Accounts 22/23

[Corky]

3 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

It took 10 year ish to get over administration, it's going to take 5-10 years to get over this.

Exactly. It will take monumental efforts to comply with the rules, points deductions are coming and/ or will continue to hang over us. Our ability to get quality players in will reduce hugely, ditto managers. 

 

The longer term effects of this will be massive.

[MancFox24]

9 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

I do think the rules are wrong… we invested because we got into Europe for 3 seasons. The next season we’re not… should we then be forced to sell our best players? Its currently all geared so the "top clubs" benefit

I would get this argument if the losses were down to player signings. But our net spend over over 9 PL seasons is around -£190m, or around -£20m per season. That's more than sustainable considering the revenue we would have been bringing in from the success we had. What has been completely unsustainable is the wage structure at the club. I dread to think of the size of the contracts we must have been giving out to get in this much of a mess. So we can blame the rules as much as we want, the financial mismanagement of those handing out the contracts is verging on criminal

[STUHILL]

4 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

It took 10 year ish to get over administration, it's going to take 5-10 years to get over the last 2 season.

why do you think that? We ran out of money back then. That is not the case this time. We still have a billionaire owner. Far richer than most other clubs. 

The club's future existence is not threatened, just our position in the leagues. I think most likely scenario, is that we will be battling midtable in the Championship either next season or the season after. We will be restricted on what we can spend, but still remain competitive in the Championship and look to build on a tight budget, with another promotion push in 2-3 years, likely playoffs with clubs coming down. I certainly don't see a 5-10 year period of doom and gloom.  

[funkyrobot]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Meanwhile, little old Brighton sold all their best players, finished sixth, and made a £123m profit

 

They won’t continually be able to do that though eh? That model has a life span as Leicester and Southampton have shown. They won’t be able to pick up so many bargains as clubs are more aware of their what they do, alongside that, the PSR rules have hit all clubs and the days of selling players like Caicedo for £100m are already unlikely to be replicated. They’ll either drop back down the league or have to spend more on wages and more on transfer fees. 

[FoxinNotts]

7 minutes ago, Corky said:

Exactly. It will take monumental efforts to comply with the rules, points deductions are coming and/ or will continue to hang over us. Our ability to get quality players in will reduce hugely, ditto managers. 

 

The longer term effects of this will be massive.

Correct. But at least we have a passionate, partisan, noisey fan base to create a caldron and a siege mentality to get behind the team 👀

[HankMarvin]

5 minutes ago, MancFox24 said:

I would get this argument if the losses were down to player signings. But our net spend over over 9 PL seasons is around -£190m, or around -£20m per season. That's more than sustainable considering the revenue we would have been bringing in from the success we had. What has been completely unsustainable is the wage structure at the club. I dread to think of the size of the contracts we must have been giving out to get in this much of a mess. So we can blame the rules as much as we want, the financial mismanagement of those handing out the contracts is verging on criminal

It’s not sustainable though because how many of those years were inflated by individual player sales. Sooner or later there was going to be talent that wasn’t sold for as much money 

[KansasFox]

Not excusing any of this mess, but I think the way the regulations currently are, any non big six team that had a few years in Europe and then was relegated would be in big trouble!

They have totally succeeded in make success a closed shop. Anyone else who has success, like us, will be punished for any attempt to maintain it.  Any attempt to compete will and in disaster with just one or two seasons of a downturn in performance. 

Edited 2 April by KansasFox
Spl. Correction

[dynamark]

Anyone got a sweetshop for sale cos I know some folk who may just be able to run it

[Dahnsouff]

The lesson is, never try.

 

Or maths is hard.

[HitchinFox]

2 hours ago, Haywood_6 said:

We'll get the book thrown at us now won't we. 

Let's somehow place Danny Ward in the line of it. He'll never get anywhere near it, so we can claim that we never received anything and have no idea what they are talking about. 

[STUHILL]

2 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

They won’t continually be able to do that though eh? That model has a life span as Leicester and Southampton have shown. They won’t be able to pick up so many bargains as clubs are more aware of their what they do, alongside that, the PSR rules have hit all clubs and the days of selling players like Caicedo for £100m are already unlikely to be replicated. They’ll either drop back down the league or have to spend more on wages and more on transfer fees. 

Absolutely this! 

 

Brighton are on the exact trajectory we were on. They will have to make the same decision soon too. Either stop selling key assets each season, in an attempt to maintain top 8 finishes and European football OR keep selling their best players and sooner rather than later, increasingly expensive replacements on higher wages, flop, form nose dives and a relegation battle ensues, with fans demanding more investment. 

 

They will either break rules to stay up there OR stick to the rules and find themselves in a relegation battle over the next few seasons due to their Manager and best players being snatched away.

[BillyFOX12]

1 minute ago, HitchinFox said:

Let's somehow place Danny Ward in the line of it. He'll never get anywhere near it, so we can claim that we never received anything and have no idea what they are talking about. 

Might not be less funny come next season when we've sold all of our assets and left back with Danny Ward in goal.

 

[coolhandfox]

2 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

why do you think that? We ran out of money back then. That is not the case this time. We still have a billionaire owner. Far richer than most other clubs. 

The club's future existence is not threatened, just our position in the leagues. I think most likely scenario, is that we will be battling midtable in the Championship either next season or the season after. We will be restricted on what we can spend, but still remain competitive in the Championship and look to build on a tight budget, with another promotion push in 2-3 years, likely playoffs with clubs coming down. I certainly don't see a 5-10 year period of doom and gloom.  

We aren't going to become well ran over night, we have breached 22/23 and will breached 23/24. 

 

Unless the FFP rules change we are going to have to make 30m profit in 24/25 not to breach again.

 

I'm counting this season in my time line.

 

We could be in 25/26 before we are financially out of the woods, what state is the squad in by than? 

 

 

 

[FoxTimmy2]

How Leicester City is run:

[Foxin_Mad]

3 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Absolutely this! 

 

Brighton are on the exact trajectory we were on. They will have to make the same decision soon too. Either stop selling key assets each season, in an attempt to maintain top 8 finishes and European football OR keep selling their best players and sooner rather than later, increasingly expensive replacements on higher wages, flop, form nose dives and a relegation battle ensues, with fans demanding more investment. 

 

They will either break rules to stay up there OR stick to the rules and find themselves in a relegation battle over the next few seasons due to their Manager and best players being snatched away.

Brighton already have Debts of 400 million. I'm wondering how teams like Brentford and Bournemouth compete full stop with generally less revenue. The games broken, the rules are stupid.

Edited 2 April by Foxin_Mad

[Vestan Pance]

35 minutes ago, Collymore said:

Over the last 3 years we have lost £3 a second. Just count that in your head - 3,6,9,12 - every day and night. 

 

 

 

 

If you buy a shirt, the profit would be lost in roughly 3 seconds. Stunning.

[funkyrobot]

1 hour ago, JimmyC74 said:

Kieran Maguire has essentially said our situation similar to Leeds when it went tits up in the early noughties. So its about as bad as you can get.

It’s says a lot about the state of our football that account analysts like Kieran Maguire are the new experts that are becoming more influential and famous than ex professional footballers actually talking about the game.
 

I would say he has a tendency to be a bit dramatic and ‘clickbaity’ with his conclusions. It’s unreasonable to compare our situation to Leeds, whose owners didn’t have the finances to cope with the losses and went into administration. Our issue is our billionaire owner can afford our losses but is penalised by an outdated, unfit for purpose and very soon to be changed PSR clampdown that appears to be in place to assist and protect the big 6 clubs. 

[Frank Large's Black Book]

20 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

A bad Managerial appointment, a handful of expensive player flops and some key injuries at the wrong time - the wheels can truly come off in spectacular fashion. 

I suspect many Premier League clubs are on the edge of repeating our failures. Ambition seems to come at a high price in the PL. 

Not to dismiss the sheer incompetence of our board, but surely the PL should look at these restrictions again. There should be protection against clubs bankrupting themselves, but that should not come at the cost of restricting investment and ambition. Simply, if an owner has the money, let them spend it and allow a club to become a bigger club! All the effort and attention by the PL, should be directed at the incoming owners and making them 100% accountable for the future of the club, by depositing a safety net fund, and increasing that for every penny more they want to invest. 

 

Perfect Summary

 

Perfect Storm

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, coolhandfox said:

We aren't going to become well ran over night, we have breached 22/23 and will breached 23/24. 

 

Unless the FFP rules change we are going to have to make 30m profit in 24/25 not to breach again.

 

I'm counting this season in my time line.

 

We could be in 25/26 before we are financially out of the woods, what state is the squad in by than? 

 

 

 

Next season will be a mess, but getting promoted will no doubt be a massive help in offsetting that. We are likely to come straight back down but I'd take that over not going up and no chance of going up the season after with a points deduction and player fire sale. 

You're right that it will be the season after at the earliest, we will likely be free of charges and deductions, but I still think we can build after that and rather quickly compared to many other Championship clubs other than the relegated 3 each season. 

2-3 years before we can start looking like a competitive, playoff chasing team again, not 5-10 years of doom and gloom IMO. 

[inckley fox]

8 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Absolutely this! 

 

Brighton are on the exact trajectory we were on. They will have to make the same decision soon too. Either stop selling key assets each season, in an attempt to maintain top 8 finishes and European football OR keep selling their best players and sooner rather than later, increasingly expensive replacements on higher wages, flop, form nose dives and a relegation battle ensues, with fans demanding more investment. 

 

They will either break rules to stay up there OR stick to the rules and find themselves in a relegation battle over the next few seasons due to their Manager and best players being snatched away.

Alternatively, they could keep recruiting in the way they have done for the past half decade or so, and accept that they'll have to develop those players and sell on their costliest talent. As they have done up to now. Why change? And why did we change?

[kyleolly]

8 minutes ago, BillyFOX12 said:

Might not be less funny come next season when we've sold all of our assets and left back with Danny Ward in goal.

 

Maybe the club were anticipating a transfer embargo hence why the gave the young talent big contract extensions and also gave Hamza another 4 years 

[dmayne7]

25 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

A bad Managerial appointment, a handful of expensive player flops and some key injuries at the wrong time - the wheels can truly come off in spectacular fashion. 

I suspect many Premier League clubs are on the edge of repeating our failures. Ambition seems to come at a high price in the PL. 

Not to dismiss the sheer incompetence of our board, but surely the PL should look at these restrictions again. There should be protection against clubs bankrupting themselves, but that should not come at the cost of restricting investment and ambition. Simply, if an owner has the money, let them spend it and allow a club to become a bigger club! All the effort and attention by the PL, should be directed at the incoming owners and making them 100% accountable for the future of the club, by depositing a safety net fund, and increasing that for every penny more they want to invest. 

Got to be something like this. Or even a one year exemption in the cycle would be better. I.e. you lose £150m in 3 years but that's because you went big one year and had a loss of £100m+ that year. Shows that you're fine in PL terms for the other years and allows clubs to have a dart at it every few years without jeopardising the long term future.

[MancFox24]

8 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

It’s not sustainable though because how many of those years were inflated by individual player sales. Sooner or later there was going to be talent that wasn’t sold for as much money 

But this was our model and apart from 21/22, we did sell a big player every year. The problems have come when we put squad players on ridiculous wages and then haven't been able to shift them. I bet agents couldn't believe their luck at the contracts we were dishing out 

[HankMarvin]

3 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

We aren't going to become well ran over night, we have breached 22/23 and will breached 23/24. 

 

Unless the FFP rules change we are going to have to make 30m profit in 24/25 not to breach again.

 

I'm counting this season in my time line.

 

We could be in 25/26 before we are financially out of the woods, what state is the squad in by than? 

 

 

 

Even if FSR comes into play in benefits the bigger clubs with higher revenue. Leagues and spending will be top heavy. 

[coolhandfox]

6 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Next season will be a mess, but getting promoted will no doubt be a massive help in offsetting that. We are likely to come straight back down but I'd take that over not going up and no chance of going up the season after with a points deduction and player fire sale. 

You're right that it will be the season after at the earliest, we will likely be free of charges and deductions, but I still think we can build after that and rather quickly compared to many other Championship clubs other than the relegated 3 each season. 

2-3 years before we can start looking like a competitive, playoff chasing team again, not 5-10 years of doom and gloom IMO. 

Maybe.

 

I'm not sure being competitive PO team in the Championship can be counted as a full recovery, when you have been a steady PL club for 9 season.

Edited 2 April by coolhandfox