Player revolt…

[Viva]

19 minutes ago, sylofox said:

You really are missing the point massively.

 

In 2015/16 season before a ball was kicked where did us and the bookies think we would finish?

 

Relegated 17th or 14th again.

 

Did we through 100m at it? No but we won it. Everyone of the established squads were valued way above ours.

 

But things fell into place

A team full of believers in what they were doing. A team that gave 110% every game. A team that fought for each other and the cause.

A manager happy to let them play the way they ended the previous season so well. One that supported the whole set up and treated the players like family.

 

As I said it's not squad value. It's what they give you and what the manager gives them.

We've seen glimpses of how they can play in a shackled defensive set up. None of us know as a team how they can play in a more open and counter attacking set up.

 

Going back to your first sentence we should be aiming for mid table or higher. Get it wrong you should still be in the prem. Aim for 17th and get it wrong and you're gone.

Oh come on, 2015/16 was a once in a lifetime event that no other club might experience. Last seasons Premier League and Championship tables were very closely aligned with squad values. 

What happens with your last sentence is we get through about three different managers this season when we are not in the top half. Expectations within the club and fans need to be realistic. I'm sure Cooper hasn't said to the players, I only want you to come 17th because that's the level you are, but the reality is that 17th would be a good season for us. 

[MGLCFC]

20 hours ago, Viva said:

17th would be a good season for us.

I totally agree - I'm just not that convinced Cooper is the man that can achieve this. It seems we've gone into every game with the aim of not losing, rather than trying to win. I accept some games the tactics need to be less expansive, but as an attacking threat we are poor at the moment. Whilst not conceding more than 2 goals in a game is satisfactory, this has been more due to poor finishing by the opposition, rather than a tight defending unit. For me the players look lost, and whilst Enzo's style didn't suite all fans, at least the players appeared to understand their roles and what the system was. I can't fathom out what we are trying to achieve at present and I think this shows from the frustration of the players on the pitch at times. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we'll get heavily beaten by someone, sooner rather than later, and I fear any confidence we have at present will quickly drain from the team. 

Edited 27 September 2024 by MGLCFC

[inckley fox]

3 hours ago, guest123 said:

What’s this nonsense yet again with the forest connection? Only ever mentioned by people backing cooper. And as for backing the team, Walsall was the first game I’ve not done due to being away, the team have more than been supported in each game. Wobble that head please son

Firstly, you're right in that fans at the game have been generally supportive. I've always gone to pains to say that we can call for a manager's head all we like on here or in the pub - it doesn't translate to being a negative or a 'bad' supporter. I'm also very sceptical about Cooper, but just feel we need to see how the next 5-7 games go before rushing to a decision, based on what we've seen. So we're not completely at odds with each other, I just don't get the feeling yet that all is definitely lost.

 

However I'd add two things. One, that the Forest connection has definitely been brought up by more than a few of his critics. On here and beyond! Of course you're also right that his supporters use that, or comments about his looks, to undermine the argument against him. Second, that we all know how widespread discontent can become contagious. I'd just urge people to do what you do and try to keep it from the terraces (for a few weeks, at least...).

[Crinklyfox]

If the players don't believe that Cooper is a competent manager then either he changes this very quickly or it's best that he goes.

 

When a team has confidence in a manager, in whatever field, it's usually translated into performance.  A team without such confidence is likely to just go through the motions and underachieve.

 

We don't have time to spare - October will be a crucial month for us, fail badly and our chance of relegation will greatly increase.  

[Bourbon Fox]

9 hours ago, ozleicester said:

its funny when both sides of a debate use the same answer to disagree...

2015/16  

Ah, you must be referring the the highly improbable 5000-1 sporting miracle!

 

Let's rely on another one of those

[volpeazzurro]

7 hours ago, inckley fox said:

Firstly, you're right in that fans at the game have been generally supportive. I've always gone to pains to say that we can call for a manager's head all we like on here or in the pub - it doesn't translate to being a negative or a 'bad' supporter. I'm also very sceptical about Cooper, but just feel we need to see how the next 5-7 games go before rushing to a decision, based on what we've seen. So we're not completely at odds with each other, I just don't get the feeling yet that all is definitely lost.

 

However I'd add two things. One, that the Forest connection has definitely been brought up by more than a few of his critics. On here and beyond! Of course you're also right that his supporters use that, or comments about his looks, to undermine the argument against him. Second, that we all know how widespread discontent can become contagious. I'd just urge people to do what you do and try to keep it from the terraces (for a few weeks, at least...).

Of course people will mention Forest it'sinevitable!

 

However, don't judge people in the belief that it's because he was previously the manager of a 'supposed' arch enemy. We were very happy with O'Neil and Morgan weren't we!

 

Supporters are stupid. The biggest reason that they point at his time at Forest isn't rivalry based, it's more that appart from the great job he did there once in getting them promoted, it was clear that when he arrived in the Premiership, he was clearly out of his depth and they had to sack him eventually to avoid relegation!

 

Despite having had ample time out to recover and learn from his mistakes, he's merely repeating them, you only have to read some of the Forest supporters comments and then look back at his supposed tactics then and compare them to now to understand what's happening. He's incredibly limited and it's only natural for supporters to voice there opinions on a forum or at a game. Do you honestly believe that supporters being all happy clappy at the games is actually going to help? Will it turn Cooper into Guadiola? Unless the right players are picked, given reasonable tactics and game plan with meaningful substitutions at the right time then absolutely diddley squat is going to happen. Cooper absolutely should be put under pressure by supporters. Who knows, if there's any truth in the reports, the players might be very grateful!

[lestuhfox]

10 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Of course people will mention Forest it'sinevitable!

 

However, don't judge people in the belief that it's because he was previously the manager of a 'supposed' arch enemy. We were very happy with O'Neil and Morgan weren't we!

 

Supporters are stupid. The biggest reason that they point at his time at Forest isn't rivalry based, it's more that appart from the great job he did there once in getting them promoted, it was clear that when he arrived in the Premiership, he was clearly out of his depth and they had to sack him eventually to avoid relegation!

 

Despite having had ample time out to recover and learn from his mistakes, he's merely repeating them, you only have to read some of the Forest supporters comments and then look back at his supposed tactics then and compare them to now to understand what's happening. He's incredibly limited and it's only natural for supporters to voice there opinions on a forum or at a game. Do you honestly believe that supporters being all happy clappy at the games is actually going to help? Will it turn Cooper into Guadiola? Unless the right players are picked, given reasonable tactics and game plan with meaningful substitutions at the right time then absolutely diddley squat is going to happen. Cooper absolutely should be put under pressure by supporters. Who knows, if there's any truth in the reports, the players might be very grateful!

Out of his depth?

The season we went down and they stayed up they were everything we wernt.

They fought, they had desire, they battled and were direct.

Everything he is trying to do here and the fans are on his back after 3 draws and 2 2-1 defeats. 

Get behind him and our team.

We have a crucial 4 games after Arsenal of Bournemouth Soton Forest and Ipswich. 

This time 2 years ago we were getting dicked for 6 at Tottenham and Brighton.

[Beachyboy]

27 minutes ago, lestuhfox said:

Out of his depth?

The season we went down and they stayed up they were everything we wernt.

They fought, they had desire, they battled and were direct.

Everything he is trying to do here and the fans are on his back after 3 draws and 2 2-1 defeats. 

Get behind him and our team.

We have a crucial 4 games after Arsenal of Bournemouth Soton Forest and Ipswich. 

This time 2 years ago we were getting dicked for 6 at Tottenham and Brighton.

I can't believe people can't remember how bad we were 2 years ago with a better squad. This season's feels like 13/14 again rather than any comparisons to the following season, where we were able to ride the wave of momentum. That was a slug fest until the last 9 games where the shackles came off and that was the much lauded Pearson who had credit in the bank, it's no wonder an ex forest manager is getting pelters after a slow start. Enzo had stick last year for winning the league, I'm in the middle, we left the sacking of Rogers far far too long, who again had credit in the bank. Theres an old saying the league table isn't worth looking at too much before 10 games has been played, it's clear we will be in the bottom 6 all season, let's see where we are after 10 games. This is the same cooper that was able to beat us 4-1 in the cup as defending champions.

[CosbehFox]

In the Athletic now: so don’t think we can judge the validity of the source anymoren

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, lestuhfox said:

Out of his depth?

The season we went down and they stayed up they were everything we wernt.

They fought, they had desire, they battled and were direct.

Everything he is trying to do here and the fans are on his back after 3 draws and 2 2-1 defeats. 

Get behind him and our team.

We have a crucial 4 games after Arsenal of Bournemouth Soton Forest and Ipswich. 

This time 2 years ago we were getting dicked for 6 at Tottenham and Brighton.

 

You forgot to point out that we played in League 1 once too and should be grateful for things and stuff. 

[The boy Linacre]

2 hours ago, Beachyboy said:

I can't believe people can't remember how bad we were 2 years ago with a better squad. This season's feels like 13/14 again rather than any comparisons to the following season, where we were able to ride the wave of momentum. That was a slug fest until the last 9 games where the shackles came off and that was the much lauded Pearson who had credit in the bank, it's no wonder an ex forest manager is getting pelters after a slow start. Enzo had stick last year for winning the league, I'm in the middle, we left the sacking of Rogers far far too long, who again had credit in the bank. Theres an old saying the league table isn't worth looking at too much before 10 games has been played, it's clear we will be in the bottom 6 all season, let's see where we are after 10 games. This is the same cooper that was able to beat us 4-1 in the cup as defending champions.

Make the judgment by the Nov break, we'll have played Bournemouth at home, Ipswich & Soton away.

We have to be more attacking and he and we need to win SOME games in 90 mins, ideally in the League

[whoareyaaa]

I don’t mind Cooper as a bloke just think we can do a lot better, I’m just not a fan of his tactics and the coaching is probably the complete opposite to last season

[volpeazzurro]

13 hours ago, lestuhfox said:

Out of his depth?

The season we went down and they stayed up they were everything we wernt.

They fought, they had desire, they battled and were direct.

Everything he is trying to do here and the fans are on his back after 3 draws and 2 2-1 defeats. 

Get behind him and our team.

We have a crucial 4 games after Arsenal of Bournemouth Soton Forest and Ipswich. 

This time 2 years ago we were getting dicked for 6 at Tottenham and Brighton.

He stayed up by the skin of his teeth more to do with the inadequacies and misfortunes of others. He got sacked for good reason. He's repeating the same. We were getting 'dicked' 2yrs ago because we were being managed by another total inadequate who the board failed to sack way before he should have gone. Is it logical to just rinse and repeat? I don't think so!

[Plastik Man]

It's quite simple.

 

Listen to his interviews.

 

Listen to what the players say.

 

Watch our performances.

 

Look at his team selections, tactics and substitutions.

 

It's all there.

 

How can anyone derive any confidence our performances will improve?

 

Or that we will maximise the potential of the players we have?

 

He just doesn't have it. So let's get rid as soon as possible to give his successor the best chance possible.

 

Now, picking the right successor is another issue entirely. The club seem to insist on them having EPL experience, which doesn't bode well.  Brighton don't seem to have this problem!

[Chrysalis]

There is no revolt, people are so desperate on here to get him out.

[Chrysalis]

16 hours ago, lestuhfox said:

Out of his depth?

The season we went down and they stayed up they were everything we wernt.

They fought, they had desire, they battled and were direct.

Everything he is trying to do here and the fans are on his back after 3 draws and 2 2-1 defeats. 

Get behind him and our team.

We have a crucial 4 games after Arsenal of Bournemouth Soton Forest and Ipswich. 

This time 2 years ago we were getting dicked for 6 at Tottenham and Brighton.

Good luck in trying to get that sense out amongst this mob.

[ozleicester]

14 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

In the Athletic now: so don’t think we can judge the validity of the source anymoren

Just had a look and maybe i missed it.. but where is any story about the players revolting.. i saw a lot about fans revolting.. but nothing about the players?



Edit.. just found ths, which i assume is the part being highlighted.... from the Athletic..
....Sources close to the playing squad, kept anonymous to protect relationships, suggested some players are equally unclear about the identity of the team. There has been no lack of application during games, but execution has been the issue."

Still doesnt suggest "player revolt", but does show some flaws

Edited 28 September 2024 by ozleicester

[CrazyKopCorner]

3 hours ago, Plastik Man said:

It's quite simple.

 

Listen to his interviews.

 

Listen to what the players say.

 

Watch our performances.

 

Look at his team selections, tactics and substitutions.

 

It's all there.

 

How can anyone derive any confidence our performances will improve?

 

Or that we will maximise the potential of the players we have?

 

He just doesn't have it. So let's get rid as soon as possible to give his successor the best chance possible.

 

Now, picking the right successor is another issue entirely. The club seem to insist on them having EPL experience, which doesn't bode well.  Brighton don't seem to have this problem!

Unfortunately you are are spot on. 

 

Your eyes and ears do not deceive you and he has already made far too many errors of judgement (I can take the odd one or even a few but it really is multiple and every single single week) to be considered anything other than totally and utterly incompetent. 

 

Whatever he did elsewhere is meaningless and you must live in the present and he is making serious gaff after serious gaff and needs to go.

 

Some people are saying give him time but all you're going to get are more and more gaffs and I predict serious player and fan unrest. 

Edited 28 September 2024 by CrazyKopCorner

[grth2004]

There’s no club in the country where some players are not happy , some aren’t getting on the pitch or just not first choice and some players don’t want to play a certain way so nothing new. If we had Pep as manager some players wouldn’t be happy because of the same reasons. 

[VLC86]

7 hours ago, ozleicester said:

Just had a look and maybe i missed it.. but where is any story about the players revolting.. i saw a lot about fans revolting.. but nothing about the players?



Edit.. just found ths, which i assume is the part being highlighted.... from the Athletic..
....Sources close to the playing squad, kept anonymous to protect relationships, suggested some players are equally unclear about the identity of the team. There has been no lack of application during games, but execution has been the issue."

Still doesnt suggest "player revolt", but does show some flaws

If the players are talking to the press, does that not suggest a revolt?

 

Revolt- an attempt to end the authority of a person or body by rebelling.

[ronnup]

We know hes shit. So they do. 

[desertfox2]

On 27/09/2024 at 11:44, lestuhfox said:

Out of his depth?

The season we went down and they stayed up they were everything we wernt.

They fought, they had desire, they battled and were direct.

Everything he is trying to do here and the fans are on his back after 3 draws and 2 2-1 defeats. 

Get behind him and our team.

We have a crucial 4 games after Arsenal of Bournemouth Soton Forest and Ipswich. 

This time 2 years ago we were getting dicked for 6 at Tottenham and Brighton.

They did spent 160m on transfer fees alone and loads on wages too though that season. A lot of managers would fancy their chances at keeping a team up with those kind of resources and they barely survived. 

Edited 28 September 2024 by desertfox2
16th

[Wolfox]

Confirmation bias anyone?

[Claridge]

On 27/09/2024 at 08:44, lestuhfox said:

Out of his depth?

The season we went down and they stayed up they were everything we wernt.

They fought, they had desire, they battled and were direct.

Everything he is trying to do here and the fans are on his back after 3 draws and 2 2-1 defeats. 

Get behind him and our team.

We have a crucial 4 games after Arsenal of Bournemouth Soton Forest and Ipswich. 

This time 2 years ago we were getting dicked for 6 at Tottenham and Brighton.

Exactly we had a fair better squad on paper, but Cooper performed a miracle with Forest that year. Comparable with Pearson and the great escape.

[Lionator]

Some clubs/teams/players just need big characters in charge of them. It’s no slight on Cooper, but he’s not the right fit for this team/club at the moment.