Will Alves

[Suzie the Fox]

12 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Rob is very clever.

 

 

 

In what way is he clever? 

[Tom12345]

Gutted for Alves. One of the most exciting young players I have been waiting for to come into the senior team. Now who knows.

[st albans fox]

5 hours ago, Suzie the Fox said:

In what way is he clever? 

In his whataboutery dreamworld ………

[Foxxed]

At the absolute least we need to go to the FA over this.

 

I don't care if they say there's nothing they can do. We must show we're pulling out all the stops for our players.

[woznotwos]

We should be pressing charges for assault, he needs to go down for that!

[TWF]

Not sure if Wolves are the sort of club to care? I hope they are. If so they will certainly kick this lad out, he'll never be a footballer anyway and they can at least be seen to do their bit. I would like to see Leicester pursue legal action too, IF it is an option.

[ithuriel]

Just seen it on my PC in the news feed on Give me sport, this story is certainly doing the rounds.

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

I have to say I didn't appreciate the horror of it first up. But the wolves lad almost approaches him with a swagger and his leg in the cocked position. In rugby they talk about pre- meditation and mitigation. This was 100% pre meditated and there is 100% NO mitigation. Awful 

[sm1]

2 hours ago, Marshall Cockney Fox said:

I have to say I didn't appreciate the horror of it first up. But the wolves lad almost approaches him with a swagger and his leg in the cocked position. In rugby they talk about pre- meditation and mitigation. This was 100% pre meditated and there is 100% NO mitigation. Awful 

Absolutely right, this isn't a missed tackle, it's a premeditated attempt to hurt a player, possibly end his career. Disgraceful.

[TJB-fox]

Looks like caden’s father popped back at Maddison on twitter but tweets were deleted so can’t see, anyone screenshot?

[st albans fox]

3 hours ago, sm1 said:

Absolutely right, this isn't a missed tackle, it's a premeditated attempt to hurt a player, possibly end his career. Disgraceful.

im sure that there is no intent to end alves’ career. The kid surely wouldn’t even think in those terms. He just wanted to hurt him and had no care about the consequences because he is probably incapable of thinking in those terms.   I’m sure he now realises the magnitude of his actions but it’s way too late. This will have gone around the youth game and I doubt you’ll see a challenge like that for the foreseeable at academy level - will’s injury should prevent anyone else being assaulted like this for a considerable time but sadly it won’t help him. 

[KFS]

4 hours ago, TJB-fox said:

Looks like caden’s father popped back at Maddison on twitter but tweets were deleted so can’t see, anyone screenshot?

Just went looking on Twitter and nothing. Just a load of Wolves fans tweeting things like this. What a scummy fan base?

 

 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Edited. 

Edited 26 December 2022 by Arriba Los Zorros
Silly post

[iancognito]

Only just seen the challenge. It can't even be called a tackle. Looks like Keane on Haaland all over again.

 

It's one of those where the player should be banned for the length of the injury. If Alves loses 9 months of his career so should that talentless thug. It's a shame it's in the youth cup because if that had been in the Prem, it would have been looked at by the FA. Gets worse every time you see it.

[Dan]

On 24/12/2022 at 21:44, dmayne7 said:

Tackle?! Never had a yellow?! What a load of bollocks. If Wolves don't suspend him, that's embarrassing. 

 

And some of this crap about abusing a 16 year old; why does he deserve any protection from that when he's put another lads career at risk with such a blatant act of violence. No way.

Yep. Play silly games win silly prizes. I hope he's feeling intimidated.

[Aus Fox]

Interesting when people talk about legal action. This is from the Netherlands, and this tackle got the aggressor a 6 month suspended prison sentence.

It would be fascinating to see a case where by a player in this country is convicted of causing serious injury. 
If as others has mentioned, the player admitted in the aftermath of the incident he did it on purpose and wanted to cause injury, I believe there could be a case for criminal prosecution if Will Alves chose to go down that route.

What needs to be defined is the difference between a mistimed or bad tackle within the game, your usual red card and three game ban bad tackle and an in game assault - which if he intended to hurt the player that’s what this is.

Duncan Ferguson is the highest profile case in Britain, but being a headbutt is very different to a tackle.

 

[Manini]

On 25/12/2022 at 01:36, Leeds Fox said:

Beat a Scouse team on Sunday (ropey do by all accounts). Sunday football can be either hell or be Semi Pro players playing together for an extra £50. 

The former in my experience  better timings than Saturdays though. If Saturdays kicked off at 11 like Sundays do me and my mates would do that deffo. 2pm on a Saturday is a joke. 

[Bordersfox]

6 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

Interesting when people talk about legal action. This is from the Netherlands, and this tackle got the aggressor a 6 month suspended prison sentence.

It would be fascinating to see a case where by a player in this country is convicted of causing serious injury. 
If as others has mentioned, the player admitted in the aftermath of the incident he did it on purpose and wanted to cause injury, I believe there could be a case for criminal prosecution if Will Alves chose to go down that route.

What needs to be defined is the difference between a mistimed or bad tackle within the game, your usual red card and three game ban bad tackle and an in game assault - which if he intended to hurt the player that’s what this is.

Duncan Ferguson is the highest profile case in Britain, but being a headbutt is very different to a tackle.

 

Not to be pedantic (he said before being pedantic) Alves view of the matter is largely irrelevant to any criminal action that might be taken.  That is a matter for the police and the CPS who will decide whether there is a good chance of a successful prosecution under the relevant legislation, whether it is in the public interest to prosecute and so forth.

 

If the matter came to their attention (you'd be surprised if it hadn't now) and if they decided to pursue given the evidence is on film even if Alves objected that would be no barrier to prosecution.  R v Voice.  

 

And again, to repeat myself, intention is not always required even in criminal matters.  Recklessness is enough to convict under some legislation relating to physical assault.

 

Civil litigation is, of course, entirely different and would be the responsibility of the player/club and would result in financial compensation only being awarded.  

[gerblod]

1 hour ago, Bordersfox said:

Not to be pedantic (he said before being pedantic) Alves view of the matter is largely irrelevant to any criminal action that might be taken.  That is a matter for the police and the CPS who will decide whether there is a good chance of a successful prosecution under the relevant legislation, whether it is in the public interest to prosecute and so forth.

 

If the matter came to their attention (you'd be surprised if it hadn't now) and if they decided to pursue given the evidence is on film even if Alves objected that would be no barrier to prosecution.  R v Voice.  

 

And again, to repeat myself, intention is not always required even in criminal matters.  Recklessness is enough to convict under some legislation relating to physical assault.

 

Civil litigation is, of course, entirely different and would be the responsibility of the player/club and would result in financial compensation only being awarded.  

In my experience (and please do be pedantic if I'm incorrect) the Police, in whatever administrative area they represent, would only get involved in football issues when a law was broken outside of the field of play (given no extraordinary situation involving the players and officials).

Once a player gets arrested for some form of assault, then the floodgates open in all sports - every foul contact will be open to legal interpretation - given the severity of the outcome and the desire of the player to exact reparation. The clubs don't want this, the FA would abhor it, the Police don't want it and the players tend to take it as the risks inherent in the game. The lawyers would love it! The few who do suffer as a result could/should pursue civil action but that's only possible for those with the funds to gamble on success in court.

But, with intent, such foul play warrants suspension sine die, followed by an assessment of the perpetrator's suitability to continue in the sport.

Schumacher's unrepented assault on Battiston - for which he wasn't even carded - is the benchmark in this. It was a thuggish act, not involving the ball, seen by millions worldwide, which left Battiston in a coma. No action was taken against him.

That said, the FA should 'man up' and get involved on the basis of making 'mirror' judgements akin to what would happen in a criminal court. The FA talks a lot about incidents which bring the game into disrepute, like when Cantona, with some justification (I felt) booted a fan who was abusing him, but assault on the pitch they appear to guage differently.

Edited 26 December 2022 by gerblod
Removal of a superfluous word.

[Bordersfox]

9 minutes ago, gerblod said:

In my experience (and please do be pedantic if I'm incorrect) the Police, in whatever administrative area they represent, would only get involved in football issues when a law was broken outside of the field of play (given no extraordinary situation involving the players and officials).

Once a player gets arrested for some form of assault, then the floodgates open in all sports - every foul contact will be open to legal interpretation - given the severity of the outcome and the desire of the player to exact reparation. The clubs don't want this, the FA would abhor it, the Police don't want it and the players tend to take it as the risks inherent in the game. The lawyers would love it! The few who do suffer as a result could/should pursue civil action but that's only possible for those with the funds to gamble on success in court.

But, with intent, such foul play warrants suspension sine die, followed by an assessment of the perpetrator's suitability to continue in the sport.

Schumacher's unrepented assault on Battiston - for which he wasn't even carded - is the benchmark in this. It was a thuggish act, not involving the ball, seen by millions worldwide, which left Battiston in a coma. No action was taken against him.

That said, the FA should 'man up' and get involved on the basis of making 'mirror' judgements akin to what would happen in a criminal court. The FA talks a lot about incidents which bring the game into disrepute, like when Cantona, with some justification (I felt) booted a fan who was abusing him, but assault on the pitch they appear to guage differently.

I have no idea what the CPS and police use as a benchmark for these sort of offences to be honest but what you say seems sensible.  My point was merely that Alves view on it ain't relevent, from a criminal prosecutions point of view.

 

Possibly in extraordinary circumstances, for example where a player subsequently admits an act was committed on purpose to injure another, they might get involved.  As with anything there is a political element and if pressure is applied in the media or by the FA, by clubs or whatever there is a greater likelihood that criminal action might be considered.  But that's just purely conjecture without knowing what debates are being had within the CPS.  

 

In this situation I do feel something more needs to be done, but perhaps within the game by the F.A. is more appropriate as you say.  

 

In terms of lawyers, whilst defence solicitors and barristers might be licking their lips if such a case were brought the overworked bods in the CPS I am sure would rather not have any more cases added to their already ridiculous workloads.  Let us not lump one breed of lawyers in with another. Ah it feels good to be pedantic on boxing day doesn't it 🤣

[Leeds Fox]

2 hours ago, Manini said:

The former in my experience  better timings than Saturdays though. If Saturdays kicked off at 11 like Sundays do me and my mates would do that deffo. 2pm on a Saturday is a joke. 

Yeah, it takes you’re whole day doesn’t it, for little reward (usually a £10 fine at best) 😂

 

Personally, sacrificing my Saturday night for a game on Sunday is the worst option. 

[taupe]

The police have enough not to do already without getting involved in this. Further, I think, as mentioned above, players do tend to take such injuries as part-and-parcel, rightly or wrongly, and whilst there might be a civil action open to Alves I very much doubt he'd pursue it. As much as anything else, who wants to be the first player to take that path? 

 

I feel the only official redress would probably need to come from Wolves themselves (at least in the first instance) - and I really don't see that happening. Nope, what's-his-name will pretty much walk... which is sadly probably more than can be said for Will Alves at the moment. We just cross our fingers that he heals well and can go on to have a long and successful career. 

[st albans fox]

Anyone know who the most well known 16 y o academy defender is in England ?

 

amazing isn’t it ….

[Shane]

He should have been in the first team ahead of Praet and Perez

[foxinsocks]

why haven't the police been called? - this was an assault.