The Enzo Thread

[trugerkem]

4 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

He’s even sounding more like Rodgers. Going on about identity being more important than winning. Fvck identity. What does that even mean?? Start winning again. 

I have never heard such crap in my life… when I started supporting Leicester I wanted them to win things 50 years later I still want that …. Hands up if you want identity over trophies 

[l444ry]

5 minutes ago, trugerkem said:

I have never heard such crap in my life… when I started supporting Leicester I wanted them to win things 50 years later I still want that …. Hands up if you want identity over trophies 

Hard to disagree. Identity seems to mean keeping the same system and same style whether playing Accrington Stanley or Arsenal. Disappointed that Enzo thought that a back four of Hamza, Faes, Vestergaard and Doyle, playing a high line, was ever going to be anything other than ridiculously exposed to pace. Even more disappointing is that it was pretty clear early on that Chelsea set out to isolate Vestergaard one to one and we seemed to do very little to address that either. Also, Faes and JJ might have done much better with their decision making, which ended with a sending off and a goal conceded, had they not been brainwashed into over playing in what turned out to be stupid situations.   

[Jonaldinho]

It's been said elsewhere but losing Ricardo has been such a massive blow. We have no one who can play that inverted right back role and it's probably the most integral to the formation. Without him, Winks is forced to be playmaker on his own, while Hamza doesn't know whether he's coming or going in that position. I am hopeful that with Ricardo and Ndidi back after the international break, performances will pick up. 

 

It's also worth noting that while we have blown a sizeable lead at the top, in any other normal season we'd still be most likely be several points clear of third, if not second too. 

[SuperMike]

System is no longer 'high risk, high reward' -  now the opposition have it sussed it has become  'high risk, almost no reward whatsoever'.

Needs changing.

[rugbyblue]

On 17/03/2024 at 13:41, Paninistickers said:

The tactics of not playing full backs - particularly when we have Ricky, JJ and another out on loan, is looking increasingly bizarre

 

I called it early season. Kept schtumm as you can't argue with results. But once the results dry up, it's all there to see

I'm not an Enzo basher either.....top for most of the season speaks for itself.... Even now in 2nd it's in our hands with the game in hand.

 

But I have to agree with the full back comment.  Yesterday showed it more than ever.  Almost everything Chelsea did was wide and exposed us over and over, especially first half 

[Paninistickers]

43 minutes ago, Jonaldinho said:

It's been said elsewhere but losing Ricardo has been such a massive blow. We have no one who can play that inverted right back role and it's probably the most integral to the formation. Without him, Winks is forced to be playmaker on his own, while Hamza doesn't know whether he's coming or going in that position. I am hopeful that with Ricardo and Ndidi back after the international break, performances will pick up. 

 

It's also worth noting that while we have blown a sizeable lead at the top, in any other normal season we'd still be most likely be several points clear of third, if not second too. 

Tbh, I don't think Ricky could've solved yesterday's defensive debacle either. 

 

In fact, for large parts this season up until about January, Ricky himself often looked overwhelmed by the job. I lost.coint how many times he got robbed in midfield early season. But his recent form has been marvelous, however yesterday the whole system was exposed. Not just individual talent 

[Tom12345]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

Vesty and Coady's duel/aerial stats are fairly poor for centre backs, especially Coady. May as well be pinging balls up to a scarecrow.

Souttar

[Tom12345]

39 minutes ago, SuperMike said:

System is no longer 'high risk, high reward' -  now the opposition have it sussed it has become  'high risk, almost no reward whatsoever'.

Needs changing.

Exactly. It used to be that we draw the opposition in and then break free to attack. Now whether they get sucked in or not they just need a back 4 or 5 to sit back and watch us pass backwards and ultimately lose the ball.

 

It is like crying wolf. You can only trick others so many times because they figure it out.  

Edited 18 March by Tom12345

[ConnFoxUS]

59 minutes ago, Jonaldinho said:

It's been said elsewhere but losing Ricardo has been such a massive blow. We have no one who can play that inverted right back role and it's probably the most integral to the formation. Without him, Winks is forced to be playmaker on his own, while Hamza doesn't know whether he's coming or going in that position. I am hopeful that with Ricardo and Ndidi back after the international break, performances will pick up. 

 

It's also worth noting that while we have blown a sizeable lead at the top, in any other normal season we'd still be most likely be several points clear of third, if not second too. 

It was also entirely predictable and thus should have been counted on and planned for. There was no way he was going to get through the rigorous campaign of a Championship season after the last 3 years he’s had. 

[Guppys Love Child]

11 minutes ago, SuperMike said:

System is no longer 'high risk, high reward' -  now the opposition have it sussed it has become  'high risk, almost no reward whatsoever'.

Needs changing.

I agree. 

 

However others are of an opinion  (as is their right) that missing Ricardo and Ndidi  + other 1st choice players, coupled with the fact the team is knackered and in a of a rest, something that the international break will give them are the major contributing factors to our current slump.

 

But be careful,  as he EnzoBall worshipers won't have it if anyone even questions the system, or even entertains the fact that we may just have been finally sussed by the other teams and that the system is in need of a tweak and a adjustment. 

 

Hopefully once we resume after the break we do get back to winning ways with a rested team containing the missing players seen as the vital components to the system working again, and no I'm not being sarcastic here, I want this to happen, I want to be winning again and not crapping myself with 10 mins to go. 

 

But by the same token if we carry on with no improvement,  I'd like my opinion that is also similarly shared by others who think it's the system that's the problem to be allowed to voice it and not be shot down,  also I'd like not being told that we can all have the pleasure of saying  " we told you so" and gloating if there's no improvement. I find that argument childish and its not the reason I post my opposite views. It's because I have an opinion.... That's all

[Paninistickers]

23 minutes ago, Guppys Love Child said:

I'd like my opinion that is also similarly shared by others who think it's the system that's the problem to be allowed to voice it

I think plenty had your suspicions about the system. But the excellent results made it nigh on impossible to present a counter argument.

 

I go all the way back to Bristol City, who we totally dominated. They were eon the ropes for 89 mins. Yet we were left defending a free kick on edge of box in the 96th minute as we'd refused to go for the jugular. 

 

He's not a good manager, and never will be, until he realises it's all about winning. Everything is about winning. (Or trying to)

[winteriscoming]

1 hour ago, Paninistickers said:

I think plenty had your suspicions about the system. But the excellent results made it nigh on impossible to present a counter argument.

 

I go all the way back to Bristol City, who we totally dominated. They were eon the ropes for 89 mins. Yet we were left defending a free kick on edge of box in the 96th minute as we'd refused to go for the jugular. 

 

He's not a good manager, and never will be, until he realises it's all about winning. Everything is about winning. (Or trying to)

Don’t forget identity. According to Enzo that’s more important than winning. 
Utter nonsense. Never have I thought about our identity after a match. 

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, Paninistickers said:

I think plenty had your suspicions about the system. But the excellent results made it nigh on impossible to present a counter argument.

 

I go all the way back to Bristol City, who we totally dominated. They were eon the ropes for 89 mins. Yet we were left defending a free kick on edge of box in the 96th minute as we'd refused to go for the jugular. 

 

He's not a good manager, and never will be, until he realises it's all about winning. Everything is about winning. (Or trying to)

Follow Man City then?  

[Guppys Love Child]

17 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I think plenty had your suspicions about the system. But the excellent results made it nigh on impossible to present a counter argument.

 

I go all the way back to Bristol City, who we totally dominated. They were eon the ropes for 89 mins. Yet we were left defending a free kick on edge of box in the 96th minute as we'd refused to go for the jugular. 

 

He's not a good manager, and never will be, until he realises it's all about winning. Everything is about winning. (Or trying to)

The job he's done with mess he was left by "he who must not be named" is brilliant, and I think at first EnzoBall was effective as our league position showed.  Only when the results and performances started to wain did suspicions and questioning of EnzoBall start to crop up by some.  I think he will be a good manager in the future. We have to remember he's relatively new to the management game and is still carving out an identity but I agree he does need to learn to adapt and achieve his main objective...to do what it takes to win games, and not worry about building his identity at the moment 

[Nod.E]

It's really bothering me that sceptics in here are patting themselves on the back now that we've had some poor results.

 

From where I'm stood, we're not playing anything like how we were when we were winning. Something has changed. Mentioned it before, but we appear to be pressing a lot higher and more frequently than we were. This is actually giving fans open, entertaining games. The issue is we keep coming out the wrong side of them.

 

If we were still playing the 'boring' football you lament, I don't think we'd be in this rather more perilous position.

 

Say what you like about yesterday - and there was a lot wrong with it - but it wasn't boring.

 

If anything, this recent run of form is proving you morons wrong. The advent of more entertaining football has resulted in poorer results.

Edited 18 March by Nod.E

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

It's really bothering me that sceptics in here are patting themselves on the back now that we've had some poor results.

 

From where I'm stood, we're not playing anything like how we were when we were winning. Something has changed. Mentioned it before, but we appear to be pressing a lot higher and more frequently than we were. This is actually giving fans open, entertaining games. The issue is we keep coming out the wrong side of them.

 

If we were still playing the 'boring' football you lament, I don't think we'd be in this rather more perilous position.

 

Say what you like about yesterday - and there was a lot wrong with it - but it wasn't boring.

 

If anything, this recent run of form is proving you morons wrong. The advent of more entertaining football has resulted in poorer results.

I kinda agree, except I never found us boring this season. I loved the more slow build that manipulated the opposition. Don't think we've been "found out" (which, incidentally, never happens - all teams are able to observe other team and react accordingly - by the end of a season everyone knows how everyone else plays.), I just honestly think we've tried to fix something that wasn't broke... largely at the behest of the fans.

[Nod.E]

1 minute ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I kinda agree, except I never found us boring this season. I loved the more slow build that manipulated the opposition. Don't think we've been "found out" (which, incidentally, never happens - all teams are able to observe other team and react accordingly - by the end of a season everyone knows how everyone else plays.), I just honestly think we've tried to fix something that wasn't broke... largely at the behest of the fans.

Wholeheartedly agree. 

 

I never found it boring either. Okay sometimes we didn't find or try passes that I'd have liked to have seen, and that was frustrating at times, but I understand that's a personnel issue. N'didi and KDH will never be that type of midfielder.

 

Our approach was considered, controlled and composed. 

 

The chaos we see now coincides perfectly with Enzo's tantrum following fan complaints.

 

If we fvck this up, our fans more than played their part in unravelling it for us.

[Vazman]

30 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Wholeheartedly agree. 

 

I never found it boring either. Okay sometimes we didn't find or try passes that I'd have liked to have seen, and that was frustrating at times, but I understand that's a personnel issue. N'didi and KDH will never be that type of midfielder.

 

Our approach was considered, controlled and composed. 

 

The chaos we see now coincides perfectly with Enzo's tantrum following fan complaints.

 

If we fvck this up, our fans more than played their part in unravelling it for us.

I agree with your post, to a degree, what I would say, some fairly poor finishing, has added to the isues, 2 recent examples Leeds away, and Borogh, had we put away those chances, in those matches we would be 6 points better off, with a game in hand.

[filbertway]

52 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

It's really bothering me that sceptics in here are patting themselves on the back now that we've had some poor results.

 

From where I'm stood, we're not playing anything like how we were when we were winning. Something has changed. Mentioned it before, but we appear to be pressing a lot higher and more frequently than we were. This is actually giving fans open, entertaining games. The issue is we keep coming out the wrong side of them.

 

If we were still playing the 'boring' football you lament, I don't think we'd be in this rather more perilous position.

 

Say what you like about yesterday - and there was a lot wrong with it - but it wasn't boring.

 

If anything, this recent run of form is proving you morons wrong. The advent of more entertaining football has resulted in poorer results.

Sunderland was well exciting! 

[Gamble92]

Listening to Guillem Balagué again tonight on Radio Leicester who as Enzo's friend seems to be acting as his spokesperson as well. 

 

Was an interesting listen but I wish I could see more of this genius philosophy he talks about actually working. When he starts saying he won't change his ways or personnel with someone like Vestegaard playing in a high line Vs Jackson - it correlates more with naivety and insanity than genius. It's done Kompany no favours this year either.

 

I won't accept the fact we've been top most the season as a vindication of philosophy either when anyone who's watched it will see it's been mainly down to overall quality. 

 

Where I do think it has worked is most home games where teams have sat back because purely on the basis of percentages they've had it much less and has less chance to score. But those games haven't won people over just because they've been so boring. 

 

I really like Enzo and want it to work but it's way too early to be talking him up like a genius in the way Guillem does because he hasn't done enough to warrant it.

[cityfanlee23]

On 17/03/2024 at 21:26, Jimmy said:

maybe so but he needs to come up with another plan for this situation, it will come up again and going to a back 5 doesn't work

Get out of here you route 1 merchant 
 

8 hours ago, m4DD0gg said:

If he isnt willing to change it or at least implement a plan B then we wont get promoted.

 

That in itself should be grounds for gross misconduct.

I have a gut feeling we will scrape up through the automatics, but if we fail it's very simple, Enzo has gambled quite literally the future of the club on his "system" and would be unforgivable. 14 points blown and still nothing changes. I think we have the quality to drag us through. 

[Dan LCFC]

I don't even massively mind that he has a way he believes in, if you are willing to just throw everything away at signs of adversity then what do you truly believe in? The issue more for me is is his way right for us? It's been very hard to measure this season because we came down into the league against the odds and even despite sales, the residue is still vastly superior to pretty much all of the league. It's been hard to measure if we're playing above the sum of our parts. I'm not really sure either way.

[filbertway]

9 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I don't even massively mind that he has a way he believes in, if you are willing to just throw everything away at signs of adversity then what do you truly believe in? The issue more for me is is his way right for us? It's been very hard to measure this season because we came down into the league against the odds and even despite sales, the residue is still vastly superior to pretty much all of the league. It's been hard to measure if we're playing above the sum of our parts. I'm not really sure either way.

I just don't really see how having no flexibility is seen as a positive to be honest. Adapting to take advantage of the opposition's weaknesses and negate their strengths seems like a positive to me. Being able to adapt tactics to suit your squad seems like a positive.

 

I can understand someone having a general philosophy they want to stick to, be it trying to outscore the opposition, or keep games tight. But being wed to one tactical set up just seems like a recipe for failure, it gives any manager worth their salt the very best opportunity to set up their team to beat the system as they know exactly what they're up against. 

 

If he's come out of that game happy with us having 1 shot on target while conceding an xG of over 4 then I'm genuinely perplexed at what his expectations are when playing his system.

 

[RonnieTodger]

11 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

Listening to Guillem Balagué again tonight on Radio Leicester who as Enzo's friend seems to be acting as his spokesperson as well. 

 

Was an interesting listen but I wish I could see more of this genius philosophy he talks about actually working. When he starts saying he won't change his ways or personnel with someone like Vestegaard playing in a high line Vs Jackson - it correlates more with naivety and insanity than genius. It's done Kompany no favours this year either.

 

I won't accept the fact we've been top most the season as a vindication of philosophy either when anyone who's watched it will see it's been mainly down to overall quality. 

 

Where I do think it has worked is most home games where teams have sat back because purely on the basis of percentages they've had it much less and has less chance to score. But those games haven't won people over just because they've been so boring. 

 

I really like Enzo and want it to work but it's way too early to be talking him up like a genius in the way Guillem does because he hasn't done enough to warrant it.

Yeah I found this bit irritating. Guillem said something along the lines of “you expect him to tell his players to forget everything they’ve done this season for this opponent?” 
 

Yes, we’re at Chelsea, not Rotherham. 

[Number 6]

24 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

Yeah I found this bit irritating. Guillem said something along the lines of “you expect him to tell his players to forget everything they’ve done this season for this opponent?” 
 

Yes, we’re at Chelsea, not Rotherham. 

It doesn't seem like too big an ask to plan for tweaks for certain scenarios.

 

So an option against fast strikers where we play a bit deeper and maybe the role of Ndidi or Winks is tweaked. Maybe a set up where we don't invert the full back. Maybe a way of playing with 2 strikers on the pitch, or Ndidi a bit deeper.

 

I'm fine with it being our plan A, and not expecting us to completely change the way we play, but it sounds too rigid to not compromise a little where appropriate.