Contracts and the mess we're in

[Ian Nacho]

With players with a couple of years left, it ultimately comes down to if there’s interest in them. For example, if someone puts serious offers for Iheancho, Ndidi, Barnes, Castagne etc, then it makes business sense to accept those offers. I can also see us utilising the loan market too with us loaning players to PL clubs just to get them off the wage bill if at least partially. 

[Chrysalis]

20 hours ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Think it's purchase price not value - just a quick back of the fag packet calculation, comes to a similar figure:

 

14 million on ward?

[Chrysalis]

18 hours ago, Golden Fox said:

 

Agree with most of this:

 

We need to get as much as possible for Barnes & Maddison - I think Catagne, Ndidi & Praet should have have enough of a Premier League track record to attract reasonable money and to clear from the wage bill - and we just need to get rid by any means of Vestergaard & Ward as nobody will want to touch them.

 

I honestly can't see we'll be in a position to spend any money on transfer fees, but even without any additions that gives a possible 11 for next year of:

 

                              Iheanacho  -   Daka

 

                    Soumare -  Choudhury   -  Dewsbury Hall

 

Kristiansen - Thomas   -  Faes   - Soutter    - Periera

 

                                           Iverson

 

Bench: Vardy, Albrighton

 

Losing 15 wages & getting 5 transfer fees in... could do enough financially to avoid a complete fire sale, and I think there is a pretty good side in there for the Championship. Despite what I wrote in another thread, I think our 11 looks a different proposition keeping Nacho... you need a good focal point as a striker in the Championship, and we'd be very lucky to find the right player in the bargain bins.

 

I do think we will need to see an experienced head on a free transfer to come into midfield (in the Garry Parker mould) and would love to have Evans return on a player/coach contract, but you do look at the squad we have & I can see a way forward despite the coming cull.

I think the club need to be prepared to actually pay off players to leave should no one be interested in them to avoid the "stinking out the place" problem.  Not sure if its within Whelan to do that though.  An ex player mentioned how bad an effect this can have if you let players not wanted stick around.

 

I think is 3 players who have come out now who said that the club simply didnt respond to contract talk requests, just a simple turning the head away decision, which is concerning, seems to be a lack of leadership at the club right now.

 

Nacho would be the one in the 2024 list I want to keep.

 

Would also be happy to keep Albrighton and Hamza who seem willing enough to play in this division.

[jv1]

Here is my 2 cents

 

There are a few categories here 

 

1- out of contract - all leave - I don’t see us even thinking of offering new deals to Mendy or amartey - wages to high for championship- that’s 8 gone 

 

2- definite sales - Maddison , barnes , castagne - £100m

 

3- potential further sales or loan outs if anyone wanted them that we will be happy to let leave - ndidi, praet, soumare , faes, daka , ward , vestegard - £50m 

 

4- ones that should definitely be staying and we should want to stay and build squad around  - Iverson , smithies , kdh, vardy , Thomas , kristensen , souttar, choudry, albrighton 

 

5- ones we should be desperately trying to keep that would get us promoted and make the difference but will be touch and go as there will definitely be interest- ihenacho, JJ, Ricardo 

 

so that’s between 15 and 18 players out - £100-150m in 

 

9-12 players left to build squad around - depending on the 3 we should really be doing everything to keep I think we need 8-10 new players in 

 

2-4 defenders 

4 - 5 mids or wide 

1-2 more forwards 

 

for me keeping those 3 is massive - all seem like top pros as well - make kdh captain - go to 352 and be bloody deadly with vardy and iheanacho up top all year 

 

Iverson 

         ?       Souttar.    ?

rivardo.                         Justin 

                   ?           ? 

                       Kdh     
         Iheanacho.   Vardy 

 

albrighton 

thomas

kristenson 

chodury 

smithies 

?

?

 

 

If faes, ndidi, vestegard don’t leave or they could get Mendy or amartey to sign a contract on reduced money any of the 5 of them could easily slot into that 11 - if they all leave then it’s important we get 4 starting 11 signings needed and 4or5 more for the squad - I don’t see any reason we couldn’t be very competitive in that league 

 

[Hamilton Fox]

50 minutes ago, jv1 said:

Here is my 2 cents

 

There are a few categories here 

 

1- out of contract - all leave - I don’t see us even thinking of offering new deals to Mendy or amartey - wages to high for championship- that’s 8 gone 

 

2- definite sales - Maddison , barnes , castagne - £100m

 

3- potential further sales or loan outs if anyone wanted them that we will be happy to let leave - ndidi, praet, soumare , faes, daka , ward , vestegard - £50m 

 

4- ones that should definitely be staying and we should want to stay and build squad around  - Iverson , smithies , kdh, vardy , Thomas , kristensen , souttar, choudry, albrighton 

 

5- ones we should be desperately trying to keep that would get us promoted and make the difference but will be touch and go as there will definitely be interest- ihenacho, JJ, Ricardo 

 

so that’s between 15 and 18 players out - £100-150m in 

 

9-12 players left to build squad around - depending on the 3 we should really be doing everything to keep I think we need 8-10 new players in 

 

2-4 defenders 

4 - 5 mids or wide 

1-2 more forwards 

 

for me keeping those 3 is massive - all seem like top pros as well - make kdh captain - go to 352 and be bloody deadly with vardy and iheanacho up top all year 

 

Iverson 

         ?       Souttar.    ?

rivardo.                         Justin 

                   ?           ? 

                       Kdh     
         Iheanacho.   Vardy 

 

albrighton 

thomas

kristenson 

chodury 

smithies 

?

?

 

 

If faes, ndidi, vestegard don’t leave or they could get Mendy or amartey to sign a contract on reduced money any of the 5 of them could easily slot into that 11 - if they all leave then it’s important we get 4 starting 11 signings needed and 4or5 more for the squad - I don’t see any reason we couldn’t be very competitive in that league 

 

Agree with most of this, would probably keep Faes as well can’t see us getting much better in the champ him and souttar should be good enough to keep clean sheets there. 
If we can keep that spine I think we’d have a good chance of going up but can’t see us keeping Nacho unfortunately, think he will have a lot of low prem teams after him

[Stadt]

We’re not going to let 15 players leave 

[urban fox]

5 hours ago, Stadt said:

We’re not going to let 15 players leave 

We may not have a choice. There are 8 out of contract who can simply walk away, at least 2 or 3, maddison et al, who we simply cannot afford to keep realistically and a few more who will be wanting away such as castagne,  ricardo, ndidi.

Unfortunately there is little loyalty left in football these days and whilst many of the current squad must take some of the blame for the situation we are in they will not stick around to try and put it right.

Edited 31 May 2023 by urban fox

[Winchesterfox]

7 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

14 million on ward?

Even worse when you remember that Nick Pope went to Newcastle last summer for £10m.  

[fox_up_north]

On the subject of Maddison or Barnes - they're contracted to us. It raises the question of does it make more sense to keep them, get up to EPL and have that money there or to sell?

 

I know we'll sell, obviously, but if they stayed and committed to a final year, is that of greater value to us?

[Old Fox]

6 hours ago, Stadt said:

We’re not going to let 15 players leave 

I bet we do - Burnley did similar and they didn’t have a wage bill anything like ours…..hopefully it’s players who could not be bothered - Maddison, Barnes, Faes, Castagne, Praet, Mendy, Kristensen (wont want to stay), Vestegaard, Soyuncu - sadly think JJ, KDH, Daka and Kel will go too….wouldn’t bother me if any or all the keepers left ….

 

[dylanlegend]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

On the subject of Maddison or Barnes - they're contracted to us. It raises the question of does it make more sense to keep them, get up to EPL and have that money there or to sell?

 

I know we'll sell, obviously, but if they stayed and committed to a final year, is that of greater value to us?

Maddison is gone but we should try and keep Barnes unless a ‘top 7’ club offers 50mill+.

 

If it’s to sell to Villa, West Ham I don’t really see what’s he’s gaining especially if we get promoted in one season.

 

We should try and keep Barnes and any 2 of our 3 strikers if we are serious about promotion.
 

People keep talking about selling our attacking midfielders / strike force but don’t seem to realize that’s the only thing that is currently good about our team. It’s the defence that needs sorting. 

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, Old Fox said:

I bet we do - Burnley did similar and they didn’t have a wage bill anything like ours…..hopefully it’s players who could not be bothered - Maddison, Barnes, Faes, Castagne, Praet, Mendy, Kristensen (wont want to stay), Vestegaard, Soyuncu - sadly think JJ, KDH, Daka and Kel will go too….wouldn’t bother me if any or all the keepers left ….

 

Players who don’t need to be sold will not be sold unless we received silly offers (which we won’t) or the player indicates that they don’t want to stay which I doubt will be the case with any of the three that arrived since last august.
 
I would be surprised if we sell anyone not in their final year (wilf, kel, Dennis, vestergaard ) apart from the obvious three (madders, Barnes, Timmy).  the aim of the club is to bounce back immediately - I think Leeds and soton will have broadly the same squads as this season less a couple of big names.  Unless we retain the quality we have then we could be struggling to stay with the pace 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

On the subject of Maddison or Barnes - they're contracted to us. It raises the question of does it make more sense to keep them, get up to EPL and have that money there or to sell?

 

I know we'll sell, obviously, but if they stayed and committed to a final year, is that of greater value to us?

 

1 minute ago, dylanlegend said:

Maddison is gone but we should try and keep Barnes unless a ‘top 7’ club offers 50mill+.

 

If it’s to sell to Villa, West Ham I don’t really see what’s he’s gaining especially if we get promoted in one season.

 

We should try and keep Barnes and any 2 of our 3 strikers if we are serious about promotion.
 

People keep talking about selling our attacking midfielders / strike force but don’t seem to realize that’s the only thing that is currently good about our team. It’s the defence that needs sorting. 

Madders is definitely gone 

Barnes is a difficult call - will he be the difference between coming back or not?  In a years time if we fail, his value will be very suppressed with a year left. we are likely to play hardball with any suitors this summer and try to get fair value. I think the message that KP stands by the club is meant to say to clubs - pay the price or eff off. 
 

he was apparently not interested in signing any contract extension this past season so I think we should move on and take a good fee for him. even if we came back up he would still be looking to go and we would have a possible issue that he may see out his final year. 

[Jamie Vard-on]

Shift as many high-earners as possible. 
 

They couldn’t be arsed playing in the Prem, so won’t in the Champ.

 

If Vardy wants to stay, I’d keep him. He could defo make an impact in the Champ. He’s on about £145k a week, so who knows.

[volpeazzurro]

21 hours ago, Old Fox said:

We will see but two English qualified international level talents both under contract …..I think £45m for Barnes and £50m at least for Maddison so good deals should be £100m+ combined ….anything less and we will have sold ourselves short imo

You end up selling for what you can get like anything in life, not for what you think it's worth or what it's worth to you. 

[Spudulike]

5 hours ago, Jamie Vard-on said:

Shift as many high-earners as possible. 
 

They couldn’t be arsed playing in the Prem, so won’t in the Champ.

 

If Vardy wants to stay, I’d keep him. He could defo make an impact in the Champ. He’s on about £145k a week, so who knows.

Unless he's one of those with a relegation clause 

[Heathrow fox]

19 hours ago, jv1 said:

Here is my 2 cents

 

There are a few categories here 

 

1- out of contract - all leave - I don’t see us even thinking of offering new deals to Mendy or amartey - wages to high for championship- that’s 8 gone 

 

2- definite sales - Maddison , barnes , castagne - £100m

 

3- potential further sales or loan outs if anyone wanted them that we will be happy to let leave - ndidi, praet, soumare , faes, daka , ward , vestegard - £50m 

 

4- ones that should definitely be staying and we should want to stay and build squad around  - Iverson , smithies , kdh, vardy , Thomas , kristensen , souttar, choudry, albrighton 

 

5- ones we should be desperately trying to keep that would get us promoted and make the difference but will be touch and go as there will definitely be interest- ihenacho, JJ, Ricardo 

 

so that’s between 15 and 18 players out - £100-150m in 

 

9-12 players left to build squad around - depending on the 3 we should really be doing everything to keep I think we need 8-10 new players in 

 

2-4 defenders 

4 - 5 mids or wide 

1-2 more forwards 

 

for me keeping those 3 is massive - all seem like top pros as well - make kdh captain - go to 352 and be bloody deadly with vardy and iheanacho up top all year 

 

Iverson 

         ?       Souttar.    ?

rivardo.                         Justin 

                   ?           ? 

                       Kdh     
         Iheanacho.   Vardy 

 

albrighton 

thomas

kristenson 

chodury 

smithies 

?

?

 

 

If faes, ndidi, vestegard don’t leave or they could get Mendy or amartey to sign a contract on reduced money any of the 5 of them could easily slot into that 11 - if they all leave then it’s important we get 4 starting 11 signings needed and 4or5 more for the squad - I don’t see any reason we couldn’t be very competitive in that league 

 

Point 4 doesn’t feel me with much confidence,if that’s what we end up having to build around.

[jv1]

7 hours ago, Heathrow fox said:

Point 4 doesn’t feel me with much confidence,if that’s what we end up having to build around.

Me neither but close to reality I think- however iv never known a club to shed 10-15 of their 1st team squad in 1 summer - this situation is so unique with so many that would supposedly be to to good for the championship and have interest from top level teams here and abroad 

[Heathrow fox]

11 hours ago, jv1 said:

Me neither but close to reality I think- however iv never known a club to shed 10-15 of their 1st team squad in 1 summer - this situation is so unique with so many that would supposedly be to to good for the championship and have interest from top level teams here and abroad 

On paper the defence looks more than adequate.Needs a bit of magic stat dust further up the pitch.

There was a colossal amount of player turn around during the up and down campaigns of Micky Adams.It’s the only thing I can think of that’s similar to this summer’s situation.

[Leicester_Loyal]

On 31/05/2023 at 13:45, fox_up_north said:

On the subject of Maddison or Barnes - they're contracted to us. It raises the question of does it make more sense to keep them, get up to EPL and have that money there or to sell?

 

I know we'll sell, obviously, but if they stayed and committed to a final year, is that of greater value to us?

Sell. 
 

We can’t keep risking players having 1 year left on their contracts or going for free. 

[SheppyFox]

On 31/05/2023 at 06:23, Chrysalis said:

14 million on ward?

[Winstonthedog]

22 hours ago, jv1 said:

Me neither but close to reality I think- however iv never known a club to shed 10-15 of their 1st team squad in 1 summer - this situation is so unique with so many that would supposedly be to to good for the championship and have interest from top level teams here and abroad 

Many of these players shed the club months ago 

[jv1]

10 hours ago, Heathrow fox said:

On paper the defence looks more than adequate.Needs a bit of magic stat dust further up the pitch.

There was a colossal amount of player turn around during the up and down campaigns of Micky Adams.It’s the only thing I can think of that’s similar to this summer’s situation.

Completely agree - if we can keep nacho he will provide some of that but we will need a bit of creativity to replace Maddison and barnes no doubt about it - I’d be trying to get amartey and Mendy to sign a contract on reduced wages - both would be good enough next year especially Mendy - he would be very good and play every game if we finally got a bloody manager that rated him ffs 

[Heathrow fox]

14 hours ago, jv1 said:

Completely agree - if we can keep nacho he will provide some of that but we will need a bit of creativity to replace Maddison and barnes no doubt about it - I’d be trying to get amartey and Mendy to sign a contract on reduced wages - both would be good enough next year especially Mendy - he would be very good and play every game if we finally got a bloody manager that rated him ffs 

With you on Mendy.Amartey even.Thing with Mendy is that this is his last chance to cash in.He’s p/p paid for.Of course it’s all manager dependent.Whoever takes over will probably just move everybody on regardless.Will be interesting to see how he gets on.Where’s Puel again?

[AyewJoking]

Amartey may be ok in the championship and better the devil you know but I just really want him gone.

 

He won't improve but the club have gone down to his level.