Buonanotte - joined on loan.

[CrispinLA in Texas]

1 minute ago, teblin said:

We need to get over “I can’t believe we are loaning from Brighton” we are where we are. One season or 2 of loans and frugal spending hopefully scraped staying up. Brighton will end up down there sooner or later always happens with the side that are punching above, like we were to be fair.

Don't really think so, do you know who their owner is....he's seems a guy on the ball compared to our owner who's always on a worldwide jolly

[mozartfox]

26 minutes ago, les-tah said:

And a couple of caps for the Argentina team so got to be half decent

Wards got loads of caps with Wales

[Lambert09]

I might be hugely in the minority, but I would actually prefer braybrooke, nelson and alves spent the season out on loan.

 

We are likely to have a rough season and that might not be ideal for their development. My main concern is that if they do show what they are capable of, they would just be poached in the summer. We’d be better off getting them prepped for next season where we’ve either blagged survival or we build a championship team around them. 

[les-tah]

1 minute ago, mozartfox said:

Wards got loads of caps with Wales

Yeah and Ward is half decent when he is no where near a football pitch

[turtmcfly]

10 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Just to make it clear. I’m talking about an option to buy as opposed to an obligation.

 

I didn't think you were talking about an obligation, but that's irrelevant.

 

I think you should be consistent in your putting forward the possibility he has a great season (or a shit one) across option/no option (or even obligation) scenarios.

 

As it stands you don't seem willing to attribute any benefits of a good/great season to the non-option loan, or acknowledge the potential benefits of redirecting any 'silly money' needed to get an option elsewhere within our (obviously limited) tranfer budget.

 

 

[Old Fox]

25 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

Our first Argentinian 

Yep if you don’t include one of the greatest ever in Esteban Cambiasso 😂

[Steve Earle]

3 hours ago, davieG said:

Buonanotte is a 19year old attacking midfielder/winger.

 

Will Alves is a 19 year old attacking midfield/winger

 

Sure Buonanotte has more experience but how is Alves going to get his if we keep putting obstacles in his way?

 

Have I misunderstood their relative situations?

Maybe we’re aiming to do the opposite and open up his career path by giving him a season in the Championship?

[suffolk fox]

6 minutes ago, Old Fox said:

Yep if you don’t include one of the greatest ever in Esteban Cambiasso 😂

or Leornardo Ulloa

[teblin]

23 minutes ago, CrispinLA in Texas said:

Don't really think so, do you know who their owner is....he's seems a guy on the ball compared to our owner who's always on a worldwide jolly

We wouldn’t have thought we would’ve ended up where we have 4 years ago.

[StanSP]

3 hours ago, davieG said:

Buonanotte is a 19year old attacking midfielder/winger.

 

Will Alves is a 19 year old attacking midfield/winger

 

Sure Buonanotte has more experience but how is Alves going to get his if we keep putting obstacles in his way?

 

Have I misunderstood their relative situations?

Neither of them will play every minute of every game. Surely it's good to have rotation and options? 

 

 

[South Shire Fox]

Loan market is the way to go instead of wasting money on shite. Would be happy with this, very highly rated

[SafewayFox]

29 minutes ago, teblin said:

We need to get over “I can’t believe we are loaning from Brighton” we are where we are. One season or 2 of loans and frugal spending hopefully scraped staying up. Brighton will end up down there sooner or later always happens with the side that are punching above, like we were to be fair.

With their data led scouting model, I’d much rather loan players from Brighton compared to a high % of other PL clubs.

[izzymuzzet]

He’ll need to play well or it will be goodnight to the Premier League.

[South Shire Fox]

2 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

With their data led scouting model, I’d much rather loan players from Brighton compared to a high % of other PL clubs.

We should be using their model to buy our own players. Not Jordan fcking Ayew

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

1 minute ago, South Shire Fox said:

We should be using their model to buy our own players. Not Jordan fcking Ayew

We did once upon a time!

 

This guy sounds like an Italian sweet snack. Is he any good? 

[DezFox]

39 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

Wards got loads of caps with Wales

I always forget the quality of the wales team compared to Argentina haha

[FoxinNotts]

[Scotch]

I honestly couldn't give a toss if we are helping develop Brightons players. 

All that matters is improving our team, right now. This season and from the little I've seen of him, I think he would be our best starting #10 at this current time. I like #10's who also work hard as well as adding creativity and he definately appears to do that. 

[AKCJ]

39 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

I didn't think you were talking about an obligation, but that's irrelevant.

 

I think you should be consistent in your putting forward the possibility he has a great season (or a shit one) across option/no option (or even obligation) scenarios.

 

As it stands you don't seem willing to attribute any benefits of a good/great season to the non-option loan, or acknowledge the potential benefits of redirecting any 'silly money' needed to get an option elsewhere within our (obviously limited) tranfer budget.

 

 

The way I see it there are 3 potential outcomes for the season.

 

1. He's shit and we won't want to keep him.

2. He's decent, shows potential and is one to keep an eye on.

3. He's sensational. Big reason he's kept us in the league.

 

I would imagine that it's most likely he'll be a '2'. My aggrievance is that we've not got the option covered on the off chance that he becomes a '3'.

 

So we take all the risk on taking him ahead of other options, we play him 20-30 times next season and yet we stand to gain nothing long term from it. I don't see any point in taking youth on loan if there's no chance of signing him in the next season.

 

I get it if we're taking the jewels of the crowns of elite academies but we're not. We're signing a lad from Brighton that was signed for **** all and has had one moderate season and who plays in a position they're actively looking to strengthen in. They hold all the cards.

 

It's just typical of life under John Rudkin.

 

 

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, Scotch said:

I honestly couldn't give a toss if we are helping develop Brightons players. 

All that matters is improving our team, right now. This season and from the little I've seen of him, I think he would be our best starting #10 at this current time. I like #10's who also work hard as well as adding creativity and he definately appears to do that. 

He's not a creative midfielder and would only be our best number 10 through default of being our only number 10.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

He's not a creative midfielder and would only be our best number 10 through default of being our only number 10.

We clearly don`t want a 10 so that is fine

[Ted Maul]

4 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Loaning players off Brighton. Sign of the times. 

Properly ****ing depressing, that.

 

Though if we've not got the money to buy quality (or certainly not looking in the right markets), loans are pretty much all we've got.

[Jobyfox]

57 minutes ago, Old Fox said:

Yep if you don’t include one of the greatest ever in Esteban Cambiasso 😂

Yep - I’d assumed people would know that my tongue was firmly in my cheek… 

[turtmcfly]

27 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

The way I see it there are 3 potential outcomes for the season.

 

1. He's shit and we won't want to keep him.

2. He's decent, shows potential and is one to keep an eye on.

3. He's sensational. Big reason he's kept us in the league.

 

I would imagine that it's most likely he'll be a '2'. My aggrievance is that we've not got the option covered on the off chance that he becomes a '3'.

 

So we take all the risk on taking him ahead of other options, we play him 20-30 times next season and yet we stand to gain nothing long term from it. I don't see any point in taking youth on loan if there's no chance of signing him in the next season.

 

I get it if we're taking the jewels of the crowns of elite academies but we're not. We're signing a lad from Brighton that was signed for **** all and has had one moderate season and who plays in a position they're actively looking to strengthen in. They hold all the cards.

 

It's just typical of life under John Rudkin.

 

 

 

I don't think your arguments work even with this not so subtle switch to this being about the long term.

Dealing with the spectrum of outcomes;

• Outcome 1 - shelling out for an option to buy would have been a mistake. Especially shelling out silly money (which you suggested). 
  • Outcome 1b - injured for a big chunk of the season. Ditto
• Outcome 2 - If we're just keeping an eye on him, by defnition we're not buying. So, again, we've wasted (silly) money on an option to buy.
• Outcome 3 - I'll give up now trying to explain to you why if he did indeed help keep us in the league, "I don't see any point in taking youth on loan" seems like a (performatively?) dense take.
  • The 'point' in taking this particular youth on loan will have been 'keeping us in the league'. Quite a big point, that
  • If you want to talk in terms of long term gains, I'd say staying in the PL next year would be a dial shifter.

 

 

Edited 8 August 2024 by turtmcfly

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, CrispinLA in Texas said:

Don't really think so, do you know who their owner is....he's seems a guy on the ball compared to our owner who's always on a worldwide jolly

Has any club EVER not slid down again without billions? The simple fact is they will continue to get their players and managers poached until they make a few wrong decisions, which every single person in the world will do at some point. As we saw ourselves, it doesn't take much to slide down.