Reality check

[volpeazzurro]

16 minutes ago, dayday said:

We had the 2nd worst defence of conceding goals from set pieces last season

 

This season so far the worst, what’s that tell you?

Precisely and they weren't all injured all of the time last year were they. We're not the only one's to suffer injuries and some teams have less squad depth than us. The set peice issue is more about tactics and basics rather than personnel so there's no hiding place for Rodgers and his coaching staff there. It's been so obviously bad for so long now that if I was Top I'd want to know what I was getting for my money.

 

They have got to be incredibly inept for it to go on for so long. A few sackings might focus their efforts a bit more because some people are clearly in the comfort zone. No room for excuses on this particular issue. 

[volpeazzurro]

10 hours ago, PhillippaT said:

There's a reason why the teams with the best/biggest squads are either at the top of the table, or heading there after an indifferent start.  Only West Ham is in amongst them so far...  Although we've been able to do okay with a good first team so far, over the past few seasons, our lack of depth, along with most of the sides in the EPL, is being exposed, now.

Forgetting formations for a minute and just as an example, if as a rough guess of our first team without injuries was to be something like:

 

Schmeichel, Ricardo, Fofana, Evans, JJ, Tielemans, Ndidi, Maddison, Barnes, Vardy and Iheanacho?

 

Then the other better squad players or second string given as:

Ward, Castagne, Soyuncu, Thomas, Soumare, KDH, Albrighton and Daka?

 

With 3rd choice of:

Jakupovic, Armarty, Vestergaard, Bertrand, Perez, Lookman and any youth team players, are we really trying to say that outside of the top four recognised big boys, that we haven't got a good enough squad compared to all the other Premiership teams to enable us to compete properly with the odd injury, really??

 

I'd strongly suggest that if such players were employed in their right/comfortable positions, played to their strengths in an appropriate formation with due regard to the opposition, rather than slavishly seeking to follow some egotistical self-centred dream of a philosophy, including piss poor zonal marking, then we might well be doing a lot better than we are.

 

Do we really have to sell some of our better players to help finance the buying of experimental jigsaw peices to try and fit them into one man's irrational dreams?

[don_danbury]

14 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

A lot of our fans were touting us as a "top 6 club" six months ago

I still do and that's what we should be. Rodgers is underachieving imo. He didn't come here to finish mid table Every season. 

[bfox]

This squad is easily strong enough to squeeze into top 6. No worse than Arsenal's or spurs. 

[Ric Flair]

14 hours ago, glasgowfox said:

What do people really expect.  We are mid table on a mid table budget with possibly only 2 outfield players that would have started today had we had a fully fit squad.  We went 2 nil up at Anfield and the commentator had to say let's not forget liverpool are missing their best centre half.  Whilst I dont always agree with Rodgers formations and certainly not with zonal marking....there ain't any club in the land that would not miss 10 first team players...we cant have a strong first 11 and a strong second 11...we are Leicester city not Manchester city.

Thankfully our clubs owners and directors have a more ambitious attitude than fans like yourself. This is horrible to read, I'm hitting the drink.

[splinterdream]

14 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

A lot of our fans were touting us as a "top 6 club" six months ago

Lots of pundits and the press considered us a club capable of top 6. We use Bertrand wages and vestegaard money and buy tarkowski, and if soumare was the player we thought he was, and fofana wasn't assaulted pre season and we have an entirely different story this season imo

[Sol thewall Bamba]

12 minutes ago, don_danbury said:

I still do and that's what we should be. Rodgers is underachieving imo. He didn't come here to finish mid table Every season. 

Right now you refer to us as a top 6 club? 

[don_danbury]

Just now, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Right now you refer to us as a top 6 club? 

Obviously not with the injuries. But all these injuries only started to happen under him. 

[Nalis]

I'd say this squad and budget is top 6-8 but we've had much documented injuries woes in defence.

 

Unfortunately the current top 5 and Man Utd will probably finish in the top 6 but 7th-15th is up for grabs by anyone I think.

[Royston.]

Desperately unlucky with injuries, can't do anything about that, especially when they happen ingame.

Get the impression Rodgers just doesn't give a fcuk anymore, hence continuing with zonal marking when it has made us a laughing stock.

Making the same dumb subs.

 

Feels like we need an overhaul in January which is a treacherous window to recruit quality players.

[PhillippaT]

4 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Forgetting formations for a minute and just as an example, if as a rough guess of our first team without injuries was to be something like:

 

Schmeichel, Ricardo, Fofana, Evans, JJ, Tielemans, Ndidi, Maddison, Barnes, Vardy and Iheanacho?

 

Then the other better squad players or second string given as:

Ward, Castagne, Soyuncu, Thomas, Soumare, KDH, Albrighton and Daka?

 

With 3rd choice of:

Jakupovic, Armarty, Vestergaard, Bertrand, Perez, Lookman and any youth team players, are we really trying to say that outside of the top four recognised big boys, that we haven't got a good enough squad compared to all the other Premiership teams to enable us to compete properly with the odd injury, really??

 

I'd strongly suggest that if such players were employed in their right/comfortable positions, played to their strengths in an appropriate formation with due regard to the opposition, rather than slavishly seeking to follow some egotistical self-centred dream of a philosophy, including piss poor zonal marking, then we might well be doing a lot better than we are.

 

Do we really have to sell some of our better players to help finance the buying of experimental jigsaw peices to try and fit them into one man's irrational dreams?

Do you really not understand how badly our defence has been affected for this season?  Ricardo, Fofana, Evans, JJ and Soyuncu have all had problems, aswell as the entire squad taking a while to get up to speed from the start.  It's not the 'odd injury'.  THAT is the reason why we're struggling - that our 3rd tier defence of Amartey, Vestergaard and Bertrand at best, and Ndidi at worst, (that leaves our midfield open,  (since we don't have a like-for-like replacement for Ndidi there)), means the rest of the team struggles to cope with such a weakness.  If the injuries had been spread around more, it would have been easier to cope with, as I'm sure you're well aware.

 

It's therefore not about experimentation, it's about managing the players that are fit and able to play AT ALL, and for how long.  Within that context, yes, our SQUAD is not good enough, but has never really been so, anyway - EVER, for a situation like this one.  We won the league because our second team was never really needed, and our first was awesome! But we've made do with a really strong first team and okay second team for so long now, and it's a testament to the situation the club has been in, for both better and worse that we've managed as well as we have - until the pandemic hit.  This abnormal situation is why the richest and biggest clubs with the bigger, more useful squads now have a big advantage - (if they choose to use it).  

 

But this is why it's also really tight between a number of teams behind such bigger teams in the league atm., of which LCFC is merely one.  Obviously, if our defence can improve through players getting fit and staying that way, then we'd hope to do better, but that's not the situation we have atm., which is why the squad needs to be managed carefully until we're able to get enough fully fit players to use them all properly without too much fatigue.

 

The fact is, is that our B and C teams are nowhere near as good as you seem to think they are and should be as teams, which is what we're finding out this season, even if the odd player (Daka) is good enough for the A team.

[weller54]

20 minutes ago, Royston. said:

Desperately unlucky with injuries, can't do anything about that, especially when they happen ingame.

Get the impression Rodgers just doesn't give a fcuk anymore, hence continuing with zonal marking when it has made us a laughing stock.

Making the same dumb subs.

 

Feels like we need an overhaul in January which is a treacherous window to recruit quality players.

Ryan Bennett will return to save our season... don't fret.

[Farrington fox]

On the plus side Lookman, I thought he had his best game for us yesterday. Second half especially he look sharp and more confident and he's quick. There is a decent player in there I reckon.

Edited 27 December 2021 by Farrington fox

[Mark]

Just now, Farrington fox said:

On the plus side Lookman, I thought had his best game for us yesterday. Second half especially he look sharp and more confident and he's quick. There is a decent player in there I reckon.

Did seem much more comfortable on the left where he prefers to play.

[Ely fox]

15 hours ago, glasgowfox said:

What do people really expect.  We are mid table on a mid table budget with possibly only 2 outfield players that would have started today had we had a fully fit squad.  We went 2 nil up at Anfield and the commentator had to say let's not forget liverpool are missing their best centre half.  Whilst I dont always agree with Rodgers formations and certainly not with zonal marking....there ain't any club in the land that would not miss 10 first team players...we cant have a strong first 11 and a strong second 11...we are Leicester city not Manchester city.

The club have been very unlucky with injuries within a small squad anyway. The club probably would have predicted that Fofana would play centre back all season. Then alongside Evans and Soyuncu. Then Armatey and Justin can play centre back as back up if needed. So it is very unlucky those injuries to key players who can play centre back well. 

[ealingfox]

We were in League One 12 years ago. You're deluded if you think we've got any right to be within 2 goals of teams for more than 15 minutes of a game. 

[KFS]

We were in league one 12 years ago. You’re deluded if you expect us to defend a corner with the help of the best training ground in Europe and a highly paid manager.

[twister]

Everyone here hammered me why I said I wasnt look forward to this season

 

3o plus years of watching football has given me  some insight of whats to come

 

the big clubs hoarded every player under the sun this summer, and bought out the best mid prem ones avaliable, leicester bought either unproven players from euroupe or money grabbers from southampton looking for a pay day

 

Lets remember arsenal spent nearly 200 million this summer.

[Fox92]

15 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

A lot of our fans were touting us as a "top 6 club" six months ago

Exactly this. 

 

All this "reality check", I see every month now, is a load of shit.

 

Going gets tough and people change their goalposts.

[tickler28]

I started a thread at the beginning of the season re expectations and warned about players missing but most people still seemed convinced that top 6 was on....I then started a thread a few weeks back re our squad being not as good as people think (which was closed by admin). It wasn't an attempt to slate or belittle my beloved club it was just REALITY.

 

Many people on this forum have come to expect us challenging at the top end of the league and going deep into cup competitions. 

 

This season neither of those things is gonna happen im afraid because like Rodgers has said we have been hit by far to many injuries and don't have the squad depth.

 

You can moan about new signings and ask why so many players are injured but none of it changes the fact that we are where we are and sadly need to accept this season is a bit of a write off.

[Ric Flair]

People within reason through footballs tired clichés and how history often repeats itself would be right for us to stay in our lane and not strive or even demand that we continue to maximise our capabilities but that is a huge insult to what our owners and those associated with our club have achieved in the last decade.

 

This is a club that has built a model that backed up the statement that we'd play Champions League football within 5 years of winning the Championship. This is a club that has been the envy of every club outside the big 6 and plenty of the big 6. They've taken our scouts and coaches, they've taken our players for exorbitant prices that we signed on the cheap. We've used that to keep progressing with the foundations that we worked so hard to build and maintain. We built the best training ground in Europe and are extending our ground as a consequence to our astonishing success.

 

All of this was done with ambition and not settling for being a club who's got a mid table budget and mid table history. We don't care for what we ought to be, we care for what we can be and to take advantage of marginal gains on those who ought to be better than us. 

 

Don't do our club the disservice of believing we aren't better than what we are currently dishing up, we are at risk of regression and certainly of stagnation if we aren't careful and it's a long road back when that happens. Yes we should never forget where we've come from, nor acknowledge what's rational and irrational but don't ever give up this empire we have built as easily as some of you seem to be willing to with excuses and " perspective "

 

BLUE ARMY

[volpeazzurro]

2 hours ago, PhillippaT said:

Do you really not understand how badly our defence has been affected for this season?  Ricardo, Fofana, Evans, JJ and Soyuncu have all had problems, aswell as the entire squad taking a while to get up to speed from the start.  It's not the 'odd injury'.  THAT is the reason why we're struggling - that our 3rd tier defence of Amartey, Vestergaard and Bertrand at best, and Ndidi at worst, (that leaves our midfield open,  (since we don't have a like-for-like replacement for Ndidi there)), means the rest of the team struggles to cope with such a weakness.  If the injuries had been spread around more, it would have been easier to cope with, as I'm sure you're well aware.

 

It's therefore not about experimentation, it's about managing the players that are fit and able to play AT ALL, and for how long.  Within that context, yes, our SQUAD is not good enough, but has never really been so, anyway - EVER, for a situation like this one.  We won the league because our second team was never really needed, and our first was awesome! But we've made do with a really strong first team and okay second team for so long now, and it's a testament to the situation the club has been in, for both better and worse that we've managed as well as we have - until the pandemic hit.  This abnormal situation is why the richest and biggest clubs with the bigger, more useful squads now have a big advantage - (if they choose to use it).  

 

But this is why it's also really tight between a number of teams behind such bigger teams in the league atm., of which LCFC is merely one.  Obviously, if our defence can improve through players getting fit and staying that way, then we'd hope to do better, but that's not the situation we have atm., which is why the squad needs to be managed carefully until we're able to get enough fully fit players to use them all properly without too much fatigue.

 

The fact is, is that our B and C teams are nowhere near as good as you seem to think they are and should be as teams, which is what we're finding out this season, even if the odd player (Daka) is good enough for the A team.

Of course I understand the injuries. JJ has been out for almost a year so we can almost discount him to some extent but other teams have suffered long term injuries also. Fofana was clearly a big blow and Evans has been in and out.

 

However, you mention about managing who's fit which I think is the bone of contention. This has been going on for 12 months now. 

 

To persistently have played three at the back, when you're short of 1st team centre halves (one of whom, Soyuncu is clearly very uncomfortable on the extreme left) employ wing backs when you haven't got any, play two man midfields, only one of whom is capable of protecting a vulnerable defence, to continue to play a flawed zonal marking system over and over again when there's clear evidence it doesn't work, is to me gross mismanagement. 

[PhillippaT]

6 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Of course I understand the injuries. JJ has been out for almost a year so we can almost discount him to some extent but other teams have suffered long term injuries also. Fofana was clearly a big blow and Evans has been in and out.

 

However, you mention about managing who's fit which I think is the bone of contention. This has been going on for 12 months now. 

 

To persistently have played three at the back, when you're short of 1st team centre halves (one of whom, Soyuncu is clearly very uncomfortable on the extreme left) employ wing backs when you haven't got any, play two man midfields, only one of whom is capable of protecting a vulnerable defence, to continue to play a flawed zonal marking system over and over again when there's clear evidence it doesn't work, is to me gross mismanagement. 

I don't think your memory is anywhere near as good as you think it is - we haven't really used 3atb much this season, except in some cup matches, (including the last one vs Liverpool, which is probably affecting your perception of its use), and therefore don't use wingbacks as much as you think, either, though, yes, Thomas, especially, does like to get up the flank when playing with Barnes...

 

The problem with our midfield, is it needs both Ndidi AND Maddision to enable it to do everything it needs, which is why our general formation is usually a 4-2-3-1 - but if Madderz comes too deep, we then lack the link up play needed to get them in on goal properly.  Not that scoring goals has been as much of an issue as having them scored against us, which is the real problem - that's why we've got more draws, and a few losses to teams we'd hope to beat (Brighton/Villa/WH).  Complaining about the numbers in MF, however, is the wrong problem - it's that they've often had to be playing far too deep in order to help protect the defence, and the moment they get forward, we get hit on the counter.  Again, our MF gets too stretched due to the problems with our defence.  That's where nearly all our problems begin and end - everything else is a symptom.

 

The only point I'll partly agree with you on, is our defence of corners being a complete joke atm.

[Yes]

In terms of budget we might be mid table but this squad isn’t, Vardy, Maddison, Barnes, Tielemans, Ndidi, Fofana and Ricardo at their best could play for a top team quite easily, the likes of Thomas and Daka are clearly promising and too could find themselves at that level, others like Kelechi, Evans, Schmeichel, Castagne and Soyuncu have shown they can be better than mid table level, that team wasn’t overachieving by being 5th, compare that team to the title winners and the truth is on paper the majority of them would’ve been mid table talents at best, that’s overachieving. 

[An Sionnach]

We can look everywhere for the causes of our current problems but 50% of everything is the attitude of the players. We have seen their tendency to sulk when things get tough under our last three managers. We now have a player whose commitment does not waver no matter what , in KDH and the others should follow his example. I would put Amartey in that category as well. Talent gets you only so far , we need attitude.