Cooper - OUT

[Babylon]

12 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Thing is, do we really expect Everton and Wolves to stay down there? That's the only thing keeping us out of the bottom 3 at the moment. 

 

Everton finished on 40 points (15th last season / 48 pts or 11th without the deductions). Wolves finished on 46 points (14th). 

I didn't expect us to get relegated, but we were. 

[Hirsty The Blue 94]

I was fairly neutral when we brought him in, knew with the liklihood of a deduction we weren't going to get anyone of any real ambition.

 

Equally given how poor most on here perceived the season was going to be and the transfer business being shocking, a return of 3 points from 5 games and outside the drop zone is probably about where we expected to be. We also haven't been beaten heavily and been in every game to the last whistle which atleast shows the squad has some fight in them.

 

However that is where the positives stop. His team selections are baffling, alienating Ricardo and Vesty 2 of our 3 best players last year, playing an inbalanced midfield, only playing 1 of our 2 wingers who might do something positive at any given time are all bizarre moves.

 

There is also no real style of play that you can hang your hat on, we don't play out from the back, we're not direct, we don't really counter attack, we don't get loads of crosses in. Compared to the micro management of Maresca last year, this seems the complete opposite, chuck 11 on the pitch and let them figure it out. 

 

Added to that his in game management in almost every game has been poor, with his subs either being like for like or the one time we were holding a lead ultra defensive for 30 minutes. 

 

Finally whether they are his signings or suggested by the recruitment team, none of them have improved the team vastly from last year. Okoli has looked okay but what more he gives you than Vesty in some areas you lose with his inability to pass the ball, Skipp again tidy but not a position we needed given the glaring holes elsewhere. The rest jury is very much still out. 

 

In my eyes he has until the international break, avoid a mauling at Arsenal and beat Bournemouth at home and he has earned the right to have a crack at the winnable games in October, anything less then I think we should pull the trigger. We are a much more attractive proposition than we were in the summer and the players by in large look capable of staying up in this league. 

 

I'm hoping given he wasn't given a massive contract and likely to be one of, if not the, lowest paid manager in the league it shouldn't be too costly to get rid so we won't have that hanging over our neck when a decision needs to be made.

[pmcla26]

Just now, Hirsty The Blue 94 said:

a return of 3 points from 5 games and outside the drop zone is probably about where we expected to be. 

 

Before the season started I was hoping/expecting: 

 

Spurs L 

Fulham D

Villa L 

Palace D 

Everton W 

 

So a win and two points down. It's not lots but it adds up at the end of the campaign.

[Ric Flair]

23 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

Really not sure who we go for if we do decide to move Cooper on. 

 

Moyes is the standout candidate with a decent win percentage at this level. Potter would be a good option too but I'd be wary given the back and forth we've had with him in the past. Unsure whether it's realistic or not but I'd be tempted to try our luck for Thomas Frank, surely we're a bigger club with a higher ceiling than Brentford, although I would not blame him in the slightest if he had zero interest given how the club is ran. 

 

I'm not overly keen on Corberan. Yes, WBA had a decent season last year and again have started well this season, but his overall win percentage is relatively average, and he has yet to test himself at the highest level. I was also unimpressed with the way WBA went about the two playoff games. The biggest games that they've had for a decade and they set up horrendously showing no desire to get to the final. Across the two games Corberan did nothing to address the situation, so whilst he's a bit of a wildcard and could potentially be decent, I think it's too big a gamble based on what we need to achieve this season. 

 

Niko Kovac would possibly be an unrealistic target but he'd be my standout choice from available managers. Strong track record at bringing through academy players and developing young players. 

[Ric Flair]

I most certainly expected more than 4 points from the opening 5, especially once we'd got a few more players through the door and especially after the transfer window shut.

 

Those defending Cooper are jumping on the negativity that's shrouded the place all summer than many predicted we'd be comfortably relegated this season. Even if that remained unaffected after some of the business we got done, the causation of that is very much being orchestrated by Cooper so it's not reason enough to keep as because we're likely to go down anyway.

 

I'm glad he recognised at home vs the likes of Everton we needed a creative central midfielder in but bar that tweak, his decision making on Saturday was extremely bothersome.

[winteriscoming]

27 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Niko Kovac would possibly be an unrealistic target but he'd be my standout choice from available managers. Strong track record at bringing through academy players and developing young players. 

Roger Schmidt is the one I hope we at least try and get. 

[ian__marshall]

49 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

My sweet summer child. Nobody is leaving Brentford for us.

 

Agreed, but don't you think it's shocking that we find ourselves in that situation. I mean less than 10 years ago we won the PL and now we're effectively saying we've got little chance of poaching their manager. Not trying to be disrespectful in anyway to them, but in terms of the food chain we shouldn't be viewed as a less attractive proposition than a team that averages just over half our attendance and has spent the vast majority of the last 80 years playing third and fourth tier football. Appreciate this is where we find ourselves and agree wholeheartedly that there's little chance he'd come, but one can hope and dream. 

[Nuge]

Really feels like we've gone back 20 years as a club appointing managers like Cooper. Maybe it's just a shock reality check back to normal Leicester City service after the last 10 years we've had, but still, I didn't expect it to happen quite so quickly.

Maybe if we're sharp about it and get rid asap, we can reverse this situation, but ultimately I think he'll still be here at Christmas.

 

[ian__marshall]

45 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Niko Kovac would possibly be an unrealistic target but he'd be my standout choice from available managers. Strong track record at bringing through academy players and developing young players. 

Good call Ric, he wasn't on my radar but looking at his stats I think he'd do well. Managed at a decent level previously with a decent win percentage. Also GD is in the positive at every club. No idea how much he'd cost but is definitely in the mould of what we need. 

[RoboFox]

Our golden age is over. It ended the moment we were relegated. You can thank Rodgers and the complicit board for that. 

 

We've reverted back to the mean which is a lower half Premier League, top half Championship yo-yo club. 

 

We go down this year, I fear it'll be the last time we're in the top flight for a very, very long time. It really doesn't seem like the gravity of our situation has really sunk in a board level.

 

We have one chance, and I'm yet to be convinced Cooper is the man to shoulder the responsibility. 

[Levi Port]

Biggest issue is the system he’s set upon, it’s far too inflexible and doesn’t get the best out of the squad at all.
 

Leaves you with only one winger and relies far to much on a fullback on the other sides quality in attack, which neither are good enough at at this level. 
 

When we’ve needed to be proactive with the ball we’ve been disgusting to watch, slow and indecisive, no patterns. It’s only in breakdowns and we play it forward quickly when there is space that we have any joy. Or from a set peice (decent positive that we’re scoring from these now). 
 

The only other positive is that we won’t have a lot of possession, and if we can make more turn overs we can get chances, but even then we’re playing with one had behind our back as we only play one winger, and Vardy can just be doubled up on. 
 

Not sure where Cooper goes from here as he’s gone all in on this system and it’s just too conservative. 

[Ric Flair]

10 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

Roger Schmidt is the one I hope we at least try and get. 

I'd not be against Schmidt either but his tactics are quite extreme that they can take time to implement / get worked out by the opposition.

 

He was also criticised in the past for how he handled young players coming through, Madueke for example so I'm on the fence with him.

[Hales]

Alienating Ricardo

Jannick has disappeared

Giving Fatawu 2 minutes!

Taking off Stephy, the best player

The players stating they were not up to the fight from the beginning

Edouard 10 minutes

Dropping Skipp after his best performance

Zero subs when the game is passing us by....

Not starting the best players

 

🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

 

Top...............over to you........

[The Doctor]

3 hours ago, Stevosevic said:

Or we’re just wasting two winnable games . 

oh hey, that sounds very familiar. remember not sacking Rodgers two weeks earlier at the start of an international break?

[J. James]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

How many times in the past have we all (myself included) screamed for a certain combination of players to play, and then when they did they were crap.

This is exactly correct but the confirmation bias that every one of us suffers from means that we tend to discount/forget the failures and only count/remember the successes.

 

For me there is absolutely no doubt that none of the posters here or elsewhere could do a better job than Cooper, the question is whether there is a coach (who is prepared to come here) that could.

 

The answer is yes there is, unfortunately the really difficult bit is who!

 

Honestly, it's all a gamble but like all forms of gambling the more information acquired and the more intelligent the gambler the more chance there is of success.

 

However the odds of survival increase greatly as the season wears on and the calibre of coach needed increases in direct proportion to the points required until a combination of Pep, Klopp, Paisley and Ferguson would be insufficient!

 

They will stick with the donkey until he morphs into Shergar or fails, but frankly in the latter case, it will be too late.

 

 

[The Doctor]

32 minutes ago, Nuge said:

Really feels like we've gone back 20 years as a club appointing managers like Cooper. Maybe it's just a shock reality check back to normal Leicester City service after the last 10 years we've had, but still, I didn't expect it to happen quite so quickly.

Maybe if we're sharp about it and get rid asap, we can reverse this situation, but ultimately I think he'll still be here at Christmas.

 

yep. Cooper is just an Allardyce for the TikTok generation. he's the manager you appoint when you're out of ideas and just on the new clogger every October train 

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Doesn't suit your agenda, but the 2 goal lead was lost almost immediately. How was he going to react within that time? Clearly impossible. 

That's fair - let me rephrase the end of that to "he did everything in his power to give Palace 30 minutes to score, by turning the game into an attack v defence training session"

[Grebfromgrebland]

It's times like this when we really miss Vichai.

[Pliskin]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

Pearson had 2 draws in 13 in the premier league, and another stretch of 2 draws in 7. Added to 2 wins in 16 games at the end of the 12/13 season in the championship. And he's not the first manager Vichai back through long periods of rubbish either. 

 

Putting aside some of the managers decisions for one moment, I'm not sure what people were actually expecting in a results sense. It's bloody hard, look at the other promoted clubs. They are scrapping for any old point just like we are. Last third of last season most people on here were expecting a struggle as we weren't exactly looking slick. 

Naturally all manager make mistakes and bad calls it’s learning from them that counts…..

 

Pearson and Cooper situations are different, yes we are in reality a newly promoted team, but also we are not. We’ve spent the best part of a decade in the top flight, so it really shouldn’t be a surprise to us, not like Christmas sneaking up on HR departments…… 

 

Cooper is making poor calls and bad mistakes continually, the squad we have now, is better than the one Pearson had, there is still a vast amount of premier league experience at Cooper disposal, and he is still making bad calls. There’s no defending the decision to play Ayew from the off at the weekend, against a 39 year old left back? It’s simply dreadful decision, and then that dreadful decision was compounded by the fact he didn’t even bring him off, he ended up bringing Fatawu on the opposite flank? Surely, surely any manager worth their salt would go full on attack and look to pummel Young….. Fatawu is learning his game, but he would have terrorised Young given the chance, and having two dynamic wingers would have given Everton multiple things to think about…. It was made all too easy for them, and this is a common theme from game to game. 
 

Cooper hasn’t got a grip of this team, he can’t strike a good balance between defence and attack, and if I’m brutally honest I don’t think all of the players are having him, Everton scrapped for everything, they won most of the 50/50’s and they never backed out of a challenge, for the majority of the game we looked like we didn’t want to be out there, and the conditions can’t be blamed, because it did not seem to negatively impact Everton’s game.

 

The team have gone from a very likeable character, hard, firm and very sure of their identity, to a bloke who’s very flaccid in comparison. Naturally not all managers will be popular with the players, Cooper will suit some and not others, but I don’t get the impression the lads are fighting for him. He seems like a lovely bloke and likeable character, but his tactical ideology is cack, he simply can’t get the balance of this team right. 
 

In terms of results I didn’t know what was expecting, but from what I’ve seen so far I’m actually hopeful for this team. We’ve been in every game we’ve played, and in my opinion it’s been Cooper’s tactics and decision making that have cost us points. So reflecting on the past 5 games I think we should have more points on the board and at least one victory. 

 

The longer he stays the more toxic it will get and the worse we will get he won’t turn this around, so in my opinion what’s the point in prolonging the inevitable? 

[pmcla26]

We should have got the next Maresca in. Someone like Carlos Cuesta. Keep the style of play going, rather than going from Man City lite to Scunthorpe United. 

[urban.spaceman]

22 minutes ago, Hales said:

Alienating Ricardo

Jannick has disappeared

Giving Fatawu 2 minutes!

Taking off Stephy, the best player

The players stating they were not up to the fight from the beginning

Edouard 10 minutes

Dropping Skipp after his best performance

Zero subs when the game is passing us by....

Not starting the best players

 

🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

 

Top...............over to you........

Good lyrics but what's it to the tune of?

[bovril]

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

Good lyrics but what's it to the tune of?

Billy Joel obviously 

 

🎵 Not starting the best players

Cooper's gurning but the board's not learning 🎵 

 

[brookfox]

Before the season started, I thought we'd go down due to point deductions and just not having a squad good enough. Both feel like moot points now, and having seen the team and some other games I honestly believe we should be targeting something around 10-14th place (as much as a mindset).

 

It's now looking like the thing that will be our undoing is purely down to tactics and even more so our in-game management. He's got us pretty competitive, but Coopers winless streak in the Prem unfortunately points to a manager who is probably a bit out of his depth at this level. Plenty of strikers for example who can cut it in the Championship but not make the step up, feels like Cooper may be the manager equivalent.

[Muzzy_no7]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Nope, we aren't Forest. 

 

How much of a difference did NES make with his 3 wins in 22 games period last season for Forest? His change wasn't created overnight. 

Incorrect, his impact was what was required and immediate.

 

Pooper - 18 games -14pts.

 

NES - 20 games - 22pts. 
 

Fans are right to look at Poopers PL record overall, it’s appalling. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

43 minutes ago, brookfox said:

Before the season started, I thought we'd go down due to point deductions and just not having a squad good enough. Both feel like moot points now, and having seen the team and some other games I honestly believe we should be targeting something around 10-14th place (as much as a mindset).

 

It's now looking like the thing that will be our undoing is purely down to tactics and even more so our in-game management. He's got us pretty competitive, but Coopers winless streak in the Prem unfortunately points to a manager who is probably a bit out of his depth at this level. Plenty of strikers for example who can cut it in the Championship but not make the step up, feels like Cooper may be the manager equivalent.

Has he even done that?

 

We lost to Villa and Fulham easily enough. Spurs 1-1 felt more down to Vardy magic and good crowd. We chucked away 2 points vs Palace and didn't take a relegation 6 pointer vs Everton seriously. 

 

We're 2nd best in most important metrics in all 5 games so far.