Why the defensive problems?

[dylanlegend]

Evans is playing while injured. Villarreal injuring Fofana cost us big style. But at the end of the day we wasted 15mill on Vestergaard the management team should have signed someone better 

[enmac]

Fofana, JJ, Ricardo? 

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, splinterdream said:

Cags is crap, wilf jogs around the pitch, when cags is missing upfront, wilf not there to cover for him so castagne and Thomas get pulled in leaving masses of space on the left and right 

 

There's just no organisation, lazy players not covering.

 

I see us in possession and wilf could be running to give player with the ball options (acting as a pivot) and he's just walking around, player in possession has limited options and loses the ball.

 

We also don't get out quick enough to play the offside

....this is very much what we do!!!

Wilf being asked to do things he should not be doing, players in two minds about what is required of them. Is it any wonder that our performances are so disjointed. We have a manager with the ability to undermine his team, we cannot play for more than one good half, and whatever it is that he says to them at half time, it certainly cut them off at their knees.

[Nod.E]

1 hour ago, Whys it always me said:

And your post was drivel. Semantics or not he got the assist for the goal if he doesn’t play that pass we don’t score the goal and surely you understand that. 

I don't really have anything to contribute to the Thomas debate, positive or negative. In agreement or disagreement with you.

 

But to use a simple pass which ended up assisting a wonder strike to make a point is odd. 

 

Really winds me up when people use a fact that can't be argued with to support a loosely related point, attaching said fact to said point and apparently putting the argument to bed. 

 

Nuance. Yes he made the pass. No the goal wouldn't have happened without the pass. The debate as to whether or not he was influential in the final? Still there to be had.

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, adam1 said:

Nothing against the lad but he does ball watch though and has been caught out a few times. Villas disallowed goal is an example. Needs to be more aware of whats around him.

 

 

Thomas is the last player we should over analyse, or criticise..!!!

The Posters who do, are letting the others get Away with murder, & Lack of support from experienced players for an up & Coming player....

none of you knows how he will develope, especially in a confident team, Any Judgement is far Too early, But typical of FT- Posters Lack of reasoning...I

He s doing Damn well so far..!!

Edited 6 December 2021 by fuchsntf

[theessexfox]

Luke Thomas has done a lot worthy of praise and I’ve been generally impressed - a 5 yard sideways pass that happened to end up in a wonderstrike is not one of them 

[Claudio Fannieri]

7 hours ago, dmayne7 said:

Sad to say, but it's all down to the manager. Just look at what's happened to Wilf. You don't go from being the best in the league when it comes to positional play and intercepting, to suddenly being over all the shop. Manager's instructions clearly.

Completely agree, Wilf used to be so disciplined in being the player who sat in front of the back four and was impeccable in interceptions and ball recoveries, it also gave us defensive stability and much needed protection for the back 4 and hence our good defensive record. However this season it has looked as though he has been given instruction to be more box to box and that is meaning he is out of position and having to chase the game rather than being in position to make the tackles, interceptions and recoveries. 
 

we look overrun in midfield and look like we have little defensive structure and therefore teams are playing through us at will, without Wilf providing that shield and protection we are exposing our back 4 too quickly and too often and as a consequence we are conceding too many chances and goals. 
 

we have kept one clean sheet and being honest that day we were lucky as Wolves could and should have scored a few. 
 

for me one very quick way to shore us up and make us more difficult to play against would be to go 4-1-4-1 and get Wilf back in his natural holding role. As for corners go to man to man and leave Vardy/Daka and Barnes out high as an outlet. 

[adam1]

5 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

Thomas is the last player we should over analyse, or criticise..!!!

The Posters who do, are letting the others get Away with murder, & Lack of support from experienced players for an up & Coming player....

none of you knows how he will develope, especially in a confident team, Any Judgement is far Too early, But typical of FT- Posters Lack of reasoning...I

He s doing Damn well so far..!!

1 - facr - he has been caught out by ball watching. Not just the villa game. This season as well as last season.

2 - i suggested that he needs to be more aware - this is constructive criticism and an acknowledgment that he can improve.

 

So as for "lack of reasoning" or "judgment is far too early"  , no case to answer m'lud as quite clearly ive not fallen into either trap.

 

Lemon.

 

[Foxxed]

I doubt the problem is Kasper. We’ve been both great and poor with him.

[Angus Sze]

We miss Tielemans. He's done lots in defence.

[Sly]

We’ve got a few areas of weakness, that the current system we are trying to employ exposes weaknesses to. 
 

Brendan’s tactics work really well if we have the players to play it. The issue we have, is that once we lose one or two of the cogs, or they under perform, we nose dive dramatically. 
 

In attack, Vardy doesn’t have the energy / fitness to press from the front like he once did. He now presses in bouts, which gives the opposition time to play out easier. The wife players defensively are poor. Lookman and Barnes offer very little. Perez plays narrower but does improve us from the press point of view. Offensively Barnes is great. Lookman lacks the movement and game IQ. Neither Barnes or Lookman help with the press, so we allow the opposition to get out and it exposes the weak midfield and fullbacks. 
 

The midfield is lightweight. Maddison is great offensively though. Does press and actually plays better when he’s that bit further forward. Horrific set pieces 90% of the time. Too soft and no controlled aggression. It was nice to see him commit the cynical

foul yesterday. We’ve missed Tielemans in game ability, however he isn’t the player to take the game by the scruff of the neck and drag you through it. N’Didi is a brilliant interceptor, however his on ball ability is terrible. Needs a better ball player next to him, as it only comes straight back once he’s misplaced what should be a simple pass. We don’t press as a team and leave gaps all over the place, which exposes the full backs quite frequently and that area in front of the centre backs. 
 

The defence is all at sea, the fullbacks are better offensively. Thomas and Soyuncu have no awareness of danger around them and the positioning is often wrong. We are awful in the air and can’t deal with balls into the box. This exposes Kasper, as he’s not the most imposing goalkeeper, however let’s not kid ourselves, as his smaller statue helps with his reflexes. Half the defence and Kasper to a degree are also uncomfortable on the ball, so we invite pressure. 
 

Offensively we always look like we’ll score, so we need to address the balance and grind some results out. 

I’d be tempted to change it to try and fix things. How we should line up:

 

                   Kasper

    Vestergaard Evans Soyuncu

       
Ricardo                                     Castagne

 

              N’Didi     Choudhury

 

              Tielemans Maddison

 

                        Daka

 

It looks horrible in paper, however drop the defence to a deeper line and just let them head everything out. The extra bodies in midfield should help pick up the 2nd / 3rd phases. The full backs offer the width. Daka presses from the front. 

 

[Whys it always me]

7 hours ago, Nod.E said:

I don't really have anything to contribute to the Thomas debate, positive or negative. In agreement or disagreement with you.

 

But to use a simple pass which ended up assisting a wonder strike to make a point is odd. 

 

Really winds me up when people use a fact that can't be argued with to support a loosely related point, attaching said fact to said point and apparently putting the argument to bed. 

 

Nuance. Yes he made the pass. No the goal wouldn't have happened without the pass. The debate as to whether or not he was influential in the final? Still there to be had.

Go back and read the original post he has suggested Thomas was not influential. Every single player on the day were influential in us winning the cup. 
 

Thomas was very good in the final and regardless of if it was a 5 yard pass of not he got the assist which got us the winning goal which would not of happened if he played this to someone else. 

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, adam1 said:

1 - facr - he has been caught out by ball watching. Not just the villa game. This season as well as last season.

2 - i suggested that he needs to be more aware - this is constructive criticism and an acknowledgment that he can improve.

 

So as for "lack of reasoning" or "judgment is far too early"  , no case to answer m'lud as quite clearly ive not fallen into either trap.

 

Lemon.

 

Orange...

 

Für whole Blind have been caught ball watching...Include also Barnes ,Tielemans,Nididi,Soumare

then also Jogging ..back Leaving Thomas/Castagna both open...

In our performances, again Thomas is the last to be criticised.....

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

1 hour ago, Foxxed said:

I doubt the problem is Kasper. We’ve been both great and poor with him.

What does he do at set pieces nowadays?

 

His recent role seems to be, stay rooted on the line, concede a goal, and then either complain vigorously to the ref he's been impeded or fouled, or, shout at everyone else. He then kicks the ball up field in disgust. 

[CosbehFox]

Good to see where I think we have a problem touched upon. The defensive shape and application is a mess. First and foremost, the effort has to be higher from those on the pitch. The defence is often left exposed. The tracking of off the ball runners is non existent (that Watkins chance before their winner evident of that). The wingers regularly give zero support to the full backs. 
 

We don’t defend as a team or show the teamwork required. There’s been glimpses where we’ve done it; Brentford away, Leeds away for example where the players were putting in the extra yards but that’s it. 
 

Our demise against the lesser teams has been a story of being outworked rather than outplayed. 

[lcfc sheff]

It’s a combination of the spine, Kasper needs swapping for someone who commands their box. Look at Martinez for villa he’ll catch most corners. Evans gets injured every game and has done for 2 years and yet still plays through the pain barrier. Soyuncu is probably too aggressive and Ndidi is so lost in the middle. Besides evans I’d be looking to swap them all.

[Pliskin]

Are there any stat guru’s who can work out how many goals we’ve conceded with Jannik in defence compared to Evans or Cags? Would be interesting to see which partnership has conceded the least amount of goals. 

[lcfc sheff]

1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

Are there any stat guru’s who can work out how many goals we’ve conceded with Jannik in defence compared to Evans or Cags? Would be interesting to see which partnership has conceded the least amount of goals. 

Don’t need stats to see we just don’t look good with any partnership on the field 

[leicesterlad1989]

4 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Are there any stat guru’s who can work out how many goals we’ve conceded with Jannik in defence compared to Evans or Cags? Would be interesting to see which partnership has conceded the least amount of goals. 

Given Vestagaard has played less games than the other two, I would imagine any team with him in will have scored less?

[Pliskin]

3 minutes ago, leicesterlad1989 said:

Given Vestagaard has played less games than the other two, I would imagine any team with him in will have scored less?

Good point. Starting to wonder if it is worth just throwing him in again…. At the moment it can’t be any worse can it?

[lcfc sheff]

1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

Good point. Starting to wonder if it is worth just throwing him in again…. At the moment it can’t be any worse can it?

Problem is I think he was brought in to help in terms of attacking and defending set pieces but turns out he’s allergic to attacking the ball 

[Nod.E]

2 hours ago, Whys it always me said:

Go back and read the original post he has suggested Thomas was not influential. Every single player on the day were influential in us winning the cup. 
 

Thomas was very good in the final and regardless of if it was a 5 yard pass of not he got the assist which got us the winning goal which would not of happened if he played this to someone else. 

Oh my christ.

[splinterdream]

3 hours ago, Sly said:

We’ve got a few areas of weakness, that the current system we are trying to employ exposes weaknesses to. 
 

Brendan’s tactics work really well if we have the players to play it. The issue we have, is that once we lose one or two of the cogs, or they under perform, we nose dive dramatically. 
 

In attack, Vardy doesn’t have the energy / fitness to press from the front like he once did. He now presses in bouts, which gives the opposition time to play out easier. The wife players defensively are poor. Lookman and Barnes offer very little. Perez plays narrower but does improve us from the press point of view. Offensively Barnes is great. Lookman lacks the movement and game IQ. Neither Barnes or Lookman help with the press, so we allow the opposition to get out and it exposes the weak midfield and fullbacks. 
 

The midfield is lightweight. Maddison is great offensively though. Does press and actually plays better when he’s that bit further forward. Horrific set pieces 90% of the time. Too soft and no controlled aggression. It was nice to see him commit the cynical

foul yesterday. We’ve missed Tielemans in game ability, however he isn’t the player to take the game by the scruff of the neck and drag you through it. N’Didi is a brilliant interceptor, however his on ball ability is terrible. Needs a better ball player next to him, as it only comes straight back once he’s misplaced what should be a simple pass. We don’t press as a team and leave gaps all over the place, which exposes the full backs quite frequently and that area in front of the centre backs. 
 

The defence is all at sea, the fullbacks are better offensively. Thomas and Soyuncu have no awareness of danger around them and the positioning is often wrong. We are awful in the air and can’t deal with balls into the box. This exposes Kasper, as he’s not the most imposing goalkeeper, however let’s not kid ourselves, as his smaller statue helps with his reflexes. Half the defence and Kasper to a degree are also uncomfortable on the ball, so we invite pressure. 
 

Offensively we always look like we’ll score, so we need to address the balance and grind some results out. 

I’d be tempted to change it to try and fix things. How we should line up:

 

                   Kasper

    Vestergaard Evans Soyuncu

       
Ricardo                                     Castagne

 

              N’Didi     Choudhury

 

              Tielemans Maddison

 

                        Daka

 

It looks horrible in paper, however drop the defence to a deeper line and just let them head everything out. The extra bodies in midfield should help pick up the 2nd / 3rd phases. The full backs offer the width. Daka presses from the front. 

 

This would be far worse, castagne is not a wing back and when Ricardo doesn't get back I don't have faith in vestegaard to go one to one with someone like Sterling. We have to play with a back 4 and I'd drop cags for amartey, I think that would fix issues. I'd also give wilf a spell on the bench for choudary. 

[danny.]

11 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Oh my christ.

I’d just give up. He’s not going to get past the mental block 

[leicesterlad1989]

23 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Good point. Starting to wonder if it is worth just throwing him in again…. At the moment it can’t be any worse can it?

I don't think I've ever saw a defender so big and imposing, so crap in the air. So I'm not too sure.

 

This is where the manager earns his millions. The players suddenly haven't become shite. I think its a mixture of confidence and the way wet set up. It's his job now to sort this mess.