Are People Awful?

[Dunge]

Are people awful? I really think No.

 

That’s not to say people are all good either (or that all people are good), but I remain convinced that there are a lot of people out there who want to do the right thing by others, whether that be charity work, campaigning or simply offering a smile to a stranger.

 

Yet we’ve somehow reached a point in society where these things aren’t treated as benevolent. A smile from a stranger is seen as suspicious in a world where malevolent people find new ways to con us on a daily basis. People can become entitled and demand massively high standards of others. Kindness is treated as weakness. Sticking you head above the parapet can result in a stream of abuse in determination to “win”.

 

I do blame social media for a lot of this. I’ve felt for a while that a lot of people are unable to handle it. People with the same views as them are but a couple of mouse clocks away, meaning nobody has to temper their views or fit in with others anymore. People don’t have to try or adjust themselves to get a half-life online as compared to the effort it takes in person. Short statements with no context abound. People say bold things with impunity. People can gang up and attack anyone perceived as weak, fighting like rats in a sack to get the most laughy-face reactions, usually by saying the most extreme thing. Social media may have its benefits, particularly things like keeping in touch with loved ones over long distances. But it’s served to divide people as well because we been as yet unable to use it and treat it with the caution and respect it deserves. The internet lends itself toward anarchy, and I don’t think people as a whole can cope with that.

 

That doesn’t make them bad people though. It just makes them lost, lost in a system that purports to give them what they crave in the short term but offers little beyond that.

 

I’ve become more and more convinced in recent times that social media needs to be controlled, that anonymity needs to be removed and the big companies like Facebook and Twitter properly held to account. Some talk about nationalising railways, water companies, energy companies - I wonder whether what we actually need is the nationalising of social media platforms, to have proper accountability, algorithms removed or adjusted, to have representatives of the people deciding what should be done with it rather than Mark Zuckerberg, that private companies can still operate (Foxestalk is a comparatively good one, for example), but that they have to operate under licence. And that’s not to become a government mouthpiece, but to have it as an ordered service rather than a place that just seems to make people angry at each other.

 

It won’t solve all problems in society, and I don’t pretend for a moment that it will. But someone said earlier that they think things have gone downhill rapidly in recent times. I think the nature of social media is a big reason why.

 

 

*maybe this should have gone in Unpopular Opinions. 

[Parafox]

36 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Are people awful? I really think No.

 

That’s not to say people are all good either (or that all people are good), but I remain convinced that there are a lot of people out there who want to do the right thing by others, whether that be charity work, campaigning or simply offering a smile to a stranger.

 

Yet we’ve somehow reached a point in society where these things aren’t treated as benevolent. A smile from a stranger is seen as suspicious in a world where malevolent people find new ways to con us on a daily basis. People can become entitled and demand massively high standards of others. Kindness is treated as weakness. Sticking you head above the parapet can result in a stream of abuse in determination to “win”.

 

I do blame social media for a lot of this. I’ve felt for a while that a lot of people are unable to handle it. People with the same views as them are but a couple of mouse clocks away, meaning nobody has to temper their views or fit in with others anymore. People don’t have to try or adjust themselves to get a half-life online as compared to the effort it takes in person. Short statements with no context abound. People say bold things with impunity. People can gang up and attack anyone perceived as weak, fighting like rats in a sack to get the most laughy-face reactions, usually by saying the most extreme thing. Social media may have its benefits, particularly things like keeping in touch with loved ones over long distances. But it’s served to divide people as well because we been as yet unable to use it and treat it with the caution and respect it deserves. The internet lends itself toward anarchy, and I don’t think people as a whole can cope with that.

 

That doesn’t make them bad people though. It just makes them lost, lost in a system that purports to give them what they crave in the short term but offers little beyond that.

 

I’ve become more and more convinced in recent times that social media needs to be controlled, that anonymity needs to be removed and the big companies like Facebook and Twitter properly held to account. Some talk about nationalising railways, water companies, energy companies - I wonder whether what we actually need is the nationalising of social media platforms, to have proper accountability, algorithms removed or adjusted, to have representatives of the people deciding what should be done with it rather than Mark Zuckerberg, that private companies can still operate (Foxestalk is a comparatively good one, for example), but that they have to operate under licence. And that’s not to become a government mouthpiece, but to have it as an ordered service rather than a place that just seems to make people angry at each other.

 

It won’t solve all problems in society, and I don’t pretend for a moment that it will. But someone said earlier that they think things have gone downhill rapidly in recent times. I think the nature of social media is a big reason why.

 

 

*maybe this should have gone in Unpopular Opinions. 

That, mate, is the post of all posts on this subject. Excellent IMO 

[leicsmac]

Are people awful? Yeah, they can be.

 

Are they more so now than any other time in the past? No, we just get to hear about it more now. Let's not hanker for the days where people could be *really* awful,  like "no blacks, no dogs, no Irish", and it be socially acceptable, hmm?

 

Dunge has a point regarding social media and how people can't hack it, and to add to that I've always thought of it as a force multiplier of sorts - if you're nasty anyway, it's going to make you worse. The problem therefore is the humans, not the tech they’re using.

[deejdeej]

2 hours ago, Dunge said:

Are people awful? I really think No.

 

That’s not to say people are all good either (or that all people are good), but I remain convinced that there are a lot of people out there who want to do the right thing by others, whether that be charity work, campaigning or simply offering a smile to a stranger.

 

Yet we’ve somehow reached a point in society where these things aren’t treated as benevolent. A smile from a stranger is seen as suspicious in a world where malevolent people find new ways to con us on a daily basis. People can become entitled and demand massively high standards of others. Kindness is treated as weakness. Sticking you head above the parapet can result in a stream of abuse in determination to “win”.

 

I do blame social media for a lot of this. I’ve felt for a while that a lot of people are unable to handle it. People with the same views as them are but a couple of mouse clocks away, meaning nobody has to temper their views or fit in with others anymore. People don’t have to try or adjust themselves to get a half-life online as compared to the effort it takes in person. Short statements with no context abound. People say bold things with impunity. People can gang up and attack anyone perceived as weak, fighting like rats in a sack to get the most laughy-face reactions, usually by saying the most extreme thing. Social media may have its benefits, particularly things like keeping in touch with loved ones over long distances. But it’s served to divide people as well because we been as yet unable to use it and treat it with the caution and respect it deserves. The internet lends itself toward anarchy, and I don’t think people as a whole can cope with that.

 

That doesn’t make them bad people though. It just makes them lost, lost in a system that purports to give them what they crave in the short term but offers little beyond that.

 

I’ve become more and more convinced in recent times that social media needs to be controlled, that anonymity needs to be removed and the big companies like Facebook and Twitter properly held to account. Some talk about nationalising railways, water companies, energy companies - I wonder whether what we actually need is the nationalising of social media platforms, to have proper accountability, algorithms removed or adjusted, to have representatives of the people deciding what should be done with it rather than Mark Zuckerberg, that private companies can still operate (Foxestalk is a comparatively good one, for example), but that they have to operate under licence. And that’s not to become a government mouthpiece, but to have it as an ordered service rather than a place that just seems to make people angry at each other.

 

It won’t solve all problems in society, and I don’t pretend for a moment that it will. But someone said earlier that they think things have gone downhill rapidly in recent times. I think the nature of social media is a big reason why.

 

 

*maybe this should have gone in Unpopular Opinions. 

That's a fantastic post!

[nnfox]

In my experience most people are basically OK if you can actually talk to them.

 

I've just finished reading 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson and he raises a couple of points.

 

1.  A quote from Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn "The line between good and evil runs straight through the human heart" meaning everybody has the ability to be good and bad.

 

2. Humans are both social and anti-social.  This is a tribal thing and quite simply, you like the people in your tribe and get on with them, but when it comes to people outside of your tribe, there is a natural tendancy to distrust/dislike them.  In some cases you might go so far as to do or say something unpleasant to a stranger to gain status amongst your peers.

 

Part of the problem is that you no longer have to engage with people you don't know.  You see it everywhere, but as an example, I took my daughter to her gymnastics class and waited in the waiting room outside the gym.  There must have been 15 other parents in there and every single one of them was glued to their phone. In days gone by, some of those same parents would have started talking to each other and exchanging pleasantries and talking about the weather and how the children were getting on at school.  Not necessarily forming friendships, but exercising good social skills.  That's gone now, which is sad, and people are ruder now.

[Dahnsouff]

People blaming social media I fear are wide of the mark, it is the media at large. Social magnifies the problem due to its proliferation, but the media and therefore society at large (or is it the other way around) . However, the media outrages as it modus operandi, it sells, gets clicks, whatever. We are led far too willingly by the media, it’s advertisers.

 

Social media influencers of today, are the billboards of yesterday, the how to look, what to buy, the adverts for Amazon on your news site. How to get thin, how to get rich, etc. Even if these are not things you want, they are in your psyche, they are setting expectations or wants for society at large. Failure to achieve these norms will subtly reduce your self worth and create (initially) mild discontent.

 

So no, people are not bad, but they are fighting a battle to not be.

 

 

[Benguin]

Yes, we are all in Adam and dead in our sin. However we can take refuge in Adam number 2. The lord Jesus Christ. 

[ozleicester]

It has often been said that you get back what you put out.

Having said that..im not that big a cvnt.

[grobyfox1990]

Pretty much everyone within the m25 is selfish, arrogant, self-entitled and yes, awful.

 

outside of this self-absorbed cesspit I find most people are alright 

[Vlad the Fox]

9 hours ago, SystonFox said:

In all seriousness I am joking about doctors surgery here. But having worked in a hospital environment most of the doctors on site, as good as they are, the type with a stethoscope constantly around their neck act as if they wouldn’t piss on me if I was on fire. If I walked down an empty corridor at LRI and a doctor was walking toward me I may as well not be there. If a Porter or cleaner was walking towards me it’s all smiles and “ay up how r ya”. Doctors are generally rude and obnoxious.

 

sorry to have to get this off my chest but tell me I’m wrong. Tell me they would infact piss on me if I was on fire.

Slightly bizarre rant this

 

8 hours ago, FLAN said:

In the interest of balance… every receptionist at the surgery I use seems hellbent on being as difficult as possible when you have the audacity to request some form of medical assistance. 

Local gps have been useless over the last year and half. They’ve been doing their best to avoid patients and are running scared of Covid leaving others to face it. My dad ended up spending 5 days in hospital last summer because his doctor wouldn’t see him, kept trying to diagnose a problem over the phone or online. In the end I told him to go to the walk in centre. Another example was his neighbour was unwell, doctor wouldn’t see her but diagnosed over the phone that she had food poisoning. Two weeks later she’s still not well so goes to t(e hospital and it turns out she’d had a heart attack.
 

I’ve lost a lot of respect for doctors/gp over the last year or so. 

[Vlad the Fox]

1 hour ago, nnfox said:

In my experience most people are basically OK if you can actually talk to them.

 

I've just finished reading 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson and he raises a couple of points.

 

1.  A quote from Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn "The line between good and evil runs straight through the human heart" meaning everybody has the ability to be good and bad.

 

2. Humans are both social and anti-social.  This is a tribal thing and quite simply, you like the people in your tribe and get on with them, but when it comes to people outside of your tribe, there is a natural tendancy to distrust/dislike them.  In some cases you might go so far as to do or say something unpleasant to a stranger to gain status amongst your peers.

 

Part of the problem is that you no longer have to engage with people you don't know.  You see it everywhere, but as an example, I took my daughter to her gymnastics class and waited in the waiting room outside the gym.  There must have been 15 other parents in there and every single one of them was glued to their phone. In days gone by, some of those same parents would have started talking to each other and exchanging pleasantries and talking about the weather and how the children were getting on at school.  Not necessarily forming friendships, but exercising good social skills.  That's gone now, which is sad, and people are ruder now.

Fortunately it’s still quite social when I take my daughter football. Though winter might start to see more people drop off and come back where as I like to stay and watch. But I’ll go and say hello to someone and find that most people are quite happy to chat. 

[Kinowe Soorie]

Some. Lots are just unthoughtful.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Hadn't anticipated this level of interest folks, so thanks for your contributions.

 

I've been thinking a bit about the conversation that started all this off.  I actually struggle to believe that 50-60% of the people that go into that opticians have a bad attitude - it was pretty busy when I was there and the customer interactions were entirely cordial as far as I could see, although of course that's just a snapshot.

 

I think what struck me was that someone that young (she was working part time while studying) could have such a poor view of people generally. A bit of the 'things were better in my day' vibe is to be expected in the older generations (although again this is a MASSIVE generalisation) but it was sad to see someone young apparently being worn down by human interactions. It's not going to discourage people from retreating into the digital world, is it?

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Hadn't anticipated this level of interest folks, so thanks for your contributions.

 

I've been thinking a bit about the conversation that started all this off.  I actually struggle to believe that 50-60% of the people that go into that opticians have a bad attitude - it was pretty busy when I was there and the customer interactions were entirely cordial as far as I could see, although of course that's just a snapshot.

 

I think what struck me was that someone that young (she was working part time while studying) could have such a poor view of people generally. A bit of the 'things were better in my day' vibe is to be expected in the older generations (although again this is a MASSIVE generalisation) but it was sad to see someone young apparently being worn down by human interactions. It's not going to discourage people from retreating into the digital world, is it?

Its an interesting thread tbh  , so kudos to you for posting it 

 

As a slightly older fart, I find myself being generatrionally 'sniffy' (read irritatingly dismissive) about people's willingness to become insulted/offended at every opportunity, so could this be another factor behind people being (perceived at least) to be awful?

 

Or perhaps I am awful....ah feck

 

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Its an interesting thread tbh  , so kudos to you for posting it 

 

As a slightly older fart, I find myself being generatrionally 'sniffy' (read irritatingly dismissive) about people's willingness to become insulted/offended at every opportunity, so could this be another factor behind people being (perceived at least) to be awful?

 

Or perhaps I am awful....ah feck

 

Empathy can be bloody difficult at times. But it's also necessary and there's not enough of it.

[Guest Lako42]

The British....

 

 

Massive generalisation but i'm afraid it's very clear there is a shift in the British subconscious. 

 

 

Ruled by the nasty party, people love it, love it it to the point where they will vote the vile, corrupt bastards in again next time. 

 

 

Don't forget we've just enacted Brexit because we think we are better off alone as a nation simply because of some deep routed nationalistic / Xenophobic feelings people seem to have. But yay blue passports and nobody to pick food or drive a lorry. Less brown people taking working critical jobs though hey.

 

 

I almost enjoyed lockdown because I didn't have to mix with the general public

Edited 10 November 2021 by Lako42

[Guest Electric Yetis]

44 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

The British....

 

 

Massive generalisation but i'm afraid it's very clear there is a shift in the British subconscious. 

 

 

Ruled by the nasty party, people love it, love it it to the point where they will vote the vile, corrupt bastards in again next time. 

 

 

Don't forget we've just enacted Brexit because we think we are better off alone as a nation simply because of some deep routed nationalistic / Xenophobic feelings people seem to have. But yay blue passports and nobody to pick food or drive a lorry. Less brown people taking working critical jobs though hey.

 

 

I almost enjoyed lockdown because I didn't have to mix with the general public

Could not have put it better if I tried.

[FLAN]

30 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

All I can say in response to that is remember that they're not clinically trained and that they're only following guidelines set by the clinicians. It's the doctors and nurses who tell the receptionists what is, based on the symptoms patients describe, suitable for appointments with who, and within what time frame. 

I’m afraid the receptionists at our surgery seem to revel in making it hard to see someone. I don’t use them but my wife has an ongoing health issue that required appointments and they do all they can to stop it happening. I am not saying this is true everywhere but it is here. Everyone who uses them feels the same

 

[Shane]

3 hours ago, Benguin said:

Yes, we are all in Adam and dead in our sin. However we can take refuge in Adam number 2. The lord Jesus Christ. 

People are laughing at your comment, but I think the loss of values do play a major role in why people are awful. Values taken from religion & philosophy helps give people structure in their lives. I'm not religious but I am open minded and in the past I've explored the cultures of Christians, Buddhists, Hindus & Muslims mainly through volunteering & the people who truly believe in their faith say it's what makes them a kind person. Obviously religion isn't perfect & there are extremists, but the majority have a positive outlook on life because of their faith.

 

'Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, love thy neighbour etc etc are good rules to live by. You can go to a Sikh temple and ask for Langar and they will give you free food, regardless of your religion, race, gender or beliefs. Some will even give you temporary shelter. 

 

Seriously what are the values being taught today? You need a certain amount of social media followers & a certain amount of money or you're a failure? There seems to be a lack of values in everyday life now. I think it was Jordan Peterson who said the Western World needs more philosophy, not more laws because if you have a philosophy you are unlikely to break the law in the first place. 

 

I'm currently watching Peter Santenello's Youtube Series with the Amish & in a way I'm jealous of their simple life, their ignorance is bliss stress free living, but most of all I'm jealous of their community. The people in their community help each other, spend time together, have strong family connections & look after each other because of what they believe in.

 

 

Edited 10 November 2021 by Shane

[filbertway]

People are good  somtimes and people are bad sometimes. Sometimes good people do bad things and sometimes bad people do good things. I think a lot comes down to the emotional state of the person at the time.

 

One thing I think a lot of people do lack is empathy. The amount of times I've heard two people tell their side of a story and they are convinced the other person is in the wrong, when in reality they tend to be misunderstanding each other or not appreciating the other person's circumstances.

 

I'm a bit annoying to people in that I won't immediately take their side, I'll always be asking why they think the other person acted in the way they did (which apparently means I'm taking the other persons side). People do stupid things sometimes whether on purpose, without realising the consequences or by accident. It's not wise to judge people based on a particular moment.

 

Personally it seems natural to me to be nice and courteous to strangers, it makes the world a better place. Feel like a lot of people tend to carry around some bitterness or anger and instead of dealing with it healthily they'll just take it out on other people. One motto in retail that needs to die is "the customer is always right" I've never worked in retail but from what I gather, the customer is very rarely right

 

[filbertway]

13 hours ago, Izzy said:

Good post. 

I look at my teenage kids and their friends and compare their behavior to when I was their age. It fascinates me how these devices seem central to their lives and how they constantly interact with technology. My daughter often texts me from her room above my office rather than come down for a chat - I guess it's just more 'convenient' for her...

I'm convinced our dependency on technology is gradually changing peoples behaviours and mainly for the worse. I think we're losing the ability to listen, to be present, to be in the moment, to pay attention, to ask questions, to understand.

We're becoming more impatient, more judgmental, more frustrated, more distracted.

The 'art of conversation' seems to be disappearing and it concerns me. 

 

You see it a lot in pubs and bars as well, you've got people stuck to their phones, telling strangers what a great time they're having rather than just having the great time

 

I went in a few pubs in York a while back and they had a strict "No electronic devices rule - if you need to make a call then go outside" it was great.

[Spudulike]

12 minutes ago, filbertway said:

 

You see it a lot in pubs and bars as well, you've got people stuck to their phones, telling strangers what a great time they're having rather than just having the great time

 

I went in a few pubs in York a while back and they had a strict "No electronic devices rule - if you need to make a call then go outside" it was great.

The world is becoming like Twitter. Just people wanting to cause arguments and be confrontational. 

[HighPeakFox]

Lots of great posts in here, especially @Izzymentioning Maslow.

 

He's right, we have to try and be kinder, even if it is seen as weakness by the deeply disturbed, but at the same time we have to try and develop an inner Maslow, if you like - an awareness of what we might be acting out, and some responsibility for our own change. 

[leicsmac]

Again, I'm going to step in and say at this point that humans are, I think, no more awful than they have been at any time in the past. It's just much easier to hear about it now, sometimes from people who simply wouldn't have had a voice in the past.

 

I also think that is perfectly possible to have a value structure that is not part of any existing philosophical or religious doctrine and it guide you as a "good" person would.

[Buce]

1 hour ago, Shane said:

People are laughing at your comment, but I think the loss of values do play a major role in why people are awful. Values taken from religion & philosophy helps give people structure in their lives. I'm not religious but I am open minded and in the past I've explored the cultures of Christians, Buddhists, Hindus & Muslims mainly through volunteering & the people who truly believe in their faith say it's what makes them a kind person. Obviously religion isn't perfect & there are extremists, but the majority have a positive outlook on life because of their faith.

 

'Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, love thy neighbour etc etc are good rules to live by. You can go to a Sikh temple and ask for Langar and they will give you free food, regardless of your religion, race, gender or beliefs. Some will even give you temporary shelter. 

 

Seriously what are the values being taught today? You need a certain amount of social media followers & a certain amount of money or you're a failure? There seems to be a lack of values in everyday life now. I think it was Jordan Peterson who said the Western World needs more philosophy, not more laws because if you have a philosophy you are unlikely to break the law in the first place. 

 

I'm currently watching Peter Santenello's Youtube Series with the Amish & in a way I'm jealous of their simple life, their ignorance is bliss stress free living, but most of all I'm jealous of their community. The people in their community help each other, spend time together, have strong family connections & look after each other because of what they believe in.

 

 

 

I won't presume to speak for anybody else, but I laughed at the absurdity of his post.

 

Had he extolled the philosophy of Christian belief, which can be boiled down to be nice to people, don't be a cvnt, I wouldn't have laughed (may even have given him a 'like'); instead he trotted out the same meaningless pseudo-spiritual bollox that he does in every thread he contributes to.

 

Edited 10 November 2021 by Buce