Leicester to reveal estimated annual losses of £119.5MILLION - the highest in the Premier League

[SpacedX]

36 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Words are easy. Actions are proof of commitment. KP are financially in trouble. Do you think they'd let their duty free empire sink in favour of us?  

The King Power business sustained huge losses during Covid, but that does not mean it is financially in trouble, far less an 'Empire about to sink'.

 

The owners have temporarily pulled the purse strings for sure, but no question, they have a long term commitment to the club. As they have consistently said - "To continue competing in the Premier League requires a disciplined, sustainable and innovative business model"

 

At a cost of £100m, they built a training ground which arguably rivals any other club facility in world football. That was money which could have been spent on the squad, but the vision has always been building something more lasting, a foundation and something which will help attract world-class signings in the future and help further develop the home-grown talent and an Academy that has served us so well in the past. They have not detracted from their plans to build the hotel complex, the events and entertainment venue, and stadium expansion and they resisted the sale of Tielemans, Maddison and Fofana whilst offering Vardy a new contract and negotiated strongly to keep Kasper. We currently, without the drain of European competition - (injuries aside) - have a squad capable of finishing mid table. 

 

The miscalculation appears to have been that to "continue competing in the Premier League" with a stagnating squad requires an astute strategist, and an innovative and clever manager. There are others, with the same resources at their disposal, that would have come away from the Brentford, Saints and United encounters with three points - notwithstanding some of the errors and poor player performances. I'd argue strongly that all those games were eminently winnable and Chelsea too, where we should at the very least ground out a draw. We didn't due to the wrong selections, bewildering tactics and substitutions. Were it not for that, we would be on at least ten points and sitting where Brentford are right now. Not to say that Brendan doesn't have problems - in particular the erratic Ward, (who has at least shown some occasional signs of potential). The frustration being, that many of these problems are of his own making. He seems to consistently ignore our strengths and play to or introduce our weaknesses, which is precisely why we have gone from 'fearless' to 'fragile'. 

 

The test of the owners resolve now is to relieve him of his position and find someone that can get us out of this morass. A solution is not forthcoming. Most of the suggestions on this forum have been either grossly unrealistic, fanciful or frankly, ridiculous. Right now, it's likely to be an unglamorous but pragmatic appointment. You know where I'm going with this...

[StonyFox]

Is this not due to the £100m on the training ground, and not selling any playing assets last summer, and the next financial report will show a much smaller loss? or am I over simplifying things?

 

 

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

I might be naive here, but shouldn’t the club be separate to KP? 

...we are a separate entity, so a separate balance sheet, but I believe we do come under the umbrella of The King Power Group!!!

Intercompany transactions I would think would be listed on the various relevant balance sheets, so it would be possible to see where the money has gone and who benefitted.

[420Hashish]

Someone ring up Elon Musk

[ithuriel]

Got to admit, there's more speculation that goes on here than on the floor of the London stock exchange, most impressive 

[gazzaa2]

1 hour ago, KingsX said:

Everton fan (?) observing from a distance ... simple perspective which eludes most of us riding the roller coaster.

 

 

He might have a point but Everton spent major money for several years, wasted most of it, posted mega losses and haven't had a single FFP sanction. 

 

Spurs did it best by making what was a big 5 a big 6 before building a new stadium or spending big money.

 

We missed the boat with those two 5th place finishes. When Covid hit we were going to finish top 4, since then we had the double whammy of missing out and the hit the owners have took from the pandemic.

Edited 4 September 2022 by gazzaa2

[turlo]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

A loan... A LOAN. Loans have to be repaid.

 

And now look where we are. Skint.

 

It's easy to throw riches around in times of bountifulness. 

they wrote the earlier loans off (approx 150 mills worth) and they more recent ones are payable on demand which we may never pay back. 

[Freeman's Wharfer]

43 minutes ago, LestaAl said:

We really need to see the details in the full set of numbers.

-non cash write offs could be significant 

- financial fair play rules may now be the limit on future player transfers  in and out.

cash balance is king but loans in the medium term still have to be repaid.

king power is a separate business and their finances are only an issue if funds are needed to move between them and the club which  I believe has not been the case for several years.

Refreshing to read a logical and reasoned perspective rather than the usual “Top’s broke cos of Covid innit and that’s why we ain’t signed anyone”.

 

King Power losing money is only an issue if they’re pumping money in that isn’t in the form of interest payable loans (they aren’t) or if it means they decide to sell the club to focus on their core business (probably not a bad thing now given the club’s profile and the type of investor we’d attract).

[Guest Kopfkino]

48 minutes ago, FoxFossil said:

Any accountants out there? This doesn't add up. Are the KP loans to the club, for training centre, showing in a single year's figures? Lots and lots of questions. Might all be 'normal accounting practice.'

It’s pretty simple.

 

Take the accounts to May 2019, the last set of non-Covid accounts ( Covid and accounting policies makes it harder to read). It also has the benefit of us finishing 9th compared to 8th last

 

Look at the 20.2m pre-tax loss. Now take out the 58.3m profit on disposal of player registrations and you have almost 80m in losses.

 

Turnover will be higher with European football, hopefully more from sponsorship with FBS.

But add in the extra costs from higher spending on wages, higher amortisation charge, higher interest payable, training ground costs more to operate 

 

As I said earlier in the thread, I don’t see it quite being a 120m loss (unless there’s some exceptional costs or write-downs) - that the assumptions aren’t shared means we don’t know how theyve come to that (remembering this is external analysis rather than actual figures) -but I think Percy has said 90m which I think fits more closely but we shall see

 

Edited 4 September 2022 by Kopfkino

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, dmayne7 said:

For a club with owners in the commercial/retail world, that aspect of their ownership has been dire. PL win should have opened up millions of new fans globally and lots more commercial deals. Especially now we've had the FA cup win, back to back 5th places finishes etc.

It’s Leicester, it’s a bit like when Blackburn won the league! 15 minutes of fame and all that. If they’d bought Chelsea or Arsenal things might have been different for them. 

[fox in the sox]

27 minutes ago, Line-X said:

The King Power business sustained huge losses during Covid, but that does not mean it is financially in trouble, far less an 'Empire about to sink'.

 

The owners have temporarily pulled the purse strings for sure, but no question, they have a long term commitment to the club. As they have consistently said - "To continue competing in the Premier League requires a disciplined, sustainable and innovative business model"

 

At a cost of £100m, they built a training ground which arguably rivals any other club facility in world football. That was money which could have been spent on the squad, but the vision has always been building something more lasting, a foundation and something which will help attract world-class signings in the future and help further develop the home-grown talent and an Academy that has served us so well in the past. They have not detracted from their plans to build the hotel complex, the events and entertainment venue, and stadium expansion and they resisted the sale of Tielemans, Maddison and Fofana whilst offering Vardy a new contract and negotiated strongly to keep Kasper. We currently, without the drain of European competition - (injuries aside) - have a squad capable of finishing mid table. 

 

The miscalculation appears to have been that to "continue competing in the Premier League" with a stagnating squad requires an astute strategist, and an innovative and clever manager. There are others, with the same resources at their disposal, that would have come away from the Brentford, Saints and United encounters with three points - notwithstanding some of the errors and poor player performances. I'd argue strongly that all those games were eminently winnable and Chelsea too, where we should at the very least ground out a draw. We didn't due to the wrong selections, bewildering tactics and substitutions. Were it not for that, we would be on at least ten points and sitting where Brentford are right now. Not to say that Brendan doesn't have problems - in particular the erratic Ward, (who has at least shown some occasional signs of potential). The frustration being, that many of these problems are of his own making. He seems to consistently ignore our strengths and play to or introduce our weaknesses, which is precisely why we have gone from 'fearless' to 'fragile'. 

 

The test of the owners resolve now is to relieve him of his position and find someone that can get us out of this morass. A solution is not forthcoming. Most of the suggestions on this forum have been either grossly unrealistic, fanciful or frankly, ridiculous. Right now, it's likely to be an unglamorous but pragmatic appointment. You know where I'm going with this...

To be fair to Rodgers he has lost a very good goalkeeper who has been replaced by a ‘number 2’, a 70 million defender who has been replaced by a 15 million defender and a right winger who has not been replaced. We have definitely lost some quality but that doesn’t excuse current performances.

[Guest StevieLynex]

2 hours ago, Gravel said:

We've blown it all on clappers FFS.

And giving Filbert Fox a ten year contract 

[SpacedX]

22 minutes ago, fox in the sox said:

To be fair to Rodgers he has lost a very good goalkeeper who has been replaced by a ‘number 2’, a 70 million defender who has been replaced by a 15 million defender and a right winger who has not been replaced. We have definitely lost some quality but that doesn’t excuse current performances.

The problem on the right has existed since Mahrez left. I think Brendan clearly wanted to keep Lookman but as an inverted winger, he was always more convincing on the left. Versatile player though. Regarding Fofana, yeah, it's unfortunate, but he wasn't available for most of last season. Playing a DM in preference to a CB irrespective of how out of form he may be is unfathomable.

 

The situation with Ward was largely what I was referring to. 

 

It's not ideal, but like I said, there are managers out there that would rub their hands with glee at the resources Brendan has and certainly the money that was available to him...not to mention his renegotiated contract following the interest from Arsenal .

Edited 4 September 2022 by Line-X

[st albans fox]

28 minutes ago, StevieLynex said:

And giving Filbert Fox a ten year contract 

That’s another story …….

[jayfox26]

It's a bit of a mis leading article as it seems to try and suggest we've lost this amount even including the money we got for Fofana which isn't true. £70m for Fofana plus however much we paid to St Etienne plus what we paid for Faes, then deduct that from the £119m and that would be more realistic. Feel like the media really have it in for us at the moment and will spin any story to make us look bad. 

[gazzaa2]

1 hour ago, fox in the sox said:

To be fair to Rodgers he has lost a very good goalkeeper who has been replaced by a ‘number 2’, a 70 million defender who has been replaced by a 15 million defender and a right winger who has not been replaced. We have definitely lost some quality but that doesn’t excuse current performances.

The worst thing is his attitude. He hasn't had the window he wanted but it's his job to lift the squad. Instead his defeatism has just demoralised the players and club further.

 

Plenty of clubs have had underwhelming transfer windows and gone on to have good seasons.

[fox in the sox]

5 minutes ago, gazzaa2 said:

The worst thing is his attitude. He hasn't had the window he wanted but it's his job to lift the squad. Instead his defeatism has just demoralised the players and club further.

 

Plenty of clubs have had underwhelming transfer windows and gone on to have good seasons.

Agree that his attitude has been poor and many of his comments have been confused. He has suggested quite a few players have not been training well or doing their job in matches yet today he said that we must all stick together and stay positive to get out of it.

[iancognito]

1 hour ago, StonyFox said:

Is this not due to the £100m on the training ground, and not selling any playing assets last summer, and the next financial report will show a much smaller loss? or am I over simplifying things?

 

 

Nail on head.

It highlights even more the gamble that Top referred to about not selling a big name player last summer. Imagine if we sold Tielemans for that 35-40m fee. Suddenly it's 65-70m losses and in line with where most clubs were. I'm not even sure that Seagrave is that much to blame, it's just a convenient target for the people who are still claiming its somehow responsible for our loss of form

[Mike1983]

8 minutes ago, iancognito said:

Nail on head.

It highlights even more the gamble that Top referred to about not selling a big name player last summer. Imagine if we sold Tielemans for that 35-40m fee. Suddenly it's 65-70m losses and in line with where most clubs were. I'm not even sure that Seagrave is that much to blame, it's just a convenient target for the people who are still claiming its somehow responsible for our loss of form

Loss of form? That’s putting it mildly. We’re dogsh*te now m8.

[Beechey]

Wow, that’s grim. Estimates I’d heard were £90m which was already extremely bad.

[Larry_LCFC]

Scrap this pointless stadium expansion, music arena and all the other crap that is proposed and focus on actually sorting the team out. No point adding another 10000 seats for the Championship is there.

[Buggsteam]

How have we got ourselves in such a financial mess. 
Surely the likes of Wheelan need to be held accountable. 
Over spent on a fancy new training ground which has helped make the team better. 
How can they possibly think to expand the stadium and surrounding areas if we are a financial mess. 
Top come out and said our finances was good but can’t be if we’ve made that much of a loss. 
 

No wonder they haven’t sacked Rodgers as they can’t afford to but we will go bust if we go down. 

[iancognito]

4 minutes ago, Buggsteam said:

How have we got ourselves in such a financial mess. 
Surely the likes of Wheelan need to be held accountable. 
Over spent on a fancy new training ground which has helped make the team better. 
How can they possibly think to expand the stadium and surrounding areas if we are a financial mess. 
Top come out and said our finances was good but can’t be if we’ve made that much of a loss. 
 

No wonder they haven’t sacked Rodgers as they can’t afford to but we will go bust if we go down. 

Sell Tielemans last summer and the losses are 65-70m. Still not great but much closer in line with the rest of the league.

 

The stadium expansion has taken two years to plan and is key to them putting King Power's name out there. Right now the next generation of fans can't get near getting to see the team because we've been at 98% capacity for 7 years.

 

Relegation isn't in their plans which is why Rodgers will be gone by October if this shitshow continues.

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, gazzaa2 said:

 

He might have a point but Everton spent major money for several years, wasted most of it, posted mega losses and haven't had a single FFP sanction. 

 

Spurs did it best by making what was a big 5 a big 6 before building a new stadium or spending big money.

 

We missed the boat with those two 5th place finishes. When Covid hit we were going to finish top 4, since then we had the double whammy of missing out and the hit the owners have took from the pandemic.

Everton and Spurs have larger capacity stadiums though. That gives a bit more room, sadly 

[splinterdream]

4 hours ago, Jock's Hill said:

Maybe our selling of one big asset each summer window was the right way to go. Did we overestimate ourselves.

It seemed great for us as a club at the time but maybe that is our level in terms of financial continuity.

No, that model was never going to work long term, just looks like we caved in with contract negotiations, Rodger’s contract included.  I wonder what we’ve offered Vardy in his new contract, was it the same or improved on his current contract? As much as I love him, it was silly if it was, especially where we are.