Kdh

[hackneyfox]

Kellogg’s 

[FoxyJim1987]

32 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Mange Toute 

Let's hope we are saying bonjour to the championship next May.

[weller54]

5 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

Let's hope we are saying bonjour to the championship next May.

Oui

[FoxyLeon]

9 hours ago, lcfc043 said:

@FoxyLeon wants to play him as a number 10 

 

For some reason people think number 10's have to be technical players who can't run around the pitch, like Maddison. Which is odd because Shinji Okazaki was a number 10, who won a Premier League title and was a pivotal player in that side. 

 

I think Maddison/Tielemans compared to Okazaki/Kante shows just how overrated players are that are slightly better on the ball. The willingness to harass, press and win the ball back by both Okazaki and Kante led to us being able to compete in games. I think Maddison and Tielemans would have to contribute about 4 goals between them every week to make up for the amount of chances they give away by not being able to compete with the opposition off the ball. 

 

It's similar with Castagne vs Simpson. The Belgian may get you two goals a season, but he will also give up a minimum of 1-2 chances a game more compared to Simpson, which means that extra offensive output is a net negative. You don't see Brighton/Brentford have a number 8/10 that produces the same number of goal contributions as Maddison, but you also don't see them carry midfielders who give away as many chances as he does by not offering something off the ball. It's not surprising to see Caicedo/Rice being big targets this Summer, and neither being goalscorers. We have a game now where even strikers can't 'Just score goals', so there's no way that midfielders can get away with that. Let's face it, for the better part of 2 years all Tielemans has offered is the chance for a World Class strike, his ability to control a midfield is pretty non existent because he's not good enough technically, nor can he replace those technical deficiencies with physical quality, like Kante. 

 

I've mentioned before, but Klopp has on at least two occasions gone up to KDH after we've played and singled him out. There's no doubt in my mind that if Klopp was forced to take one of KDH/Maddison/Tielemans then he would take KDH. He's coachable, he has an engine and he's the only player that knows how to press. I could see Klopp doing to him what he did with Robertson. 

[Bert]

54 minutes ago, FoxyLeon said:

 

For some reason people think number 10's have to be technical players who can't run around the pitch, like Maddison. Which is odd because Shinji Okazaki was a number 10, who won a Premier League title and was a pivotal player in that side. 

 

I think Maddison/Tielemans compared to Okazaki/Kante shows just how overrated players are that are slightly better on the ball. The willingness to harass, press and win the ball back by both Okazaki and Kante led to us being able to compete in games. I think Maddison and Tielemans would have to contribute about 4 goals between them every week to make up for the amount of chances they give away by not being able to compete with the opposition off the ball. 

 

It's similar with Castagne vs Simpson. The Belgian may get you two goals a season, but he will also give up a minimum of 1-2 chances a game more compared to Simpson, which means that extra offensive output is a net negative. You don't see Brighton/Brentford have a number 8/10 that produces the same number of goal contributions as Maddison, but you also don't see them carry midfielders who give away as many chances as he does by not offering something off the ball. It's not surprising to see Caicedo/Rice being big targets this Summer, and neither being goalscorers. We have a game now where even strikers can't 'Just score goals', so there's no way that midfielders can get away with that. Let's face it, for the better part of 2 years all Tielemans has offered is the chance for a World Class strike, his ability to control a midfield is pretty non existent because he's not good enough technically, nor can he replace those technical deficiencies with physical quality, like Kante. 

 

I've mentioned before, but Klopp has on at least two occasions gone up to KDH after we've played and singled him out. There's no doubt in my mind that if Klopp was forced to take one of KDH/Maddison/Tielemans then he would take KDH. He's coachable, he has an engine and he's the only player that knows how to press. I could see Klopp doing to him what he did with Robertson. 

He fits the Klopp mantra. High energy, high pressing. Regarding him at 10, he played there a few times last season. 

[lcfc043]

1 hour ago, FoxyLeon said:

 

For some reason people think number 10's have to be technical players who can't run around the pitch, like Maddison. Which is odd because Shinji Okazaki was a number 10, who won a Premier League title and was a pivotal player in that side. 

 

I think Maddison/Tielemans compared to Okazaki/Kante shows just how overrated players are that are slightly better on the ball. The willingness to harass, press and win the ball back by both Okazaki and Kante led to us being able to compete in games. I think Maddison and Tielemans would have to contribute about 4 goals between them every week to make up for the amount of chances they give away by not being able to compete with the opposition off the ball. 

 

It's similar with Castagne vs Simpson. The Belgian may get you two goals a season, but he will also give up a minimum of 1-2 chances a game more compared to Simpson, which means that extra offensive output is a net negative. You don't see Brighton/Brentford have a number 8/10 that produces the same number of goal contributions as Maddison, but you also don't see them carry midfielders who give away as many chances as he does by not offering something off the ball. It's not surprising to see Caicedo/Rice being big targets this Summer, and neither being goalscorers. We have a game now where even strikers can't 'Just score goals', so there's no way that midfielders can get away with that. Let's face it, for the better part of 2 years all Tielemans has offered is the chance for a World Class strike, his ability to control a midfield is pretty non existent because he's not good enough technically, nor can he replace those technical deficiencies with physical quality, like Kante. 

 

I've mentioned before, but Klopp has on at least two occasions gone up to KDH after we've played and singled him out. There's no doubt in my mind that if Klopp was forced to take one of KDH/Maddison/Tielemans then he would take KDH. He's coachable, he has an engine and he's the only player that knows how to press. I could see Klopp doing to him what he did with Robertson. 

Wow! You rate him very highly indeed. 
 

He’s got 4 years left on his contract, so with the figures mooted for Barnes and Maddison (and you rate KDH higher as a player), we must be close to a club record fee to sell him? 

[Bluearmyfox28]

16 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

KDH at this level will be a weapon, I'd not be surprised to see him improve in the process and then be more rounded as a player if we do return to the PL in the next 2 seasons.

I’m hoping it gives him more confidence in front of goal after getting a few goals under his belt, which I fully expect him to do.

[Bluearmyfox28]

10 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

If I see anyone suggesting cairney will be good but also suggesting we should sell kdh you get an instant block. 

 

Our fans are just desperate to hound our own out. KDH would be first on the team sheet for me in the championship. Absolutely bossed it the last time he was here 

I would argue he’s got better since then as well.

[brookfox]

KDH is a funny one. He’s got some strengths to his game but he’s also got some glaring weaknesses. I’m pleased when he’s in the team but I’m not disappointed when he’s not. He’ll be a very good player in the Championship but if someone came in with a decent fee I’d be ok to sell and reinvest. Feels like a win:win whatever happens with him.

[Merchant_Banker]

19 minutes ago, brookfox said:

KDH is a funny one. He’s got some strengths to his game but he’s also got some glaring weaknesses. I’m pleased when he’s in the team but I’m not disappointed when he’s not. He’ll be a very good player in the Championship but if someone came in with a decent fee I’d be ok to sell and reinvest. Feels like a win:win whatever happens with him.

There was an article quoting a player who Maresca trained that said he focussed on improving each players weaknesses. May be this is what KDH needs.

[jv1]

12 hours ago, FoxyLeon said:

 

For some reason people think number 10's have to be technical players who can't run around the pitch, like Maddison. Which is odd because Shinji Okazaki was a number 10, who won a Premier League title and was a pivotal player in that side. 

 

I think Maddison/Tielemans compared to Okazaki/Kante shows just how overrated players are that are slightly better on the ball. The willingness to harass, press and win the ball back by both Okazaki and Kante led to us being able to compete in games. I think Maddison and Tielemans would have to contribute about 4 goals between them every week to make up for the amount of chances they give away by not being able to compete with the opposition off the ball. 

 

It's similar with Castagne vs Simpson. The Belgian may get you two goals a season, but he will also give up a minimum of 1-2 chances a game more compared to Simpson, which means that extra offensive output is a net negative. You don't see Brighton/Brentford have a number 8/10 that produces the same number of goal contributions as Maddison, but you also don't see them carry midfielders who give away as many chances as he does by not offering something off the ball. It's not surprising to see Caicedo/Rice being big targets this Summer, and neither being goalscorers. We have a game now where even strikers can't 'Just score goals', so there's no way that midfielders can get away with that. Let's face it, for the better part of 2 years all Tielemans has offered is the chance for a World Class strike, his ability to control a midfield is pretty non existent because he's not good enough technically, nor can he replace those technical deficiencies with physical quality, like Kante. 

 

I've mentioned before, but Klopp has on at least two occasions gone up to KDH after we've played and singled him out. There's no doubt in my mind that if Klopp was forced to take one of KDH/Maddison/Tielemans then he would take KDH. He's coachable, he has an engine and he's the only player that knows how to press. I could see Klopp doing to him what he did with Robertson. 

Good post - not sure about the last bit as think they would still have Maddison above kdh however I am 💯 with you that kdh is without any shadow of a doubt a number 10 - not a creative 10 but a pressing breaking the lines number 10 - every single one of his best games and most of ours over the last 2 seasons have come when he has played as the 3rd midfielder higher up behind a striker pressing in that left channel - what have people been watching if they haven’t saw this - every time we have tried to play him centre mid or deeper in a 2 he has been bang average - it’s not his position- not in the slightest - he doesn’t have that Maddison pass but what he does do is bring a ridiculous amount of energy in the final 3rd being in the right spaces and winning the ball back high up the pitch - all of his best games have been doing this - and we look competitive when he does - Maddison is pretty on the eye but an absolute passenger when it comes to what kdh does - couldn’t get 2 different players - doesn’t mean kdhs best position isn’t 10 as it definitely is but not a free role prance around 10 - a work like,  pressing , harrying 10 - and I very much like him and us when he plays there 

[ARTY_FOX]

I hope we sell him tbh 

[BenTheFox]

Probably the only central midfielder that we have at the club who can actually run. I think we should keep him. He'll be an asset in the championship. 

[Bergen fox]

Championship is his level. 

[BenTheFox]

13 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

Probably the only central midfielder that we have at the club who can actually run. I think we should keep him. He'll be an asset in the championship. 

Having mobility in midfield is crucial in the modern game. Our lack of it either in the form of a lack of athleticism or a lack of effort last season was one of our big issues, especially when we were playing Tielemans and Soumare in midfield. 

[themightyfin]

On 18/06/2023 at 11:07, GingerrrFox said:

If his previous teams are anything to go by, he likes to have a deep lying playmaker flanked by 2 out and out runners in a 4-3-3.
 

Braybrooke as the playmaker

KDH on one side and then Hamza/new CM looks logical to me. 

Braybrooke is not a Playmaker he's a defensive mid.

And he's injured. 

[mozartfox]

Maybe Enzo can coach Vesty into taking  a similar role as ManCity did with John Stones?  A cultured former CB come line breaker….

[GingerrrFox]

1 hour ago, themightyfin said:

Braybrooke is not a Playmaker he's a defensive mid.

And he's injured. 

Do you understand the term “deep lying playmaker”? Or did that part of my comment completely bypass you? He dictates tempo and build attacks from deep. Was Pirlo a defensive midfielder? Or what about Okazaki? Was he a playmaker for us because he played CAM? The position a player plays tells you nothing, it’s the role within the system they are asked to play that is everything. 

Edited 19 June 2023 by GingerrrFox

[themightyfin]

39 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

Do you understand the term “deep lying playmaker”? Or did that part of my comment completely bypass you? He dictates tempo and build attacks from deep. Was Pirlo a defensive midfielder? Or what about Okazaki? Was he a playmaker for us because he played CAM? The position a player plays tells you nothing, it’s the role within the system they are asked to play that is everything. 

By your reckoning then we can have Ward as a playmaker from the bench. The position is nothing in yoir own words. We can just make it up to suit your own arguments as we go along. 

[GingerrrFox]

22 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

By your reckoning then we can have Ward as a playmaker from the bench. The position is nothing in yoir own words. We can just make it up to suit your own arguments as we go along. 

Hang on let me get this right, so in your eyes, Sammy B and Wilfred Ndidi are both defensive midfielders and play the position in exactly the same way?

[lcfc sheff]

2 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

Hang on let me get this right, so in your eyes, Sammy B and Wilfred Ndidi are both defensive midfielders and play the position in exactly the same way?

ignore him, he chooses to argue with any comment he sees.

[Stopharage]

I think he’ll be our POTY next year. 

[Bluearmyfox28]

3 hours ago, themightyfin said:

By your reckoning then we can have Ward as a playmaker from the bench. The position is nothing in yoir own words. We can just make it up to suit your own arguments as we go along. 

Fin please explain what you get out of trying to prove your right and that you have a better understanding of the original posters point? Come across like a child saying your wrong and I’m right.

 

You literally tried it with me last week.

[Bluearmyfox28]

3 hours ago, GingerrrFox said:

Hang on let me get this right, so in your eyes, Sammy B and Wilfred Ndidi are both defensive midfielders and play the position in exactly the same way?

Or even better Youri and Wilfred are the same player as we played Youri as the DLP on more than a few occasions. 

[Aleksz]

11 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Fin please explain what you get out of trying to prove your right and that you have a better understanding of the original posters point? Come across like a child saying your wrong and I’m right.

 

You literally tried it with me last week.

Tries it with everyone. Go through his posts he’s just starting an argument with anyone and everyone.