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Sampson

Ukraine

By Sampson, in General Chat

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

There seems to be 

And Russia are turning to China to use their credit system. Seems an awful lot of coincidental events going off over the last few years. Us leaving the EU, mysterious virus,  Trump removed from office, Russian invasion, China bailing out the russian economy, whatever next.

Coronavirus isn't "mysterious" - but then that's one for another thread.  

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Countryfox

Countryfox

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@Mark @davieG ..  Hello both. Just wondered if you could sort of leave threads relating to the war in Ukraine alone ..  where I am there’s been a power cut and the tv hasn’t worked for 3 days and no papers can be printed. FT has been a valuable source of information for me whilst also looking at how the best football team in the world ever are doing. It’s easy to work out who gives accurate information ..  and who talks horse sh1t.  Perhaps if you feel some of the posts are going south then just scrub them off and posters will hopefully behave after the warning or get banned. 
 

Finally it would be nice if you could put the removed Ukraine thread back (but locked) so we have a record of events for posterity ..  and can also see WHY it was locked ..  (as you did with the War thread)    
 

Of course, if you can’t I fully understand. 

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LiberalFox

LiberalFox

Posted
Posted

I wrote about my take on the Russian perspective based on the limited contact I've had with Russians who I know from before the war but it got deleted so I'll bullet point:

 

a) I know at least two who have taken part in anti-war demos, I don't know if anything has happened to them.

 

b) I've only had one take a "pro-Russia" stance and I didn't have the mental energy to get involved in a debate (this was on day 2 iirc and I didn't want to react emotionally to someone). They literally didn't know / were struggling to comprehend that the whole country had been invaded. I got the impression that Russians are so starved of reliable information that anyone arguing for an objective truth is automatically distrusted. 

 

c) It's difficult for Russians, they know that their own news sources are unreliable but they are confronted with western outrage and media unanimity and draw parallels with their own media. They look at us and our reactions seem overblown and hysterical because they assume there must be some middle ground. 

 

d) Russia is vast and I suspect there are a ton of differing views held to differing degrees of certainty.

 

That all said if someone is on here with a pro-Russia stance then it's going to cause issues unless that person has a lot of self awareness and my own experience is that those inside Russia who are fully western literate and capable of self awareness are anti war. 

 

 

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MPH

MPH

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

I wrote about my take on the Russian perspective based on the limited contact I've had with Russians who I know from before the war but it got deleted so I'll bullet point:

 

a) I know at least two who have taken part in anti-war demos, I don't know if anything has happened to them.

 

b) I've only had one take a "pro-Russia" stance and I didn't have the mental energy to get involved in a debate (this was on day 2 iirc and I didn't want to react emotionally to someone). They literally didn't know / were struggling to comprehend that the whole country had been invaded. I got the impression that Russians are so starved of reliable information that anyone arguing for an objective truth is automatically distrusted. 

 

c) It's difficult for Russians, they know that their own news sources are unreliable but they are confronted with western outrage and media unanimity and draw parallels with their own media. They look at us and our reactions seem overblown and hysterical because they assume there must be some middle ground. 

 

d) Russia is vast and I suspect there are a ton of differing views held to differing degrees of certainty.

 

That all said if someone is on here with a pro-Russia stance then it's going to cause issues unless that person has a lot of self awareness and my own experience is that those inside Russia who are fully western literate and capable of self awareness are anti war. 

 

 


I Must admit, I think one thing we need to be consider based on how things are going is   Collectively drawing a clear line between being absolutely against what  the Russians are doing  in Ukraine and an Anti-Russian sentiment.

 

now I 100% support sanctions of course  but we need to make sure  that ‘ Vasilev’  who lives down the street  and who may or may not support the war ( no one has bothered to ask him or speak to him recently ) isn’t targeted and treated with disdain simply because he’s Russian.

Edited by MPH
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LCFCCHRIS

LCFCCHRIS

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Posted (edited)

Trump still living rent free in everybody on FTs heads even though he didn't start this. In fact, he was between two presidents that were in office during major developments in this conflict, 2014 and now 2022.

Edited by LCFCCHRIS
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Tommy Fresh

Tommy Fresh

Posted
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

And the real mystery is how Trump got into office, not that he was removed.

I'm not Pro-Trump or even remotely that way inclined, but it's very easy to sit from an outside perspective and ridicule. Clearly there were huge parts of the US that felt he was a good option for them for whatever reason, as baffling as it may seem to us.

Edited by Tommy Fresh
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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

I'm not Pro-Trump or even remotely that way inclined, but it's very easy to sit from an outside perspective and ridicule. Clearly there were huge parts of the US that felt he was a good option for them for whatever reason, as baffling as it may seem to us.

This is probably off-topic to continue, but I'll keep it short.

 

I think the motivations of those who thought he was a good option aren't all that baffling. Understanding those motivations, however, doesn't excuse them or the effects they have had.

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

Trump still living rent free in everybody on FTs heads even though he didn't start this. In fact, he was between two presidents that were in office during major developments in this conflict, 2014 and now 2022.

Nether did Joe Biden. In fact there are many aspects of his shambolic and chaotic term (culminating in his supporters storming the Capitol) that undoubtably contributed to it - not least the division and the hatred that he implants in American society. 

 

He hasn't gone away. The prospect of a second term is utterly terrifying given some of the lunatics surrounding him and waiting in the wings who I contend are as significant threat to humanity as the Kremlin. And his damaging and corrosive rhetoric continues, praising Vladimir Putin and unbelievably, blaming the war in Ukraine on the supposed rigged election. 

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Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Perhaps I’m being naive, but this all sounds very genuine and heartfelt.

Most probably cus it is ..  :(

 

1 hour ago, String fellow said:

This makes for pretty sober reading.

https://www.politico.eu/article/fight-ukraine-russia-world-war-risk-real/

 

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 
Jeez ..  this is quite depressing…. I honestly haven’t got a clue where this is going.  He really is a madman and I’m afraid the state of the whole world is in his hands. 
 

P. S. The reason I haven’t  got any papers to read is because the printers on the island suffered a cyber attack ..   

 

 

Edited by Countryfox
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Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Countryfox said:

@Mark @davieG ..  Hello both. Just wondered if you could sort of leave threads relating to the war in Ukraine alone ..  where I am there’s been a power cut and the tv hasn’t worked for 3 days and no papers can be printed. FT has been a valuable source of information for me whilst also looking at how the best football team in the world ever are doing. It’s easy to work out who gives accurate information ..  and who talks horse sh1t.  Perhaps if you feel some of the posts are going south then just scrub them off and posters will hopefully behave after the warning or get banned. 
 

Finally it would be nice if you could put the removed Ukraine thread back (but locked) so we have a record of events for posterity ..  and can also see WHY it was locked ..  (as you did with the War thread)    
 

Of course, if you can’t I fully understand. 

@Mark @davieG  Cheers lads. 

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String fellow

String fellow

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Most probably cus it is ..  :(

 

 

 
Jeez ..  this is quite depressing…. I honestly haven’t got a clue where this is going.  He really is a madman and I’m afraid the state of the whole world is in his hands. 
 

P. S. The reason I have got any papers to read is because the printers on the island suffered a cyber attack ..   

The possibility of fierce armed resistance causing Putin to unleash a nuclear weapon on Ukraine is pretty alarming. How would he spin it? Maybe something like 'We tested a nuclear device over Russian soil'. How would the West respond? As you rightly said, it's not clear where is this all going. I hadn't realised that Putin fears being dispatched Gaddafi-style. Let's hope that he has nightmares about it.

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Izzy

Izzy

Posted
Posted (edited)

Rightly or wrongly we 'liberated' the people of Iraq from Sadam Hussein did we not?

 

With all these Russian protests and Putin clearly a whack job, do the Russian people not need liberating too?

 

In my simplistic view we send the F15's in to bomb the fvck out of Russia's military bases, drop the SAS in to take Putin and his cronies out, and then send in peace keeping troops to run the place until Russia is back on it's feet with a proper leader.

 

I'm not convinced the Russian Army are loyal to Putin so maybe they'd happily surrender and be glad to see the back of him.

 

I dunno. Too simplistic I'm sure and probably many reasons why this can't happen, but sitting back and doing fvck feels all wrong.

 

Edited by Izzy
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Sampson

Sampson

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2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Rightly or wrongly we 'liberated' the people of Iraq from Sadam Hussein did we not?

 

With all these Russian protests and Putin clearly a whack job, do the Russian people not need liberating too?

 

In my simplistic view we send the F15's in to bomb the fvck out of Russia's military bases, drop the SAS in to take Putin and his cronies out, and then send in peace keeping troops to run the place until Russia is back on it's feet with a proper leader.

 

I'm not convinced the Russian Army are loyal to Putin so maybe they'd happily surrender and be glad to see the back of him.

 

I dunno. Too simplistic I'm sure and probably many reasons why this can't happen, but sitting back and doing fvck feels all wrong.

 

Well the main problem is Russia have enough nuclear bombs to wipe out every person in non-Russia Europe and the US combined. 

People are scared if Putin is fenced into a corner then he might want to use them.

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