Have we lost our momentum?

[Vacamion]

14 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Your lack of decent argument and  facetiousness against any one of those valid points highlights how defenceless they are. 

 

I just couldn't stoop low enough. 

 

If you want to list every bad thing and blame Rodgers, fine, that's your choice.

 

I just thought it was wrong to ignore the good stuff, so I thought I'd rip the piss.

 

 

[fuchsntf]

19 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

Ridiculous post. No one is blaming Rodgers for everything that has gone wrong. What no-one can dispute is that his teams are poor defensively, brittle psychologically, which makes them prone to heavy and confidence sapping defeats. It’s taken an age to fix set piece defending with BR using absent injured players who aren’t due to return for months as an excuse. What I really want to know is does Brendan deep down feel there is more to achieve. Or does he feel - as he has already said - that weve overachieved already and that we should just be grateful to have him..

utter crap..!

[Aus Fox]

44 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Thrown in amongst that:

The biggest away win in Premier League History.

Our 3rd best finish in the history of our club (twice).

Our first ever FA Cup.

The only team to score 5 away at a side managed by Pep.

Back to back qualification for Europe - first time in our history.

The first team to beat all of the big six in a single season.

Scoring 4 or more goals on at least 10 occasions in the league.

Fa Cup 1/4 outplaying an in form Man Utd.

 

[StanSP]

1 hour ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

the players don’t look like they believe in Rodgers’ football anymore

I don't agree with this. What are the players doing to not look like they believe in it? 

 

We're doing poorly in the league but we'd be doing far far worse if they didn't believe in it. 

[Unabomber]

Just now, StanSP said:

I don't agree with this. What are the players doing to not look like they believe in it? 

 

We're doing poorly in the league but we'd be doing far far worse if they didn't believe in it. 

I think he just didn’t like Rodgers 

[Strokes]

Last night was a bitter pill to swallow, the nature of the collapse felt worryingly familiar. There are some concerning signs but also a few bright lights.

I hope we can use this as a catalyst, like we did with Watford.

[The Year Of The Fox]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

I don't agree with this. What are the players doing to not look like they believe in it? 

 

We're doing poorly in the league but we'd be doing far far worse if they didn't believe in it. 

Players arent being rewarded for good displays for a start. Blunt and Hamza are two good examples 

 

Vestegaard being the main example of playing shite but selected regularly 

 

They can’t have belief in the manager when that’s happening surely? 
 

We’ve lacked direction for months on end as well. Aimless sideways, clueless passing. That’s only really improved since KDH coming in. A player Rodgers has seemed to reward with his good displays funnily enough 😂

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

 

 

 

Liverpool (h) aside, the players don’t look like they believe in Rodgers’ football anymore. Everything around the club is stale as fcuk, players have no interest, the fans are divided and we’re absolutely shite on the pitch. 
 

Rodgers now has us playing worse than the side he inherited, albeit with a better, more talented squad. How is that possible?

 

 

Completely disagree with that part of your post. We are at a crossroads with the squad but this is the nature of football and it’s happened here before. 
 

The players most certainly believe in it I feel. I think that criticism was valid a couple of months ago. If the players hearts weren’t in it, you don’t have two shots off the line from last ditch defending last night. You don’t have a go at Man City and get back to 4-3. Players such as Vardy asking to play on 28th rather than be rested. 
 

We aren’t shit. That’s just an over exaggeration. Inconsistent, average. Great going forward. Woeful at the back. 
 

We are in no way playing worse than we did under Puel. 

Edited 20 January 2022 by Cardiff_Fox

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

The other possible explanation is that Rodgers has told Top he’s happy with the current squad and doesn’t need anyone else. 
 

Given that 3 years on he still rates Perez it’s very very possible he still also rates Vestergaard 

 

And that would be incredibly worrying 
 

 

Consider that the liquid cash isn’t there to do a deal? Every year club has to take out a significant bank loan to cash on with the TV deal and/or a summer transfer. This is the first season that we haven’t sold a player in the summer to fund the incomings. 
 

Perez barely played this season, didn’t even bring him on last night. 
 

Said elsewhere, you can wish all you want but the club wont sack him until its disaster stage. Possible at the end of the season because they will be a bit of money to pay for his compo. 

Edited 20 January 2022 by Cardiff_Fox

[sacreblueits442]

34 minutes ago, Rigga said:

Something is amiss somewhere..

to not sign a CB in Jan, regardless of cost..would be barmy..

 

they say prices get inflated… Villa got a good deal with Digne…

...we are not about to spend money on a permanent deal for a player, whose position of which we have no need.

 £27m in January is not something we are going to spend in this window. I  cannot agree it was in anyway a good deal for a 28 year old player, at the full market price.

[CosbehFox]

59 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

On top of this horror show you’d need to add Bournemouth a 4-1, Newcastle sticking 4 past us, and the slow starts including being 4 down to Man City after 20mins ..conceding 2-0 leads to Palace and Napoli - it speaks of a side with a feeble defence and poor game psychology…

Also first time we’ve ever beat all of the big six in a single season. Like ever ever. 

[coolhandfox]

Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward.

 

The year before we won the Championship, we were in the top 2 and fell away before scrapping into the PO to only get beaten by Watford.

 

Next year we pissed the league.

 

Progress is not linear and sometimes you have to suffer to get stronger.

 

 

[Sunbury Fox]

1 hour ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

The other possible explanation is that Rodgers has told Top he’s happy with the current squad and doesn’t need anyone else. 
 

Given that 3 years on he still rates Perez it’s very very possible he still also rates Vestergaard 

 

And that would be incredibly worrying 
 

 

Does he rate Perez, though? Despite the mass injuries we've suffered Perez has hardly started a game this season. It's clear he's way down the pecking order. 

 

As for bringing in more defenders in this transfer window, does it make sense to tie up yet more funds on another panic buy CB when we have 5 CBs on the books already? I assume Rodgers has decided to wait a few more weeks for Fofana to return and in the meantime use Amartey to cover. That seems sensible to me. Rushing out to get a CB in the tricky January market could well end up in another Vestegaard style mistake. 

[The Year Of The Fox]

23 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Consider that the liquid cash isn’t there to do a deal? Every year club has to take out a significant bank loan to cash on with the TV deal and/or a summer transfer. This is the first season that we haven’t sold a player in the summer to fund the incomings. 
 

Perez barely played this season, didn’t even bring him on last night. 
 

Said elsewhere, you can wish all you want but the club wont sack him until its disaster stage. Possible at the end of the season because they will be a bit of money to pay for his compo. 

True. 
 

Perez- ok, this season he’s fallen out of favour slightly. But it still took Rodgers a heck of a lot longer than the majority of the crowd to realise he’s not good enough for where we need to be.
 

 

Reference your post previous to this, I think it’s more than just the squad at a crossroads.

 

Doing the right thing now could harm or secure LCFCs credentials as a Top 8 or potential Top 6 club for the next 5 years or so. 
 

If we manage to keep the vital players we need to mount a challenge, that will entice better players to come here too. I always think it’s like a snowball how clubs like ours have to grow. 
 

The key is keeping the current players we have happy. A lot of that has to do with management. Do we get rid of Rodgers? Do we put our faith in him? Does he leave of his own accord in the summer in any case? 
 

Each year, bar last we’ve offloaded a player for a high fee as you say. The majority (might be half) of the years since the PL win we’ve had that fee, plus European Football money to help us bolster our signings. 
 

This summer we could well have to sell two players to fund the recruitment with no European Football cash coming in. And I’m not sure I trust Rodgers with £100m+ and an already depleted squad (from selling the two players I use in this example) to improve on this season.

 

 

 

Anyhow, I only commented on this thread as I think it’s ridiculous for those who bring up Rodgers’ shortcomings are called ‘melts’ 

 

The bloke isn’t untouchable 

 

 

 

Edited 20 January 2022 by The Year Of The Fox

[Anglodanglo]

58 minutes ago, Rigga said:

Something is amiss somewhere..

to not sign a CB in Jannick, regardless of cost..would be barmy..

 

[CosbehFox]

25 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Players arent being rewarded for good displays for a start. Blunt and Hamza are two good examples 

 

Vestegaard being the main example of playing shite but selected regularly 

 

They can’t have belief in the manager when that’s happening surely? 
 

We’ve lacked direction for months on end as well. Aimless sideways, clueless passing. That’s only really improved since KDH coming in. A player Rodgers has seemed to reward with his good displays funnily enough 😂

Hamza played last night after a good performance against Watford. He’s not put in a performance of that nature in a long time, he was rewarded duly so. 
 

Brunt has played one senior game, that’s hell of a risk. To throw in against Kane. Now given the lad’s looked very average in Under 23s, I don’t think it’s truly worth a start. 

 

‘Aimless sideways, clueless passing’ which makes us the third highest scorers in the Premier League. We’ve scored since the November international break; 0,3,4,2,1,2,4,3,3,1,4,2. 29 goals over 12 games - nearly 2 and half goals a game. Seems that clueless passing works a treat. 

[The Year Of The Fox]

12 minutes ago, Sunbury Fox said:

Does he rate Perez, though? Despite the mass injuries we've suffered Perez has hardly started a game this season. It's clear he's way down the pecking order. 

 

As for bringing in more defenders in this transfer window, does it make sense to tie up yet more funds on another panic buy CB when we have 5 CBs on the books already? I assume Rodgers has decided to wait a few more weeks for Fofana to return and in the meantime use Amartey to cover. That seems sensible to me. Rushing out to get a CB in the tricky January market could well end up in another Vestegaard style mistake. 

As I’ve just said to @Cardiff_Foxits still taken Rodgers a hell of a lot longer than the vast majority of fans to realise Perez isn’t up to scratch. 
 

If he perseveres with Vestergaard as long as he did Perez then we really are screwed. 

[The Year Of The Fox]

5 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Hamza played last night after a good performance against Watford. He’s not put in a performance of that nature in a long time, he was rewarded duly so. 
 

Brunt has played one senior game, that’s hell of a risk. To throw in against Kane. Now given the lad’s looked very average in Under 23s, I don’t think it’s truly worth a start. 

 

‘Aimless sideways, clueless passing’ which makes us the third highest scorers in the Premier League. We’ve scored since the November international break; 0,3,4,2,1,2,4,3,3,1,4,2. 29 goals over 12 games - nearly 2 and half goals a game. Seems that clueless passing works a treat. 

Hamza was dropped from the position he earned his MOTM award in.
 

 

How many of those 29 goals in 12 games has KDH featured? 
 

I stated that that ‘clueless, sideways passing’ improved on his introduction to the team. 

Edited 20 January 2022 by The Year Of The Fox

[CosbehFox]

27 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

True. 
 

Perez- ok, this season he’s fallen out of favour slightly. But it still took Rodgers a heck of a lot longer than the majority of the crowd to realise he’s not good enough for where we need to be.
 

 

Reference your post previous to this, I think it’s more than just the squad at a crossroads.

 

Doing the right thing now could harm or secure LCFCs credentials as a Top 8 or potential Top 6 club for the next 5 years or so. 
 

If we manage to keep the vital players we need to mount a challenge, that will entice better players to come here too. I always think it’s like a snowball how clubs like ours have to grow. 
 

The key is keeping the current players we have happy. A lot of that has to do with management. Do we get rid of Rodgers? Do we put our faith in him? Does he leave of his own accord in the summer in any case? 
 

Each year, bar last we’ve offloaded a player for a high fee as you say. The majority (might be half) of the years since the PL win we’ve had that fee, plus European Football money to help us bolster our signings. 
 

This summer we could well have to sell two players to fund the recruitment with no European Football cash coming in. And I’m not sure I trust Rodgers with £100m+ and an already depleted squad (from selling the two players I use in this example) to improve on this season.

 

 

 

Anyhow, I only commented on this thread as I think it’s ridiculous for those who bring up Rodgers’ shortcomings are called ‘melts’ 

 

The bloke isn’t untouchable 

 

 

 

He isn’t untouchable from criticism. There’s very little argument against the poor defending, the ability to meltdown and our European runs in the last two season. He’s not perfect but neither a lot of managers. Said elsewhere I think this season reminds me of O’Neills - good spells of form, poor spells of form, the occasional scalp in the league, good cup runs but still had the ability to meltdown late in matches.

 

I just want to see a balance debate about the bloke. Fed up of constant ‘we are shit’ 
 

Personally the way I see it is that any season LCFC can achieve better than six clubs who are significantly bigger at all levels is a huge success. That we have the conversation of getting into that top six is a) testament to Rodgers’ work over the last two seasons where at times we’ve played incredible football and topped the league (again a feat that’s only happened I believe under five managers in our entire history) and b) the clubs’ strategy when it comes to regularly rebuilding a squad to improve bit by bit. 
 

There’s no real indicator that players are unhappy with Rodgers. Only Praet has left under a cloud here. The players what have left do it to a bigger club on the ‘food chain’. Club will always be working on how the next bloke would be but equally they will want to protect their reputation and not be deemed to sack managers undeservedly. Like or not, Leicester in 10th sounds right to a lot of the footballing world. 
 

I’ve waffled on before about the three year cycle that a lot believe to be the shelf life of a manager to a squad. At the end of three years, a squad starts to tire of what a manager says. It’s a natural cycle - something what occurs to a lot of people in their day to day life. Every three years need a change. As a club, you change the manager or you overhaul the squad. I don’t doubt it’s a big decision and that’s what my original point was. 
 

Without European football, we’ve normally kept to one departure but the club is spending a lot on infrastructure at the moment. The type of stuff which truly does give you a chance with those big clubs. So might be right there but they aren’t many at the mo who I’d be sad if they left. 
 

I am waffling big time now. I think Corky made a great post earlier when he said our season will now be judged how we did do compared to West Ham, Wolves and Brighton in this second half of the season. All three are well backed, bit better than the rest squad wise. Ultimately though we finish 8th or 12th it’s much as a muchness. Those cups will also decide as well where people sit with Rodgers too. 

Edited 20 January 2022 by Cardiff_Fox

[CosbehFox]

13 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Hamza was dropped from the position he earned his MOTM award in.
 

 

How many of those 29 goals in 12 games has KDH featured? 
 

I stated that that ‘clueless, sideways passing’ improved on his introduction to the team. 

Hamza played CB last night. He played CB against Watford. 
 

Played in the majority as Youri got injured and he needed to play. But don’t say KDH was pushing for a place in the starting eleven because he wasn’t. He was woeful away in Poland and very average against Brighton in the cup

Edited 20 January 2022 by Cardiff_Fox

[The Year Of The Fox]

1 minute ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Hamza played CB last night. He played CB against Watford

Could’ve sworn he was CM 😂😂😩🍺

 

My point is invalid there then

[Raw Dykes]

I think it's pretty difficult to really gauge where we are at the moment. I think there are concerns and reasons to be optimistic.

 

The league this season is pretty much a write-off, but then we've had so many important players out for so long that you can't expect us to be near our best. There's a lot of debate as to why we have so many injuries, and I believe Brendan has to take at least some of the blame. Seems too much of a coincidence that we've had such a terrible injury record since he's been here. On the other hand, a lot of the more serious ones are just down to bad luck or our players being assaulted on the pitch. We've had to do without our 1st choice back 4 for far too long. JJ due to an ACL. Some might argue he was overplayed, but was he? An ACL can happen to any player at any time, can't it? Evans is just getting on and becoming more injury-prone. I don't think there's an awful lot a manager can do about that. Ricardo and Fofana were both hacked down on the pitch. Whatever's changed in training since Pearson and Claudio barely ever having players injured to now, with Brendan trying to cobble enough players together to put a team out needs looking at, but I believe luck has also been a big factor. Maybe we've got too many injury-prone players in the squad now. I don't know. Needs sorting out, anyway.

 

I was getting pretty sick and tired of the results and performances earlier in the season, and around the time that Man Utd sacked Ole, I was thinking it might be for the best if they took BR off our hands and saved us paying him off. I think we've improved since then, though. I'm encouraged that he's got Maddison firing again, and that we've finally changed our approach to defending set pieces. That in particular was very frustrating when it was so obvious to see what we were doing wasn't working. Glad to see the manager is attempting to fix it. Much better late than never.

 

I don't agree with people saying the players aren't playing for the manager. There's just no evidence of that. We still look a threat on the attack. We're still scoring goals. We can't defend, but then it's no real surprise when all our defenders are injured or on the other side of the world.

 

My only other real concern is recruitment. I believe that's been our ace up the sleeve for a long time. Last summer's new additions are a mixed bag, though - ranging from fantastic - Daka - (never thought we'd be able to land a player like him. The closest thing to a Vardy replacement you could possibly hope to find. Thought we'd probably struggle to replace the GOAT for the rest of my lifetime, but it looks a lot like we might have managed it before JV's even hung his boots up) - through jury's out - Soumare - (underwhelming so far, but he is young and adapting to a new country and league. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt) - to Vestergaard and Bertrand. (The less said, the better, really. Vestergaard was a desperate signing that we forced into by the Fofana injury, but it is concerning that we were linked before. Bertrand was free, thankfully, but he doesn't look up to it. I think Covid may have badly affected him, but he's been awful so far any way you slice it). I think Lookman has been good overall. Probably the first decent winger we've signed since Mahrez or Kevin! Hope we sign him permanently. Point being, I would have expected us to find better than Bertrand and Vestergaard. Daka goes a long way to balacing them out, however. Hopefully, those 2 bad signings are just missteps and not a sign of what's to come.

 

Plenty to be optimistic about, though. It's still a squad full of young, exciting players, with an academy promising many more in the future. I'm looking forward to seeing how many make the first team in the next few years. I think we've done really well to have 4 home-grown players in the senior squad, especially after having sold one for £50m. Doesn't seem long ago that we'd do well to produce one Championship-level player every few years at best, and now we've got top-half PL players coming out our arse, with it looking likely to improve in the future. And on top of that, we're properly shaking up the academy and look to be going about it the right way. I think the academy and the players it's producing alone is a reason to be cheerful. It will stand us in great stead for years to come, along with the new state-of-the-art training ground and planned stadium expansion. Also, once these are bought and paid for, we'll free up more funds to invest more heavily in the playing squad, on top of the added income generated from the extra seats, the arena, hotel, etc.. I think it is quite easy to forget that we are investing so heavily in infrastructure currently. It has to be hampering us in terms of transfer budgets for the time being, but we'll be a much more attractive club when it's done, and we'll also have plenty more to spend elsewhere. That is certainly something to look forward to.

 

On the whole, I'm optimistic. I think Brendan is still the man for the job. I think there is more that could be done on the injury front; whether that's altering training or replacing injury-prone players, but the bad luck mixed in with what's within the club's control has to run out at some point. We are heading for a bit of a shake up in the squad with a few players' contracts running down, but I don't think major surgery is needed. If we make the right moves in the transfer market as we have usually done over the past few years, I think we will be a few places higher up the table again.

 

I apologise for waffling on so long.

 

TL;DR:

Lost momentum? Hard to tell. Too many injuries. Inconsistent this season, but Maddison on form now and finally dropped zonal marking. Still scoring goals and looking a threat. Can't defend, but have no defenders. To be expected. Recruitment in summer not the best, Daka and Lookman aside. Trend or anomaly? Academy producing lots of good players, with more to come. Infrastructure a great investment for the future. Mainly optimistic. The end.

[Gazza M]

Brendan continously stalls our momentum by panicking when we have a lead and going ultra defensive. He nearly lost us the cup final by bringing Morgan on with 10 mins left. If it wasn't for Chilwells marginal offside we would have lost that day too in my opinion. 

How many more times can this guy claim defeat from the jaws of victory.....

[NewquayFox]

If I’m honest I don’t think we’ve had any momentum this season, what with Covid, injuries, out of form players & poor summer signings (Lookman & Daka apart) plus Rodgers refusal to change our defensive system it was inevitable after last season’s euphoria… 

[Mike Oxlong]

Our last 10 league games 

 

LDLWDLWLWL