Ricardo mystery

[AjcW]

Just now, Babylon said:

He prefers JJ currently, not sure what reasoning you need. You might not agree with it, but most mangers are going to keep it internal. As soon as you start questioning players publicly, you are on a sticky wicket. 

I've heard scores of managers say things like "he just needs to adapt slightly to a specific way i'm asking him to play this season"

 

Perfectly reasonable and perfectly fine to have out in the open. 

 

Pep does it brilliantly. 

[Babylon]

1 minute ago, AjcW said:

I've heard scores of managers say things like "he just needs to adapt slightly to a specific way i'm asking him to play this season"

 

Perfectly reasonable and perfectly fine to have out in the open. 

 

Pep does it brilliantly. 

Pep can bomb out £60m players on a whim because he can just buy a new one. It's a bit different. If he thinks it's best left between him and the player then so be it, whether I agree with it or not. 

[inckley fox]

On 19/09/2024 at 08:58, Babylon said:

In his previous three premier league seasons, he managed to start what I think was a grand total of 17 games (or around that). 

 

22/23: 453 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 23rd

21/22: 994 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 5th

20/21: 959 minutes | *Whoscored Ranking: 15th (Justin was 4th)

 

Ricardo hasn't been the same player since 19/20, he was one of the best players in the league then. Sensational. I'm more than happy for people to want to see him play, but building him up like he's been anything close to the player pre injury is frankly just ignoring what's been in front of us. And I fail to see have someone making 5 starts a season on average could even come into the conversation about being our best player. 

 

*I don't rate who scored, but in the absence of any want or time to search out a million metrics, I've just used it here as an example. 

 

I was just half-way through writing pretty much this, albeit less detailed. So now I've had to go back and change everything so I'm not just repeating you...

 

It's the court of public opinion which is being used to slate Cooper for this, among many other things, right now. And at times its reasoning has been a bit mucky. So it's worth looking at where it stood on the last three seasons that Ricardo played at this level.

 

In 20-21 he started ten PL games, coming off early in three of them. We conceded seven goals in the final two and one glance at the post-match stuff after West Ham and Newcastle tells you that people were certain he was a spent force. It seemed a bit premature to me at the time but his season was devastated by follow-on injuries and poor form, and it was clear that we couldn't build around him over Castagne and Justin at that point.

 

A season on, there were more injuries. 13 starts, coming off (often very) early in four of them. He was dropped after we shipped four to West Ham early in the season and never truly regained his place.

 

And in our relegation season, again, more injuries, more poor form. He made five PL starts, which we only picked up a single point from. The court of public opinion on here was very clear that that was game over for him.

 

Now, go down a division and change his role so he's no longer bombing up and down the line, and he has a great season. I wouldn't argue, though part of what was wonderful about it was the surprise to see someone look the part who, for three years, did not. But most of us saw how sides had learnt to exploit the gaps on our right in the second tier and doubted we'd continue to play Ricardo in a hybrid role. And many of us wondered whether he'd be able to revert to the standard FB role that he'd failed to nail down for three years or be preferred in the middle over seasoned CMs.

 

Add to that a pre-season where he looked poor and was dropped after a stinker of a performance, and the only real mystery is looking at JJ's displays and wondering 'if this is HIS level now, why weren't we in the market for a right back?' As much as I know Riccy was the better player, and wonder whether he might be a bit more solid there than Justin, a quick revision of how he got on for three seasons in that role suffices to not lose any sleep over the 'mystery' of it all.

[volpeazzurro]

6 minutes ago, Babylon said:

No player is going to get a guaranteed spot, just doesn't happen. A manager might say he sees them as a key player and they are likely to get a lot of minutes, but that's about the extent of it. The simple most likely answer with JJ and Ayew is that Cooper as it stands is a nervous nelly and wants to err on the side of caution with more defensive players. 

True, but Ricardo and Fatawu would be better than JJ and Ayew defensively as well as attacking wise. They certainly would have been against an ageing Young at left back. Fatawu when played has come to the rescue of JJ a number of times this season already. In fact, although not his position, he looks a better fullback than JJ full stop!

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

Presumably it can only be down to JJs pace. And Cooper is anxious about the CBs lack of it being exposed. There is no doubt JJ is quicker than Riccy. However, football brain and ability can mitigate against the 'pace issue'. 

 

If I'd seen JJ sprinting up the right flank on the overlap this season I'd say fair enough. But as he mostly plays like Danny Simpson i.e. deep lying RB. Why can't Riccy do that and bring his extra ability to the team at the same time?

[inckley fox]

On 19/09/2024 at 19:20, Kierzz said:

But surely after proving his fitness over a full season last year and being possibly our best player (or definitely in the top 3 or 5) you would give him the opportunity to start the season at full back? Those metrics appear to mainly apply to seasons where he has had recurring injuries.

 

Appreciate he was inverted so covered less metres but this also allowed him to grow the technical and tactical side of his game. At times in games this season we have desperately needed players better at progressing the ball out of def nice and holding possession.

 

I heard Stowell on the radio a little while ago at the start of this season. He described Ricardo as "the Rolls Royce in the side" and that he is at his best as an attacking fullback and couldn't understand Cooper's selection policy. That shows how well thought of he even was in the previous background staff.

It does, but the management team he served under didn't pick him most of the time either, even when fit. As for Stowell's two games when he was actually in charge, Riccy was an 85th minute sub in one (despite him playing half the game and scoring in his previous game), and came off in the 58th in the other. And our performances back then were way worse than they are now, whether you're willing to hold judgement on Cooper or not.

 

Like I say, if you asked me who the better player was, I'd give the same answer. But three years of recurring injuries in that role, his age, a poor pre-season, and the pressing need to play a more standard defensive unit than the one which had accommodated Riccy - very successfully, but at a lower level - means that it shouldn't be too hard to work this one out.

[pmcla26]

10 minutes ago, Marshall Cockney Fox said:

Presumably it can only be down to JJs pace. And Cooper is anxious about the CBs lack of it being exposed. There is no doubt JJ is quicker than Riccy. However, football brain and ability can mitigate against the 'pace issue'. 

 

If I'd seen JJ sprinting up the right flank on the overlap this season I'd say fair enough. But as he mostly plays like Danny Simpson i.e. deep lying RB. Why can't Riccy do that and bring his extra ability to the team at the same time?

Or he can invert like last season which means he has a better rest defence position than when JJ (or any full-back) is caught further up the flank - look at the transition Everton had for the DCL chance second half. 

[Leeds Fox]

On 18/09/2024 at 23:19, The whole world smiles said:

Cooper probably thinks James Justin is quicker and better defensively, he is also 26 where's Ricardo is 31 next month so there is a big money move left in JJ if he stays injury free and gets near his pre covid form where as that ship has sadly sailed for Ricardo.

 

You can disagree that he should be in the team, but if you claim you don't understand the logic behind it you are either dense or your just using it as another stick to beat the manager with.

 

The funny thing is if Ricardo had started the season in the team and not performed to a high level there would probably be "Justin Mystery" Threads.

I don’t think there’s much logic in thinking Cooper is playing Justin to facilitate a big money move. When in reality, if we don’t start picking up points sharpish, he’ll be out of a job.

 

I’m not saying we’d have been any better off with Ricardo in, but to have zero PL minutes so far, somethings up. 

[Collymore]

Best player on the pitch tonight by miles and didn't particularly play well.

 

Cooper is a ********* idiot. 

[goog]

12 minutes ago, Collymore said:

Best player on the pitch tonight by miles and didn't particularly play well.

 

Cooper is a ********* idiot. 

Was he? 

Bang average at best. 

 

Certainly 11 players on the other team were all better I would say. 

[Will1981]

maybe that will answer the mystery piss poor today like everyone bar Ward.

[Lambert09]

1 minute ago, Will1981 said:

maybe that will answer the mystery piss poor today like everyone bar Ward.

all that proves is that the manager has lost absolutely everyone. Can’t look at any individual and blame them when we look so void of any game plan.  

 

 

 

[Collymore]

48 minutes ago, goog said:

Was he? 

Bang average at best. 

 

Certainly 11 players on the other team were all better I would say. 

Oh no without a doubt. Without instructions of the bigger picture from cooper, he still went inside whilst retaining possession. Looked like the only one who looked like he believed in his ability and how to at least try to progress the ball while defend. That's my take. 

Edited 24 September 2024 by Collymore

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

I get that 'shit the bed' Cooper wouldn't want both his FBs pushing on. But why pick an ever regressing Thomas to be the advanced one. And leave talented, creative, progressive Riccy stuck in his own half. Reminded me of Pontus being asked not to play any footie, just harass the Brazilian instead. But at least that worked. 

 

Poor Riccy. 

[Tommy G]

1 hour ago, Collymore said:

Best player on the pitch tonight by miles and didn't particularly play well.

 

Cooper is a ********* idiot. 

Hmm I think it’s in vogue to plug Ricardo - he deserves to be in the team but let’s not pretend he was the best player on the pitch - he was bang average like rest and not just terrible like Thomas, Hamza, Soumare etc. He got skinned in the final 2 mins and made up for it with a last ditch tackle. 
 

Saying that, he should play instead of JJ. No one comes out with any credit tonight apart from Ward with the Pen saves. 

[iancognito]

It's alright saying he was average at best but if the guy comes in and benches you for all but the league cup you're hardly going to go out there and give an extra 10% Vs Walsall. If we go out in the next round Ricardo knows he's not got another game til January, same with 2 or 3 others. There's no motivation to perform when you know even a hat trick won't get you into the team on Saturday.

[Aleksz]

Anyone slating a bloke tonight that’s not played a minute of league football and is being horrendously misprofiled in his position needs to give their head a wobble.

[trabuch]

He's not being allowed to play his game. Cooper doesn't want him to go past the half way line. 

Edited 24 September 2024 by trabuch

[worthosoriginals]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

Hmm I think it’s in vogue to plug Ricardo - he deserves to be in the team but let’s not pretend he was the best player on the pitch - he was bang average like rest and not just terrible like Thomas, Hamza, Soumare etc. He got skinned in the final 2 mins and made up for it with a last ditch tackle. 
 

Saying that, he should play instead of JJ. No one comes out with any credit tonight apart from Ward with the Pen saves. 

And credit to cooper too for masterminding the victory.

 

[Bezzanator89]

58 minutes ago, Aleksz said:

Anyone slating a bloke tonight that’s not played a minute of league football and is being horrendously misprofiled in his position needs to give their head a wobble.

You can add Jordan f'ing Blackwell to that list based on tonight's Leicester Mercury rating.

 

Cooper has ruined him.

[Jimmy]

He didn't do much to impress Vs Walsall, not that anyone did except Bounonotte and towards the end Fatawu started to create.

 

I'm bored of everything being Cooper's fault as well Ricardo is an experienced international footballer play the game that's in front of you if it's on to go further forward do so, Hamza was deep enough to cover

[SafewayFox]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

He didn't do much to impress Vs Walsall, not that anyone did except Bounonotte and towards the end Fatawu started to create.

 

I'm bored of everything being Cooper's fault as well Ricardo is an experienced international footballer play the game that's in front of you if it's on to go further forward do so, Hamza was deep enough to cover

So a professional footballer who acts out the basic instructions from their apparently limited manager is the players fault now?

 

Ok, then 🤯

 

Numerous posts on here highlighted that Thomas was the FB asked to roam forward whilst Ricky was clearly instructed to offer the more defensive role.

 

Which even typing hurts to write….not sure what part of that is defendable for Cooper and down to Ricky.

[funkyrobot]

On 23/09/2024 at 13:42, inckley fox said:

It does, but the management team he served under didn't pick him most of the time either, even when fit. As for Stowell's two games when he was actually in charge, Riccy was an 85th minute sub in one (despite him playing half the game and scoring in his previous game), and came off in the 58th in the other. And our performances back then were way worse than they are now, whether you're willing to hold judgement on Cooper or not.

 

Like I say, if you asked me who the better player was, I'd give the same answer. But three years of recurring injuries in that role, his age, a poor pre-season, and the pressing need to play a more standard defensive unit than the one which had accommodated Riccy - very successfully, but at a lower level - means that it shouldn't be too hard to work this one out.

It works both ways! Justin has also suffered three years of recurring injuries and had a poor pre season AND has had a poor start to the season. Ricardo is the more intelligent footballer, a better dribbler and a more positive passer. Justin is more athletic and is better in the air. Neither are fabulous tacklers. Both have pros and cons but to completely give up on Ricardo (0 minutes in the prem after we continue to ship goals on our right) is very poor man management from Cooper. 

[CrazyKopCorner]

I thought Ricky was pretty good last night as well. 

 

He showed the only few real bits of real skill / guile with playing some lovely balls inside in to Midfield (particularly 1st half). 

 

2n half he supported Fatawu well who was our only threat 

 

 

[5waller5]

I think Ricky comes across as an intelligent and professional footballer. I’d imagine him to be a dream to coach - Quick to understand and implement instructions, a good grasp of tactics, ready to accept new ideas. All demonstrated by his new role last season.

 

Imagine having all those attributes going from a complex pivotal role in the team, to being benched by a supply teacher who doesn’t want you going past the halfway line!
 

I don’t we’ll see much of prime Ricky P with Cooper here!