Ukraine

[WigstonWanderer]

6 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Caribbean 

Ah, for a minute there I thought you were in Russia. Was just wondering why you couldn’t get BBC in the first place.

[Mike Oxlong]

Just now, WigstonWanderer said:

Ah, for a minute there I thought you were in Russia. Was just wondering why you couldn’t get BBC in the first place.

I just assumed he was on the Saff 

[Countryfox]

1 minute ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Ah, for a minute there I thought you were in Russia. Was just wondering why you couldn’t get BBC in the first place.

There were ‘technical issues’ why several channels went down ..  there were some childrens channels still available and weirdly RT ..   and as for English papers I was told the printers had a cyber attack which still hasn’t been sorted. 

[Milo]

16 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Caribbean 

Fvck me, another holiday????! 
 

Who’s looking after the estate??! 

[Milo]

Seeing Klitchko in army fatigues is surreal 

[Countryfox]

Just shown civilians trying to get away near Kiev ..  a large explosion from some Russian artillery and then they showed the bodies of a man woman and two children ..  I can’t believe what I’m seeing. 

[thursday_next]

44 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Our politicians have been saying for more than a week that this is likely to be long and drawn out. They are being briefed by the MOD etc so you would expect them to have a decent handle on where it’s headed. 

 

Is this the same MOD that predicted a long and pleasant journey for Afghanistan to become a full-fledged sovereign nation only to have the Taliban take over in two days, by any chance? Nobody knows what the **** is going to happen, not even Putin. I wish I could find a two-hour documentary on Russian forces in Chechnya (or it may have been Afghanistan) which was shown on television and became something of a cult classic. Every time they showed the Russians moving around in armoured personnel carriers or tanks they played extremely aggressive Russian hip-hop very loud indeed as a symbol of how disorganised the Russians can be given a military exercise to perform. It was so funny and so scary at the same time. The Russians are crap but there's quite a lot of them. Who knows what's going to happen next?

[bovril]

24 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Just shown civilians trying to get away near Kiev ..  a large explosion from some Russian artillery and then they showed the bodies of a man woman and two children ..  I can’t believe what I’m seeing. 

This was sickening 

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, Tommy Fresh said:

I was responding to a point about Trump getting in to office being a mystery, when from over here it's fairly clear what a terrible person/option he was/is.

I know it.

 

And my point is that I think those reasons are not a mystery and understandable, and they're not excusable, largely because of what you say in the last sentence here. I think we agree on that last part in any case.

 

6 hours ago, weller54 said:

IF Putin stops at Ukraine!..

How about Finland, Poland, Estonia next?..

Let him take them as well if he threatens escalation?

Let's hope that it doesn't come down to a binary choice between letting him take those and nuclear holocaust, because no one country (or even a few) is worth the destruction of civilisation itself (including them).

[Parafox]

3 hours ago, David Hankey said:

I guess once a ceasefire has been declared and stuck to and the sooner the better. 

 

You will, of course, realise this requires co-operation from Putin and at the moment he can't be trusted on anything that passes his lips.

 

Edited 7 March 2022 by Parafox

[fuchsntf]

I have to state the Bloody obvious...Russia has become a murderous-nation..

Putin & his Cronies, are War criminals..

 

If we condemn ( rightly )the history of the normal older/past German  generations of being delibrately guilty in their denial & Not doing anything to fight against

their Government,  then Russian People of Conveniently turning a blind eye, to allow their countries despots, to Act out murderous brutal Genocide of

of innocent families  & children...Every Russian Business , the Oglis & Rich & high society are as guilty es their Military & Governent...Their Military generals

equally as guilty of being War criminals...Nobody can Blame "fake news & untruths",

 

Defending so invading Ukrain to secure Russias Way of life, ...How can this Evil Barbarian excuse these despotic actions...

This proves the man is insane &  probably  is suffering from a Terminal illness,  instead of beginning and going out proudly that serves & blossoms  his Russia to be admired..instead of creating a lasting myth of a Land Full of Murder Acceptance Groups of inglorius- bastards..

We also should Not forget Putin is Not alone in this genocide, and a reckoning & a Judgement day will be thrown into many other guilty parties..Including Russian

Civil Police.

 

The word Russian will be Stamped over 1000 years in Memory which in our generation has created the most of human-dregs that any evoled, educated ,civilised society as ever seen....

The Russians Joe Bloggs have to be forced & recognise,they have to totally Pay for , from their own individual pockets, the rebuilding of Ukrain...

unless they as a People can Shortly from within themselves Initiative a Coup d'tat.

We  have to rebuild, create & also Build a Non-Stop News & Communications bridge to inform & motivate the Russian people, without any propaganda jingle

 

 

At the moment I dont want to see a No fly zone...But neighbouring countries & Nato/non Nato countries should be encouraged to secretly & ASAP

Build & deliver 100s of attacking Military aeroplanes & reconnaisonce  Drones..

Ignoring Any threat from the insane Putin ..

 

[Countryfox]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

 

Let's hope that it doesn't come down to a binary choice between letting him take those and nuclear holocaust, because no one country (or even a few) is worth the destruction of civilisation itself (including them).

That’s how bullies survive thrive and grow in confidence .. they push and push till they either win and control everything ..  or somebody stands up to them. 
 

It’s there imbedded in the human psyche and has been there for time immemorial ..  

[Countryfox]

13 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

 

At the moment I dont want to see a No fly zone...But neighbouring countries & Nato/non Nato countries should be encouraged to secretly & ASAP

Build & deliver 100s of attacking Military aeroplanes & reconnaisonce  Drones..

Ignoring Any threat from the insane Putin ..

 

I’d agree with that but not sure it will happen ..  at some point you HAVE to do something. 

[leicsmac]

37 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

That’s how bullies survive thrive and grow in confidence .. they push and push till they either win and control everything ..  or somebody stands up to them. 
 

It’s there imbedded in the human psyche and has been there for time immemorial ..  

Yes. But what do you do when the aforementioned bully has the power to render practically all of civilisation null and void if they were insane enough? How do you "stand up" to that in a way that works?

[enmac]

 

[leicsmac]

11 hours ago, String fellow said:

The possibility of fierce armed resistance causing Putin to unleash a nuclear weapon on Ukraine is pretty alarming. How would he spin it? Maybe something like 'We tested a nuclear device over Russian soil'. How would the West respond? As you rightly said, it's not clear where is this all going. I hadn't realised that Putin fears being dispatched Gaddafi-style. Let's hope that he has nightmares about it.

I've been thinking about this, and I'm sure there's something in between conventional forces and a nuclear weapon that Putin might choose to use first should he lose patience and be mad enough.

 

Russia has a large chemical weapon arsenal. Novichok delivered in artillery shells on defended positions, for instance.

Edited 7 March 2022 by leicsmac

[cruzFOX]

I don't understand why the UN peacekeeping forces can't be sent in to hold the line. Or is it too little too late probably. This would have been a more credible deterrent to Putin rolling in and made him think twice about bombing innocent civilians. Sometimes I wonder what the hell is the point of a united nations if they can do F all in desperate situations like this. or is it they are scared of Putin. 

[leicsmac]

21 minutes ago, cruzFOX said:

I don't understand why the UN peacekeeping forces can't be sent in to hold the line. Or is it too little too late probably. This would have been a more credible deterrent to Putin rolling in and made him think twice about bombing innocent civilians. Sometimes I wonder what the hell is the point of a united nations if they can do F all in desperate situations like this. or is it they are scared of Putin. 

The UN, backed by the spectre of MAD, can and does stop the big boys from fighting each other and handles lower-level conflict OK too.

 

Sadly, they aren't useful for situations where one of the big boys decides to bully a smaller player like this, because those big players simply won't accept an authority higher than their own.

[MPH]

It’s all very bizarre behavior by Putin. Even Hitler  seemed to have more support/ Allie’s than what 

Putin does..

[LCFCCHRIS]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/17857369/ukraine-peace-negotiator-spy-shot-russia-kireev/amp/

 

Confusing story

[SpacedX]

8 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

At the minute that’s the best case scenario re Mariopul but I really don’t think it stops there.

It won't. They want Odessa and are advancing towards it. It'll be very difficult to take but the attack will also come from the assault ships in the Black Sea. 

[Finnegan]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Yes. But what do you do when the aforementioned bully has the power to render practically all of civilisation null and void if they were insane enough? How do you "stand up" to that in a way that works?

 

The thing with all of this "what if he fires the nukes!" panic is surely similar to the "omg Trump in charge of the nukes!" rhetoric. 

 

Maybe I've watched too many political thrillers but surely no one individual, even in a dictatorship, is truly in charge of firing the missiles? 

 

@Line-X seems to be our resident Russia expert (or the closest we have) so perhaps he can chime in here but surely even Vladimir Putin has to be surrounded by a certain amount of willing, complicit allies to be able to actually push the big red button.

 

Even if Putin has given up on living and wants his "legacy" to be the man who dropped the bomb, if the rest of the oligarchy want to keep on living and making money (and that's generally how those people work) then there's a limit to how much of their endorsement he can get? And a limit to how much even he can do without their support? 

[Innovindil]

 

Good luck out there lads. Hope you come home safe. 

 

[SpacedX]

31 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

The thing with all of this "what if he fires the nukes!" panic is surely similar to the "omg Trump in charge of the nukes!" rhetoric. 

 

Maybe I've watched too many political thrillers but surely no one individual, even in a dictatorship, is truly in charge of firing the missiles? 

 

@Line-X seems to be our resident Russia expert (or the closest we have) so perhaps he can chime in here but surely even Vladimir Putin has to be surrounded by a certain amount of willing, complicit allies to be able to actually push the big red button.

 

Even if Putin has given up on living and wants his "legacy" to be the man who dropped the bomb, if the rest of the oligarchy want to keep on living and making money (and that's generally how those people work) then there's a limit to how much of their endorsement he can get? And a limit to how much even he can do without their support? 

@MarshallForEngland should be your man regarding expertise. It's a shame though that such an articulate voice that could have added so much perspective and insight was so blinkered and trammelled in terms of his view of the outside world. A consequence of living under a dictatorship I guess. Take a look at his parthian shot on the other Ukraine thread that I was unable to respond to due to the thread being pulled - it says it all.

 

Until recently my brother lived in Moscow, and has made some very interesting observations over the years. The oligarchs really don't hold much sway. The reason that their money is banked abroad is that they don't trust Putin. It's within state that the change would have to come - the heads of the FSB, the military or the bankers and like the latter, they too have vested interests elsewhere, but as I have mentioned, the politburo no longer exists, so there are no channels to remove him. 

 

You are absolutely right I think regarding his complicit allies. He has hand picked a very loyal cabal of like minded thinkers. An assassination as improbable as it is, may create an even more dangerous power vacuum. When the so called 'grey cardinal' Vladimir Surkov is removed, - who steered the propaganda machine, drove the imperialistic doctrine, controlled the parties in the Duma and subdued the opposition and helped Putin cement his power for so long (think Dominic Cummins even more evil eastern counterpart) - you know there are other significant players that have the President's ear and shape his designs. 

 

 

Edited 7 March 2022 by Line-X
Typos

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

It won't. They want Odessa and are advancing towards it. It'll be very difficult to take but the attack will also come from the assault ships in the Black Sea. 

I think they will want to take Odessa as a big bargaining chip if they eventually need to negotiate a settlement 

 

ukraine really has to have port access to the Black Sea to retain its sovereign trading status.  The Russians having this is huge for them.

it’s also more than likely that they want to extend their s Ukraine land bridge to Moldova to link up with the Russian separatist region there and putin can declare that he has enabled all those who want to be part of Russia to maintain a physical attachment to the motherland.

 

not sure what he can do about Kaliningrad though !