for diving yet he wasn’t diving