FA Cup win or Promotion

[Dahnsouff]

Maybe it is as simple as the Cup is for the fans, whereas promotion for the club('s future).  

Which is a bit shitty

[Les-TA-Jon]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

Not sure there's any sadder reflection on the state of football than the fact that fans let spreadsheets be the deciding factor in what they want their club to prioritise.

Bit of a simplistic take. FA Cup vs Promotion, right now in the current context is no contest. 

 

If we don't go up this season, you're looking at a complete fire-sale/complete overhaul of the squad, Maresca gone - we'd be almost instantly back to 2008 era and would be at risk of becoming a Stoke. 

 

Is all of that really worth a trophy? One that we recently won too? 

[dmayne7]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Maybe it is as simple as the Cup is for the fans, whereas promotion for the club('s future).  

Which is a bit shitty

Exactly this. Heart always wanted the FA Cup but my head knew how important CL qualification would have been (especially 2 years on the spin). Don't get promoted this year and I think we're back to square one

[bovril]

FA Cup would be more fun. We're on track for the most anti climatic promotion ever. 

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Maybe it is as simple as the Cup is for the fans, whereas promotion for the club('s future).  

Which is a bit shitty

 

I'm definitely a bit biased. I've just never really been that impressed by cup competitions full stop. Watching Greece shit house their way to the Euros broke something in me as a kid I think. 

 

I know there's people who have the opposite reaction, glad to see a scruffy underdog over come the odds etc. 

 

But I just think cup successes come down to luck a lot of the time and in modern football often end up promoting the extremely negative. 

 

I mean even our cup win, the final we just parked the bus for an entire match and scored one long shot. I'm just a lot less impressed by that then success over a complete league season. 

 

[LCFCJoe96]

FA Cup by far

[bovril]

10 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'm definitely a bit biased. I've just never really been that impressed by cup competitions full stop. Watching Greece shit house their way to the Euros broke something in me as a kid I think. 

 

I know there's people who have the opposite reaction, glad to see a scruffy underdog over come the odds etc. 

 

But I just think cup successes come down to luck a lot of the time and in modern football often end up promoting the extremely negative. 

 

I mean even our cup win, the final we just parked the bus for an entire match and scored one long shot. I'm just a lot less impressed by that then success over a complete league season. 

 

Part of it for me is that cup competitions are much more exciting than the drudge of the PL. Admittedly our PL stay was anything but a drudge but we're the exception. I find the PL pretty dull now.

[filbertway]

15 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'm definitely a bit biased. I've just never really been that impressed by cup competitions full stop. Watching Greece shit house their way to the Euros broke something in me as a kid I think. 

 

I know there's people who have the opposite reaction, glad to see a scruffy underdog over come the odds etc. 

 

But I just think cup successes come down to luck a lot of the time and in modern football often end up promoting the extremely negative. 

 

I mean even our cup win, the final we just parked the bus for an entire match and scored one long shot. I'm just a lot less impressed by that then success over a complete league season. 

 

I'm glad someone else on here saw this game for what it was, it's taken 3 long years to see someone else say it.

 

Promotion every day of the week for me, mainly as being in this division can be fun if you're good. If we stay down here this season, I think we very quickly become another Stoke.

[ClaphamFox]

Obviously promotion. Failing to achieve that could be catastrophic. Not winning the FA Cup won't be. No contest whatsoever.

[Dahnsouff]

Could not give a toss personally about bragging rights, be it for winning the cup nor the league, just want what (I imagine) is best for the future of the club.

[AKCJ]

I'd be willing to push the club on the brink of oblivion if we hadn't won the cup.

 

But not going up this season could be the end. We have to go up.

[Nod.E]

36 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

You're not having to explain anything. I understand why people feel the need to think that way.

 

I just find it extremely sad, that's all.

Okay, I've misunderstood your stance slightly. 

 

I do think some folk on here don't fully appreciate why 'the spreadsheets' are so important to our future reality. 

 

Agree it's sad. Been covered to death, but the restrictions that were meant to save clubs from themselves are now so tight that they make growth only the result of near-perfection. 

[Voll Blau]

32 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

This is just dumb though isn't it. 

 

When the question was Champions League qualification or the FA Cup then this was a valid position to take and fair enough. 

 

But right now we're teetering on the edge. We could be the next Derby, Sunderland, Coventry or worse - dare you even look as low as Oldham?

 

Do you want to have to **** off to Boston or Burton or something to watch our home games because they're the closest teams that'll let us use their stadium when we can't afford our own? 

 

This is like saying it's a sad reflection of modern life that I'm letting my bank balance stop me from lying on a beach in the Pacific right now drinking tropical rocket fuel out of a coconut. 

 

People don't us to be promoted so that we can have a lovely big bank balance so that we can be massive. They want us to get promoted because we've got a shit load of debt and need the revenue and they quite like having a football club in the city to support. 

 

Yep, I get it. As I say, I just find it sad that it *has to* enter into fans' way of thinking.

 

 

31 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Mine reasoning isn't money related, I'd imagine we could easily be towards the bottom of this league next season if we didn't go up and also had European football to contend with, along with the exodus of players we'd see this summer.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Bit of a simplistic take. FA Cup vs Promotion, right now in the current context is no contest. 

 

If we don't go up this season, you're looking at a complete fire-sale/complete overhaul of the squad, Maresca gone - we'd be almost instantly back to 2008 era and would be at risk of becoming a Stoke. 

 

Is all of that really worth a trophy? One that we recently won too? 

I personally think showing a desire to win trophies is always an important marker for your ambitions, no matter how you're faring in the league. In the short term, it's great for squad morale but bigger picture it also helps with future recruitment.

[Finnegan]

10 minutes ago, filbertway said:

glad someone else on here saw this game for what it was, it's taken 3 long years to see someone else say it.

 

Yeah that's been my view the whole time tbh. Makes me cringe there's even people who have claimed they enjoyed our cup win more than our league win and I just think wtf is wrong with people frankly. 

 

[bovril]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

Yeah that's been my view the whole time tbh. Makes me cringe there's even people who have claimed they enjoyed our cup win more than our league win and I just think wtf is wrong with people frankly. 

 

I take it you didn't get a ticket 

[Finnegan]

Just now, Voll Blau said:

As I say, I just find it sad that it *has to* enter into fans' way of thinking.

 

Yep, like @Nod.E I didn't quite twig your point in the first instance so fair enough.

 

I dont disagree. I've said a whole bunch of times on a bunch of different subjects, I do completely resent the money in football these days. 

 

But I'm also fairly pragmatic and realistic. That just is the situation, it's not changing any time soon. We struggle enough to unite to fix our society and our problems regards the basic cost of living, we've got no hope fixing football. 

[bovril]

Supporters all have different experiences, are different ages, have different approaches to football and to life. Telling people what they should be enjoying more or what they should prioritise is always going to be difficult. 

Edited 6 March by bovril

[Fox92]

12 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I'm glad someone else on here saw this game for what it was, it's taken 3 long years to see someone else say it.

 

Cup finals are tough. A lot of teams have been "lucky" to win a final. See Chelsea's two Champions League victories, they didn't deserve them on the final alone. So many times. Liverpool's 2001 FA Cup win is another example, were not better than Arsenal but Owen scores two goals and wins it.

 

But those fans, of those winning teams, probably don't belittle their win as much as some of our fans seem to do on here regarding our victory. Proper weird fanbase. We won the FA Cup, I don't care how we won it but we won it, enjoy it ffs. The team, the management, delivered something nobody else had done at this club in the last 100+ years. All for just people to post "ahh we didn't deserve it though".

[Les-TA-Jon]

4 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Yep, I get it. As I say, I just find it sad that it *has to* enter into fans' way of thinking.

I guess I just see the overall health and position of the club and its ability to compete for silverware as intrinsically linked, so my thinking is that A leads into B. 

[bovril]

Thought we were excellent in the cup final and all through the previous rounds apart from a half against Brentford and the Brighton game. I know people look differently on the Rodgers era now but it was a fantastic achievement especially considering the opponents and some of the injuries we had. 

[murphy]

1 hour ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Bit of a simplistic take. FA Cup vs Promotion, right now in the current context is no contest. 

 

If we don't go up this season, you're looking at a complete fire-sale/complete overhaul of the squad, Maresca gone - we'd be almost instantly back to 2008 era and would be at risk of becoming a Stoke. 

 

Is all of that really worth a trophy? One that we recently won too? 

Yes.  Yes it is.  As long as the club didn't go under, I would take that deal.

[Tommy Fresh]

31 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Yep, I get it. As I say, I just find it sad that it *has to* enter into fans' way of thinking.

 

 

 

 

I personally think showing a desire to win trophies is always an important marker for your ambitions, no matter how you're faring in the league. In the short term, it's great for squad morale but bigger picture it also helps with future recruitment.

In the top flight perhaps, in our situation I don't think it does an awful lot apart from hinder us next season.

[Les-TA-Jon]

Just now, murphy said:

Yes.  Yes it is.  As long as the club didn't go under, I would take that deal.

One FA cup trophy this year in exchange for potentially being stuck in the 2nd division or worse for 5-10 years? With dwindling prestige, managerial prospects and lower quality of players coming through? And being hamstrung/receiving points penalties by the EFL for the first 2-3 years too? 

 

Blimey. 

[Gazza M]

Forget the cup. Not happening. 

[RoboFox]