Contracts and the mess we're in

[ClaphamFox]

45 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I honestly do feel bad that we’ve apparently gone from being a club we could be proud of, in terms of signing the right players and getting them to play well, whilst not going overboard financially, to one that’s signing garbage and not even playing them!

Rodgers is as culpable as anyone here I reckon. He surely must have some say in terms of who we sign and the likes of Perez, Soumare, Vestergaard, Bertrand are costing the club a significant amount of money whilst he basically continues to play mostly the players who were already here!

We haven’t progressed much under Rodgers in terms of this aspect and he’ll probably leave us in some turmoil I suspect 

All leading clubs have highly-paid flops on their books - all of them. This is because signing players is not an exact science and there will always be some that don’t make the grade. Unfortunately we haven’t struck upon some magic formula that enables us to get it right every time - but nobody else has either.

[Claridge]

I'm not sure i get the panic. 3 or 4 transfers out and it will be pretty well sorted. You always get transfers that don't work, but a fofana sale would level all of last seasons crap in one go.

[kingfox]

51 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I honestly do feel bad that we’ve apparently gone from being a club we could be proud of, in terms of signing the right players and getting them to play well, whilst not going overboard financially, to one that’s signing garbage and not even playing them!

Rodgers is as culpable as anyone here I reckon. He surely must have some say in terms of who we sign and the likes of Perez, Soumare, Vestergaard, Bertrand are costing the club a significant amount of money whilst he basically continues to play mostly the players who were already here!

We haven’t progressed much under Rodgers in terms of this aspect and he’ll probably leave us in some turmoil I suspect 

Well, he is a guy who replaced Luis Suarez with Mario Balotelli & Rickie Lambert at Liverpool. 
 

The most successful window they had while he was in charge was 2015-2016, by October though he was sacked.

 

Klopp’s first summer in charge goes to show the mess that Rodgers signed, he soon binned off Kolo Toure, Joe Allen, Mario Balotelli & Christian Benteke.

[justfoxes]

On 15/07/2022 at 14:52, Costock_Fox said:

I’d imagine that once the summer picture becomes clearer we will retain Evans, Vardy, Maddison and Wilf on new contracts but otherwise I don’t think this is the main issue.

 

For me the main issue is that Perez, Mendy, Bertrand, Yannik, Praet and even Albrighton are currently paid more than their worth and we can’t get rid.

I’m just hoping that the reports linking Madders to spuds to be just lazy journalism  and nothing more to it just can’t think we’d be stupid enough to allow him to go, this is going to be his best season he’s grown so much since last season he’s going to be important for us in the coming season so we need to tie him down to a decent contract, BR needs to sort out these contracts ASAP as with Youri winding down his contract looks like we may have our pants pulled down again on losing a player for peanuts let alone for free next year !

[Aus Fox]

On 21/07/2022 at 04:04, kingfox said:

Well, he is a guy who replaced Luis Suarez with Mario Balotelli & Rickie Lambert at Liverpool. 
 

The most successful window they had while he was in charge was 2015-2016, by October though he was sacked.

 

Klopp’s first summer in charge goes to show the mess that Rodgers signed, he soon binned off Kolo Toure, Joe Allen, Mario Balotelli & Christian Benteke.

You can’t really look at transfers at Liverpool as they are done by a transfer committee, not necessarily the manger. From what I understand listening to people who have been on the committee,  the manager tells them the position they want to improve on, they the committee then go out and find three or four players who meet the need and they think will be within budget. 
There is then a conversation between the committee, manager and coaches, and the board before the committee makes the final decision on who to buy. 
There was never Rodgers going in and saying I want this player or that one. It’s was widely publicised at the time Rodgers was there how crap the committee were and most fans wanted it gone.

[VLC86]

18 minutes ago, justfoxes said:

I’m just hoping that the reports linking Madders to spuds to be just lazy journalism  and nothing more to it just can’t think we’d be stupid enough to allow him to go, this is going to be his best season he’s grown so much since last season he’s going to be important for us in the coming season so we need to tie him down to a decent contract, BR needs to sort out these contracts ASAP as with Youri winding down his contract looks like we may have our pants pulled down again on losing a player for peanuts let alone for free next year !

He is our key player now for sure, there will have to be a time when we cash in if the right money is on the table unfortunately and with no obvious replacement in the squad thanks to everything I’ve been saying about recruitment it’s definitely a worry.

[Foxy-Lady]

On 16/07/2022 at 08:03, smudgerfox said:

Isn’t Bertrand part of a footballers agent outfit which is part run by Brendan’s son? 

If True (if?), that is none of the most concerning things of all about this transfer for me....the fact that such a scenario exists and is possibly open to repeat...?!?

[Aus Fox]

1 minute ago, Foxy-Lady said:

If True (if?), that is none of the most concerning things of all about this transfer for me....the fact that such a scenario exists and is possibly open to repeat...?!?

Why?

Are you suggesting because Rodgers son is an agent, or works for an agency. We should never sign any players they have on their books? 
 

[ParkerPen]

1 minute ago, Aus Fox said:

Why?

Are you suggesting because Rodgers son is an agent, or works for an agency. We should never sign any players they have on their books? 
 

we just should not sign 'bertrands'  

[Vazman]

34 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

You can’t really look at transfers at Liverpool as they are done by a transfer committee, not necessarily the manger. From what I understand listening to people who have been on the committee,  the manager tells them the position they want to improve on, they the committee then go out and find three or four players who meet the need and they think will be within budget. 
There is then a conversation between the committee, manager and coaches, and the board before the committee makes the final decision on who to buy. 
There was never Rodgers going in and saying I want this player or that one. It’s was widely publicised at the time Rodgers was there how crap the committee were and most fans wanted it gone.

If you think the Manager has No say on signings your in denial, of course they do, perhaps not the last word, but they most certainly would, are you saying Klopp has absolutely no say at Liverpool and it's all down to a committee's say so, like every club checks and balances will be in force.

[Aus Fox]

1 minute ago, Vazman said:

If you think the Manager has No say on signings your in denial, of course they do, perhaps not the last word, but they most certainly would, are you saying Klopp has absolutely no say at Liverpool and it's all down to a committee's say so, like every club checks and balances will be in force.

I’m not saying they have no say, but, they don’t have the only say and it’s a committee of people rather than one individual solely responsible for the transfer dealings. The manager will work with the committee and put their suggestions in for sure, but when you have a committee one individual isn’t taking all the blame, the same as one individual isn’t solely responsible for the successful transfers.

[Vazman]

1 minute ago, Aus Fox said:

I’m not saying they have no say, but, they don’t have the only say and it’s a committee of people rather than one individual solely responsible for the transfer dealings. The manager will work with the committee and put their suggestions in for sure, but when you have a committee one individual isn’t taking all the blame, the same as one individual isn’t solely responsible for the successful transfers.

I agree completely, but in the same breath, all managers are quick to accept the praise when a signing works out, its human nature.

[indierich06]

Looks like we could be in a situation where we get rid of Amartey, Vestergaard, Soumare & maybe Tielemans - that would surely be enough to make room for/finance a couple of additions to the squad. Just wish we could have sorted some of this out sooner in the window. 

 

There has to genuinely be a change in the way we dish out contracts though, so many average players on ridiculous contracts - we need to get back to basics and get a proper structure in place.

[An Sionnach]

1 minute ago, indierich06 said:

Looks like we could be in a situation where we get rid of Amartey, Vestergaard, Soumare & maybe Tielemans - that would surely be enough to make room for/finance a couple of additions to the squad. Just wish we could have sorted some of this out sooner in the window. 

 

There has to genuinely be a change in the way we dish out contracts though, so many average players on ridiculous contracts - we need to get back to basics and get a proper structure in place.

The can will get kicked down the road. Football clubs tend to react to situations and proper planning is a rarity. The madness at Man. Utd. illustrates this perfectly.

[Foxy-Lady]

On 22/07/2022 at 10:16, Aus Fox said:

Why?

Are you suggesting because Rodgers son is an agent, or works for an agency. We should never sign any players they have on their books? 
 

No, not saying that at all.....no need for you to put words in my mouth.

 

Im just stating the obvious that there is a "potential" conflict of interest that might exist and that is always a concern for any business. 

 

Im not sure how many other players we have signed from Rodgers sons agency since Rodgers has been manager, but if Bertrand is the only one, its not exactly a very impressive argument to counter any "potential" conflict of interest argument.

 

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Foxy-Lady said:

No, not saying that at all.....no need for you to put words in my mouth.

 

Im just stating the obvious that there is a "potential" conflict of interest that might exist and that is always a concern for any business. 

 

Im not sure how many other players we have signed from Rodgers sons agency since Rodgers has been manager, but if Bertrand is the only one, its not exactly a very impressive argument to counter any "potential" conflict of interest argument.

 

You'd be shocked at how many clubs this occurs at then. Mostly notably Alex Ferguson and his agent son. 

 

The agency isn't ran by Bertrand or Rodgers' son. Its directors are two gentlemen called Louis Bell and Oliver Ward. It actually has links to Warner Music and DAZN. Most of its footballers are kids, the vast majority in with the Chelsea set-up (although there is three Leicester lads in there). 

[bald reynard]

On 15/07/2022 at 14:37, AKCJ said:

Players whose contracts expire in Summer 2023;

Youri Tielemans, Caglar Soyuncu, Daniel Amartey, Ayoze Perez, Jamie Vardy, Kasper Schmeichel, Nampalys Mendy, Ryan Bertrand, Hamza Choudhury and Jonny Evans (10 players).

 

Players whose contracts expire in Summer 2024;

Wilfred Ndidi, James Maddison, Kelechi Iheanacho, Yannik Vestergaard, Dennis Praet, Like Thomas and Marc Albrighton (7 players).

 

That's 17 first team players who have less than 24 months left on their contracts here at Leicester. Less time than a normal phone contract ffs.

 

How have we positioned ourselves this badly and have left us with such little room for manoeuvre when we look to sell our better players? We're coming out of a golden era of Leicester talent in the likes of Soyuncu, Tielemans, Maddison, Ndidi and Iheanacho. Likely worth in excess of £250m if under contract that will either leave for free of for pittance. All at the perfect age and stage in their development to play UCL football for the world's biggest clubs and we're going to piss their fee up the wall.

 

The only players we have 'tied up' are;

Harvey Barnes, Danny Ward and Tim Castagne (Until 2025)

Bouba Soumare, James Justin, Ricardo Pereira and Patson Daka (Until 2026)

Wes Fofana and Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall (Until 2027)

 

Players like Maddison and Ndidi need to be paid properly and need to be tied up so that we can guarantee a proper fee for when clubs come knocking. Reports of £25m for a player like Tielemans just shows how much we're ****ing ourselves over. He's a player that came for £32m and then improved further here ffs.

 

Our inability to move deadwood on has been laughable. Hamza, Perez, Mendy, Praet and Amartey should all have left years ago. Liverpool routinely get £10-20m for players that are surplus to demands there. Obviously these players aren't as good as Liverpool's reserves but we should be getting £30m+ for these sorts of players, instead we're probably going to get nothing and will spend the time waiting for their contracts to expire with them out on loan with us still paying a portion of their wage.

 

The big reset we're supposed to have been having has obviously stalled and that's because we've got a bloated squad of players on expiring contracts and nobody wants them.

I haven't seen a more up to date post on Contracts than this (in July 2022) - is there one ?

 

If not, this one is still pretty relevant - only Schmeichel and Fofana have actually 'flown' - though a couple (certainly Perez & Soyuncu) are already in the 'Departure Lounge'

Edited 29 May 2023 by bald reynard

[Outfox the Fox]

21 minutes ago, bald reynard said:

I haven't seen a more up to date post on Contracts than this (in July 2022) - is there one ?

 

If not, this one is still pretty relevant - only Schmeichel and Fofana have actually 'flown' - though a couple (certainly Perez & Soyuncu) are already in the 'Departure Lounge'

 

On 15/07/2022 at 14:37, AKCJ said:

Players whose contracts expire in Summer 2023;

Youri Tielemans, Caglar Soyuncu, Daniel Amartey, Ayoze Perez, Jamie Vardy, Kasper Schmeichel, Nampalys Mendy, Ryan Bertrand, Hamza Choudhury and Jonny Evans (10 players).

 

Players whose contracts expire in Summer 2024;

Wilfred Ndidi, James Maddison, Kelechi Iheanacho, Yannik Vestergaard, Dennis Praet, Like Thomas and Marc Albrighton (7 players).

 

That's 17 first team players who have less than 24 months left on their contracts here at Leicester. Less time than a normal phone contract ffs.

 

How have we positioned ourselves this badly and have left us with such little room for manoeuvre when we look to sell our better players? We're coming out of a golden era of Leicester talent in the likes of Soyuncu, Tielemans, Maddison, Ndidi and Iheanacho. Likely worth in excess of £250m if under contract that will either leave for free of for pittance. All at the perfect age and stage in their development to play UCL football for the world's biggest clubs and we're going to piss their fee up the wall.

 

The only players we have 'tied up' are;

Harvey Barnes, Danny Ward and Tim Castagne (Until 2025)

Bouba Soumare, James Justin, Ricardo Pereira and Patson Daka (Until 2026)

Wes Fofana and Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall (Until 2027)

 

Players like Maddison and Ndidi need to be paid properly and need to be tied up so that we can guarantee a proper fee for when clubs come knocking. Reports of £25m for a player like Tielemans just shows how much we're ****ing ourselves over. He's a player that came for £32m and then improved further here ffs.

 

Our inability to move deadwood on has been laughable. Hamza, Perez, Mendy, Praet and Amartey should all have left years ago. Liverpool routinely get £10-20m for players that are surplus to demands there. Obviously these players aren't as good as Liverpool's reserves but we should be getting £30m+ for these sorts of players, instead we're probably going to get nothing and will spend the time waiting for their contracts to expire with them out on loan with us still paying a portion of their wage.

 

The big reset we're supposed to have been having has obviously stalled and that's because we've got a bloated squad of players on expiring contracts and nobody wants them.

Thanks for reposting AKCJ's original.  As you say, I think its still very relevant and says so much about the s**t we're in, re contracts.

Edited 29 May 2023 by Outfox the Fox

[Lichfieldfox.]

Do we know if all those in contract have relegation wage reduction clauses written in? 

 

What's the contractual position for Daka, Soumare, Tete, Smithies and Kristiansen?

[ian__marshall]

I believe we activated an option to extend Choudhury's contract for a year before he went out on loan that'll need updating in that list. Not sure about the others though. 

[fox_favourite]

2 minutes ago, Lichfieldfox. said:

Do we know if all those in contract have relegation wage reduction clauses written in? 

 

What's the contractual position for Daka, Soumare, Tete, Smithies and Kristiansen?

Tete was a loan till the end of the season, so he's gone.

[moore_94]

6 minutes ago, Lichfieldfox. said:

Do we know if all those in contract have relegation wage reduction clauses written in? 

 

What's the contractual position for Daka, Soumare, Tete, Smithies and Kristiansen?

35-50% wage reductions according to Percy

Edited 29 May 2023 by moore_94

[Guest Col city fan]

"Leicester will be the most expensive squad, with the highest wage bill, to be relegated in Premier League history," sport finance expert Kieran Maguire told Radio Leicester's When You're Smiling podcast.
 

What an absolute fook up of a club….. 🤦‍♀️

[Winchesterfox]

On 20/07/2022 at 18:50, ClaphamFox said:

All leading clubs have highly-paid flops on their books - all of them. This is because signing players is not an exact science and there will always be some that don’t make the grade. Unfortunately we haven’t struck upon some magic formula that enables us to get it right every time - but nobody else has either.

Fair point, but we have had more than our share of duds iin recent years on very high wages.  

[BillyFOX12]

Still breaking EPL records, nice one lads!