Cifuentes OUT

[Eskay]

He's not what we need. He hasn't got what it takes to get us promoted. 

 

I got pelters in the first few weeks when I highlighted we were getting lucky and scoring worldies to win games. I also suggested that Abdul wasn't going to be consistent enough, especially when teams realised he's a major threat and doubled up on him. 

 

There is a major issue in our midfield. They can't rely on wingbacks for support. They can't rely on strikers for movement. None of them are actually particularly creative nor defensively solid. Barring JJ now and starting to see shoots from Ramsey .....having winks and Soumare or skipp etc does not help us. It's like having 4 Dennis Praets in the side. 

 

Our obsession with recruiting middle of the road midfielders has cost us. 

[Manc Fox J]

21 minutes ago, Richmondfox said:

I would play Page, Nelson and Monga who are known unknowns, rather than the likes of Ayew, Faes and Thomas where you know what they are going to do before they get the ball. Nothing they do is positive yet the manager lets them carry on every game. 

 

It has gone beyond having crap players, the manager is setting whatever team he puts out to fail.  The manager is void of any tactics or tricks or knows how to set them up to get the basics.
 

Not sure why after the first 15 minutes they switched to Okoli starting all the attacks out the back. We went to shit then because everything was then slow and sloppy.  He is unable to move with the ball and stutters before he passes, usually a slow long pass to put everyone else under pressure. After that we stopped making the quick attacks with Fatawu passing into space for JJ to cross. 

 

Enzo ball was dull when it was passing around the back for the sake of it, but the players were drilled when they attacked. 

The reason we switched to Okoli starting the attacks was because Millwall pressed Vesty, in the knowledge that Okoli's passing is utter pony. We had absolutely no solution other than to let Caleb try and start the attacks. The fact we can be nullified that easily is really worrying. If we're going to persist with playing out from the back, I think we really need to explore Vesty and Nelson as an option as both can pass a ball without giving it away or putting our midfielders under pressure immediately with a loose pass. Nelson's relative lack of pace alongside Vesty's immobility aside!

[Richmondfox]

Just now, Manc Fox J said:

The reason we switched to Okoli starting the attacks was because Millwall pressed Vesty, in the knowledge that Okoli's passing is utter pony. We had absolutely no solution other than to let Caleb try and start the attacks. The fact we can be nullified that easily is really worrying. If we're going to persist with playing out from the back, I think we really need to explore Vesty and Nelson as an option as both can pass a ball without giving it away or putting our midfielders under pressure immediately with a loose pass. Nelson's relative lack of pace alongside Vesty's immobility aside!

If our manager had half a tactic in him he would’ve got JV to pass the ball to Winks quicker and got Jakob to play it quicker. 

 

Instead we spent 70 minutes watching a professional make the windows shut down music before he passed to the opposition. 

[markko]

I saw a little bit of the game yesterday but watched all of the Hull game. In the first half we were dreadful. I have been surprised at how well we have been doing. I expected a bit more of the last two games. We have a lot of players who don't want to be here but that we can't shift. I would consider taking them out of the first team as they are a sticking plaster. Daka has not scored in 34 games now. Just take that in. We have a striker who has not scored for nearly a season. Ayew gets a lot of stick but he does what he is good at reasonably  well. I would give the new lad a bit longer but we have to get a striker in. We need to be able to score goals. Soumare, Faes, Daka, Winks will all he gone in the summer and we will have to rebuild. They were all poor on Tuesday and if that is trying well.....

[murphy]

17 minutes ago, Manc Fox J said:

The reason we switched to Okoli starting the attacks was because Millwall pressed Vesty, in the knowledge that Okoli's passing is utter pony. We had absolutely no solution other than to let Caleb try and start the attacks. The fact we can be nullified that easily is really worrying. If we're going to persist with playing out from the back, I think we really need to explore Vesty and Nelson as an option as both can pass a ball without giving it away or putting our midfielders under pressure immediately with a loose pass. Nelson's relative lack of pace alongside Vesty's immobility aside!

Isn't the point of having a ball playing centre-half, to beat the press? 

[ian__marshall]

44 minutes ago, CloudFox said:

The disappearance of Page and Nelson is damning.

The alarm bells were ringing at the start of the season when he completely ignored Alves who had played well in the Championship last season despite playing in a side that suffered relegation. 

[MaidstoneFox]

A little reasoning...

 

We have only lost 3 games. Only Cov, Middlesborough and Bristol City have lost less.

It's a long season with many ups and downs.

The international break came at a bad time for us and we had players flying everywhere for their national sides.

If we win our next game we could be back in 6th place.

He needs time and transfer windows to sort this squad out and a clearer picture might emerge after January.

It could get worse before it gets better

[Mapperleyfox]

What is happening on the pitch bears little resemblance to what he says in interviews. Either the players simply can’t or won’t execute his game plan (where is this pressing he talks about) or he’s a total bullsh*tter…

Currently I’m not convinced on him.

[DezFox]

3 minutes ago, Mapperleyfox said:

What is happening on the pitch bears little resemblance to what he says in interviews. Either the players simply can’t or won’t execute his game plan (where is this pressing he talks about) or he’s a total bullsh*tter…

Currently I’m not convinced on him.

I agree with this completely. If he had done an honest interview it should say that “I’m a likeable bloke and a good talker, however I have no real football philosophy and will pick my favourites, even if they massively under perform  every single week despite what I say and what is best for the club long term”

[funkyrobot]

If we are honest when it comes to the youngsters coming through, the only one who we can feel aggrieved with his lack of first team action is Ben Nelson, having had a good loan at this level last year. There has to be a reason that we are not aware of why he isn’t - whether that’s him being too similar to Vesty or another reason we can only speculate. 
 

You could argue that due to the form of Thomas,  Aluko can feel unlucky but he’s surely behind VK in the pecking order, particularly as my understanding is that he is right footed and plays predominantly on the right or right central at u23 level. It’s a big ask to play him on his less confident side at a level he has barely played as of yet. 
 

With Page, he just isn’t yet at the level of Rambo or Ayew in the 10 role yet. He showed flashes but didn’t look ready in his two games and that’s understandable considering his age. Personally I’d have him on the bench over Skipp as we have Soumare but the likelihood Skipp doesn’t get game time anyway.  
 

Monga has shown that he’s much better as an impact sub and not ready to start regularly. I’d expect Mavididi to start Saturday and Monga making a difference when Mavididi tires. Silko has been on the bench and I thought he did ok as cover for Fatawu (no worse than McAteer was) and should continue in that role.

 

As for Evans, he’s surely close to getting some bench time despite his age (an injury to Daka or Carrenza would put him in the spotlight.) But based on what we saw in pre season he’s probably not ready. 

[Manc Fox J]

22 minutes ago, murphy said:

Isn't the point of having a ball playing centre-half, to beat the press? 

In theory yes, but Vesty's been doubled up on for 70 mins yesterday which is asking a lot of a ball playing centre half.

[CloudFox]

29 minutes ago, MaidstoneFox said:

A little reasoning...

 

We have only lost 3 games. Only Cov, Middlesborough and Bristol City have lost less.

It's a long season with many ups and downs.

The international break came at a bad time for us and we had players flying everywhere for their national sides.

If we win our next game we could be back in 6th place.

He needs time and transfer windows to sort this squad out and a clearer picture might emerge after January.

It could get worse before it gets better

You're perfectly right to state all these facts, and you're right, we need to keep these in mind.

 

My concern is they we have yet to put in a single full decent 45 minutes this season, let alone 90 minutes. And we seem to be getting worse, game by game. I'm not sure how we stop that rot between now and January.

[beepee1984]

17 minutes ago, MaidstoneFox said:

A little reasoning...

 

We have only lost 3 games. Only Cov, Middlesborough and Bristol City have lost less.

It's a long season with many ups and downs.

The international break came at a bad time for us and we had players flying everywhere for their national sides.

If we win our next game we could be back in 6th place.

He needs time and transfer windows to sort this squad out and a clearer picture might emerge after January.

It could get worse before it gets better

Also a little reasoning...

 

We have only won 1 of the last 8 games, Only Norwich have won less

We are now 25% into the season and going through a down - with no sign of any up

Another International break in November - are we going to win a game before that and then use it as excuse to lose afterwards

If we win our next game we could be back in 6th place (assuming Charlton lost to Swansea and all Preston, QPR and Hull don't win with Hull playing Norwich)

 

However despite all this I agree he needs time (just pointing out that sensible reasoning can be used to show just how poor we are too, but believe with this board it really makes no difference who the manager is) but don't expect a transfer window to sort this mess out

 

But for Marti to have a future he needs to show that the club has a way of playing - at this moment the team are playing clueless - we create nothing for a frontline that couldn't score even if we did create. The recent tactic is shoot on site and hope James/Fatawu can score 30 worldies a season. And if they can't throw a 3-4-3 formation for the last 10 minutes without actually looking likely to create anything

We look like conceding everytime we are asked to defend, but we will go out and do the same week in and week out. From 11 games, we've played decent in what 2 and some players are getting a free ticket to start

 

It is going to get worse before it gets better, we'll be looking at selling in January and still won't have funds to bring anyone in and realistically we need 6.5 players just to make a starting 11. (Counting Ricci, Winks, James & Fatawu as players who are the players are 11 should be based around) and sacking Marti won't help our finances

 

 

[CWLCFC]

Was desperate for it to work out with him but 1 win in two months in the championship is nowhere near what this squad should be doing, albeit I do think the squad is overrated.

[Fox92]

Just now, CWLCFC said:

Was desperate for it to work out with him but 1 win in two months in the championship is nowhere near what this squad should be doing, albeit I do think the squad is overrated.

Squad also has good players. Teams above us don’t have some of the players we can choose from at this level. We’re underachieving.

[Stormfox]

1 hour ago, Manc Fox J said:

The reason we switched to Okoli starting the attacks was because Millwall pressed Vesty, in the knowledge that Okoli's passing is utter pony. We had absolutely no solution other than to let Caleb try and start the attacks. The fact we can be nullified that easily is really worrying. If we're going to persist with playing out from the back, I think we really need to explore Vesty and Nelson as an option as both can pass a ball without giving it away or putting our midfielders under pressure immediately with a loose pass. Nelson's relative lack of pace alongside Vesty's immobility aside!

Nelson’s lack of pace?? 

[Claridge]

I don't blame Marti yet. Not his fault he inherited a load of rubbish and to late to really assess his players. Yes he could play a few more young players as they couldn't be any worse, but he has to consider the long term. Monga is obviously the best and has done amazing for a 16 yr old kid, but he is not that influential in matches . Marti has switched the players around to try and get a tune out of them , but we have about 20 who are the same bang average level and don't seem to try that hard. A succession of managers have struggled to motivate most of them, be a stupid decision to sack him as a new manager would face the same struggles with this squad. Apart from the money going up it would be real struggle and probably effect our youngsters (who are our only long term hope) development as it would be even harder to risk them in the prem. The sack every manager after 10 games brigade would demand instant results in the prem

[murphy]

54 minutes ago, Manc Fox J said:

In theory yes, but Vesty's been doubled up on for 70 mins yesterday which is asking a lot of a ball playing centre half.

I didn't watch it, but I don't get it.  I would have thought that would play straight into our hands.  Vestergaard receives the ball and has two forwards bearing down on him, he can take them out with a pass and create an overload.  I thought we wanted forwards to press us so that we could bypass them?   That's what all that wonderful sideways passing around the defence was all about.

 

I can understand teams doubling up on Fatawu since he is our only real threat but doubling up on Vestergaard too should leave them wide open.  I dunno.  

[winteriscoming]

Could it really be any worse if he had Nelson, Page, Evans at least on the bench?  
1 win in 8 suggests he should at least try it. 
Send a message to the senior players that he’s not to be messed with. 
Needs to back himself that it’s the right way to go. 
Seems pointless even putting this because you know Skipp, Faes, Daka and Soumare will be in the squad again for the next game. 

[HankMarvin]

1 hour ago, MaidstoneFox said:

A little reasoning...

 

We have only lost 3 games. Only Cov, Middlesborough and Bristol City have lost less.

It's a long season with many ups and downs

Spin 

Like saying only 9 teams have won less

[Chelmofox]

23 minutes ago, murphy said:

I didn't watch it, but I don't get it.  I would have thought that would play straight into our hands.  Vestergaard receives the ball and has two forwards bearing down on him, he can take them out with a pass and create an overload.  I thought we wanted forwards to press us so that we could bypass them?   That's what all that wonderful sideways passing around the defence was all about.

 

I can understand teams doubling up on Fatawu since he is our only real threat but doubling up on Vestergaard too should leave them wide open.  I dunno.  

JV is incapable of releasing the ball quickly, and Okoli is poor with the ball full stop. Alex Neil really did his homework on us.

 

There was a moment right of the end of the game when it felt we had a bit of urgency behind us. JV received the ball almost on the halfway line (he was the last defender). He held the ball for a moment. His natural instinct was to pass sideways or go back to the keeper, and he couldn't pass sideways. He travelled sideways a bit and resisted the urge to pass back to Jakub, and then ended up passing poorly out of play. 

 

He is good if he is given time and room and there is an opening available. He isn't able to switch up play quickly / create opportunities that aren't handed to him on a plate. 

 

Read somewhere on here that JV has been our best defender this season. It's a really poor take. He's been good when he is allowed to play to his strengths, but he is so easy to nullify and all the other teams just need to observe what Millwall did against him.

 

When he was appointed, I didn't think JV fitted Cifuentes style. JV's approach is to hold the ball and draw the attackers in to create space. But doing so slows down play and allows the opposition to get into any position they fancy (defensive or attacking). I felt Cifuentes wanted quicker transitions, which JV cannot offer. 

 

The big change Cifuentes needs is to drop JV and approach transitions in a different way.  Playing JV means we have to play a certain way. Maybe managers become obsessed with how good JV can be with his passing they forget the drawbacks, or in Cifuentes case, are willing to live with them for the time being. But it's got to change. 

Edited 26 October 2025 by Chelmofox

[Chelmofox]

17 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

Could it really be any worse if he had Nelson, Page, Evans at least on the bench?  
1 win in 8 suggests he should at least try it. 
Send a message to the senior players that he’s not to be messed with. 
Needs to back himself that it’s the right way to go. 
Seems pointless even putting this because you know Skipp, Faes, Daka and Soumare will be in the squad again for the next game. 

I don't think Evans is ready full stop. For me the 3 that must feature are Aluko, Page and Nelson. If Ramsey is injured Page has to come back, and possibly even start against Blackburn. Aluko has to be considered over Thomas / VK, or even just as rotation. We can't consider swapping Hamza / Riccy over to the left.

 

We have to drop Vestergaard. He forces us to play a certain style and i think managers become addicted to what he can do, rather than what he actually does (which is worse when you consider the obvious drawbacks). We should be less dependant on the CB's starting transitions and consider a different way to start attacks. Having this less reliance on CB's should mean that Nelson should become the obvious choice over JV. I think we should consider starting Faes and one of Okoli/Nelson (rotate the 3) and drop JV.

Edited 26 October 2025 by Chelmofox

[Mickyblueeyes]

He has some real pricks in his squad and continues to choose them. 
 

However, he is not getting the best out of quality players at this level. Fatawu, Winks, Mavididi, Monga, James, Ramsey - not many is any at this level has such a list of dangerous players. 
 

We are not creating chances. That’s a huge issue. 

[Tommy Fresh]

Remember a few weeks ago when some people kept saying but we've only lost once whilst we were drawing every week 

[Tommy Fresh]

Not gonna take him remotely seriously until he plays Ben Nelson