Cifuentes OUT

[winteriscoming]

32 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Unless he gets 7pts from the next 3 games prior to the International break and we start creating chances/pressing, can someone PLEASE make a compelling argument for keeping him around? 

You can just see us getting 2 draws at home then losing away to Norwich. 
We will waste 2 weeks of the international break and sack him the day before our next league game. The Leicester way. 

[whoareyaaa]

1 minute ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Right but the issue as I see it is simple, Ricardo is more than capable of overlapping on the wing, Jordan James is more than capable of underlapping centrally in place of Ndidi, Thomas/VK/Aluko are more than capable of overlapping Mavididi/Monga. 

Ndidi and KDH were not naturals in that role, but their movement created space for Mavididi, Fatawu and Vardy. 

Ndidi was a bang bang average 8, but his simple channel runs created space for the players that were great in their position. 
All Jordan James/Ricardo need to do is create space for Fatawu to run at 1 defender instead of 2-3. My point is less about the quality of the individuals making the runs, but the fact the runs were being made, Ndidi made absolutely loads of errors whenever he ran through the channel between Fatawu/Vardy, often his crossing at the byline was awful, but what he did do was create space and that's what we are desperate for. 

We don't need to specifically sign a number 8, we just need James to be instructed to make similar runs to create space. I know we are a downgrade on what Enzo had, but these professional footballers imo are perfectly capable of offering an overlap. 

KDH and Ndidi are better players than James and James can't do the work of two players, like I said the main reason that space was being created was because we had Vardy who defenders would be more worried about now we don't have that threat and two better players in KDH and Ndidi 

[cityfanlee23]

3 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

KDH and Ndidi are better players than James and James can't do the work of two players, like I said the main reason that space was being created was because we had Vardy who defenders would be more worried about now we don't have that threat and two better players in KDH and Ndidi 

Yeah I completely see your point and I do agree to an extent, even if we adopted Enzo's channel runs it would definitely be a downgrade on what we saw 23/24, my point is that imo it would still be an upgrade on the current system of praying fatawu can take on 3 players and put it in the top corner. 
I know that right now JJ is not producing the way that KDH was, but he's surely good enough to run in a straight line into a channel? That would create space for our strikers who up to now are constantly surrounded and never given support. 

Our strike force is pitiful right now, but we are certainly hampering them through the lack of space they are provided. 

Edited 27 October 2025 by cityfanlee23

[Chelmofox]

6 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Right but the issue as I see it is simple, Ricardo is more than capable of overlapping on the wing, Jordan James is more than capable of underlapping centrally in place of Ndidi, Thomas/VK/Aluko are more than capable of overlapping Mavididi/Monga. 

Ndidi and KDH were not naturals in that role, but their movement created space for Mavididi, Fatawu and Vardy. 

Ndidi was a bang bang average 8, but his simple channel runs created space for the players that were great in their position. 
All Jordan James/Ricardo need to do is create space for Fatawu to run at 1 defender instead of 2-3. My point is less about the quality of the individuals making the runs, but the fact the runs were being made, Ndidi made absolutely loads of errors whenever he ran through the channel between Fatawu/Vardy, often his crossing at the byline was awful, but what he did do was create space and that's what we are desperate for. 

We don't need to specifically sign a number 8, we just need James to be instructed to make similar runs to create space. I know we are a downgrade on what Enzo had, but these professional footballers imo are perfectly capable of offering an overlap. 

Riccardo overlapping - how many games before he's out injured for 3 months? He cant do that anymore. Its what killed him in the first place.

[cityfanlee23]

Just now, Chelmofox said:

Riccardo overlapping - how many games before he's out injured for 3 months? He cant do that anymore. Its what killed him in the first place.

It's a concern for sure, but with that said, we know Ricardo can play as an inverted full back and slot into midfield, there is nothing then stopping JJ from getting forward once Ricardo inverts. Again it's less about the quality of the player, more about the movement which forces open space. We just need a body to move somewhere, right now we are like statues at times. 

[whoareyaaa]

2 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

It's a concern for sure, but with that said, we know Ricardo can play as an inverted full back and slot into midfield, there is nothing then stopping JJ from getting forward once Ricardo inverts. Again it's less about the quality of the player, more about the movement which forces open space. We just need a body to move somewhere, right now we are like statues at times. 

James has been playing that role and it only works when Daka plays up front but he is not the same threat Vardy was and we don't have a Ndidi type to make runs with James (if you are reffering to him in the KDH role)

[StennBach]

In terms of whether or not he Cifuentes needs time, the question is whether we're seeing slow progress or if things are getting worse. I'd find it hard to argue that we look like we're making steady improvement week in week out with the current system/rotation of players.

[cityfanlee23]

8 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

James has been playing that role and it only works when Daka plays up front but he is not the same threat Vardy was and we don't have a Ndidi type to make runs with James (if you are reffering to him in the KDH role)

I have seen James make the run a couple of times and it's been quite effective with him getting the ball in dangerous areas, my issue is it happens nowhere near frequently enough and often too late. We need to do it more often with multiple players making those channel runs such as Thomas or Ramsey, but we also need to move the ball quicker. 

Rangers yesterday moved the ball so much quicker under Rohl than under RM and although they didn't play incredibly well, they were pulling Kilmarnock all over the place at times, completely different level of opponent vs championship squads obviously, but the movement of rangers was pulling the opponents out of position constantly because of the pace. 
One big issue we have now even more than under Enzo, is we don't seem to have the composure or confidence to move the ball between positions quickly, which this system heavily relies on. 
I hate this style with a passion but I get it, you move the ball and force the opponent to tire themselves out chasing, inevitably creating space. But this only works if the opponent has to do more than a light jog, a huge problem we have, is we hit a team on the break with Fatawu, he gets doubled up on with little support, so he pauses for 3-4 seconds, passes it back to Ricardo, who then looks around, plays it to winks in the middle, who passes it to vestergard, who then either passes it to Thomas or finally passes to Mavididi, and suddenly our counter attack is faced with a deep block with everyone behind the ball. 

I can't remember the last time that we got the ball from wing to wing in less than 3 passes and actually dragged the opponent out of position or made them scramble to get across the pitch, we take 9-10 passes to get the ball across to the other wing. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

49 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Where did I call them saviours? They are decent players at this level, that's what I said, and any decent manager would get something out of them. The way we play, the style, all from the manager is pathetic. 

And I'm saying you can't guarantee that with the player flaws I highlighted.

 

 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Chelmofox said:

Did Robins achieve it after 12 games in the Championship? It took him time.

A better comparison is managers currently doing better than Cifuentes who were appointed in the summer as well. But what I'd be keen as well to try and establish is in the past managers who started poorly at a newly relegated club and went on to turn it around. 

[Chelmofox]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

A better comparison is managers currently doing better than Cifuentes who were appointed in the summer as well. But what I'd be keen as well to try and establish is in the past managers who started poorly at a newly relegated club and went on to turn it around. 

I still think its really early, aleit underwhelming, days. Win the next 2 home games, and things might feel back on track. 

 

Unless you are nailing it, the Championship can be very streaky, as we found when we hit poor form under Enzo. I still don't expect Coventry to keep up their streak, and Middleborough are now 10th in the 6 game form guide. 

[Ric Flair]

18 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

I still think its really early, aleit underwhelming, days. Win the next 2 home games, and things might feel back on track. 

 

Unless you are nailing it, the Championship can be very streaky, as we found when we hit poor form under Enzo. I still don't expect Coventry to keep up their streak, and Middleborough are now 10th in the 6 game form guide. 

1 win in 8 games however you cut it is appalling. Whilst it's possible good form will come, the underlying stats the entire time he has been here have concerned me. We don't create enough and we give up a lot of high quality chances to the opposition so over time that'll result in failure which you could suggest we are now seeing hence the relegation form over 8 games.

[Tommy Fresh]

31 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

A better comparison is managers currently doing better than Cifuentes who were appointed in the summer as well. But what I'd be keen as well to try and establish is in the past managers who started poorly at a newly relegated club and went on to turn it around. 

Farke maybe? Although he had history on his side of being good at this level

[Muzzy_no7]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

1 win in 8 games however you cut it is appalling. Whilst it's possible good form will come, the underlying stats the entire time he has been here have concerned me. We don't create enough and we give up a lot of high quality chances to the opposition so over time that'll result in failure which you could suggest we are now seeing hence the relegation form over 8 games.

This is a very good point Ric so naturally it will likely go above many’s heads on here. 

[Lambert09]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

1 win in 8 games however you cut it is appalling. Whilst it's possible good form will come, the underlying stats the entire time he has been here have concerned me. We don't create enough and we give up a lot of high quality chances to the opposition so over time that'll result in failure which you could suggest we are now seeing hence the relegation form over 8 games.

100%, we were getting better results than we deserved and the stats rarely lie. we’ve been performing as a bottom half championship side 

[Les-TA-Jon]

1 hour ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Unless he gets 7pts from the next 3 games prior to the International break and we start creating chances/pressing, can someone PLEASE make a compelling argument for keeping him around? 

• Because the current iteration of the regime has demonstrated no real skill in identifying or attracting obviously better managerial candidates
• Because whilst we have PSR troubles and looming points deductions there might be an acceptance we're not going up this season
• Because there might be a longer term plan to accept rebuilding in the Championship - and that expectations in the meantime are lower
• Because Top is too busy with polo / becoming the interim CEO to worry about rocking the boat on the football side of things
• Because we might not be able to afford a managerial change

For clarity - I'm coming at that from the perspective of those actually making the decisions, rather than people on this forum who seem to want players dropped and managers sacked in a punitive, reactionary way rather than as part of any larger plan or strategy. 

 

And for what it's worth, I've always been incredibly neutral towards Cifuentes and he's done nothing either way so far to knock me off the fence - but that's probably also to do with the wider malaise the club finds itself in. 

[cruzFOX]

Well Marti is ne in a race against time to figure it out and get this team back on track or we will be out of sight at the wrong end of the table by Christmas. The trouble is we are expecting some players like Thomas, Daka, sounare, skipp etc to improve drastically when we’ve not seen that in such a long time or at all. Like praying for miracles. Did Marti do his homework and wonder why certain players have struggled and why they are still here?

[lcfc_forever]

5 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Stolarczk

 

Ricardo

Nelson

Souttar when fit (Okoli until then)

Aluko

 

Winks

James

 

Fatawu

Ramsay

Evans/Monga

 

Mavididi

 

I'd try Mavididi centrally with Evans taking up a wide role who can interchange. One thing that Evans is very good at too is physical duels so he will track back and cover his full back. People may be concerned with Aluko and Evans as a pairing but it could be a fluid front three that depending on opponents and how the game is going might need a shift to get the balance of defence and attack right.

I like it except we lack a ball-winner in midfield - teams outmuscle us and you can see it's not Winks' game to compete that way by the penalty he gave away.

We struggle when teams press up high on our midfield, effectively taking Winks again out of the game. We really miss Ndidi, and you can see why playing Soumare makes sense in theory but in practice, he's too lazy. Skipp would be the alternative but his confidence is very low leaving Hamza . 

[Chelmofox]

6 minutes ago, cruzFOX said:

Well Marti is ne in a race against time to figure it out and get this team back on track or we will be out of sight at the wrong end of the table by Christmas. The trouble is we are expecting some players like Thomas, Daka, sounare, skipp etc to improve drastically when we’ve not seen that in such a long time or at all. Like praying for miracles. Did Marti do his homework and wonder why certain players have struggled and why they are still here?

Marti didnt buy these players. He's inherited them and has tried to get a tune out of them. Skipp and Soumare in particular should excel at this level, but they are both player like dog turds. Both have pretty much been dropped as well do you cant blame him for them. He clearly doesnt fancy Daka either. And Thomas has pretty much picked himself after we sold JJ and VK was injured (and shite too).

 

He has no viable alternatives really, other than hoping the academy boys can pipe up. But even then we aren't getting anywhere with the kids for the time being. 

[AKCJ]

42 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

A better comparison is managers currently doing better than Cifuentes who were appointed in the summer as well. But what I'd be keen as well to try and establish is in the past managers who started poorly at a newly relegated club and went on to turn it around. 

Liam Manning (Norwich) - Doing a horrendous job.

Ryan Mason (WBA) - Probably middle of the road. Exactly what everyone would have expected. Some good results and some bad.

Paula Pezzolano (Watford) - Already sacked.

Sergei Jakirovic (Hull) - Shaky start but they've recovered well. He's doing a good job.

Will Still (Southampton) - Real nightmare there to be honest but I think we're on the same path.

Gerhard Struber (Bristol City) - Doing really well and playing exciting football.

Rob Edwards (Middlesbrough) - Exceeding expectations quite dramatically.

Ruben Selles (Sheffield Utd) - Absolute disaster. Already sacked.

Julian Stephan (QPR) - Similar to Ryan Mason at WBA but more positive.

Henrik Pedersen (Sheffield Wednesday) - Probably doing better than anyone would have expected but they're still rock bottom and would still be there without the points deduction.

 

 

To answer your second question. Hilariously, the only one that comes to mind is Russell Martin at Southampton. They were 15th after 8 games and an awful pre-season but then went on a 22 game unbeaten run. Unfortunately for them they were against 3 of the best sides the Championship has ever had and would otherwise have likely gone up automatically.

 

 

[Stadt]

At QPR, first season he went 12-7-10

Second season 13-14-18

 

At Hammarby 1.87 ppg first season 

Second season 1.47

 

That doesn't suggest he just needs time, averages almost half point a game worse off in his second season.

[Stadt]

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

Liam Manning (Norwich) - Doing a horrendous job.

Ryan Mason (WBA) - Probably middle of the road. Exactly what everyone would have expected. Some good results and some bad.

Paula Pezzolano (Watford) - Already sacked.

Sergei Jakirovic (Hull) - Shaky start but they've recovered well. He's doing a good job.

Will Still (Southampton) - Real nightmare there to be honest but I think we're on the same path.

Gerhard Struber (Bristol City) - Doing really well and playing exciting football.

Rob Edwards (Middlesbrough) - Exceeding expectations quite dramatically.

Ruben Selles (Sheffield Utd) - Absolute disaster. Already sacked.

Julian Stephan (QPR) - Similar to Ryan Mason at WBA but more positive.

Henrik Pedersen (Sheffield Wednesday) - Probably doing better than anyone would have expected but they're still rock bottom and would still be there without the points deduction.

 

 

To answer your second question. Hilariously, the only one that comes to mind is Russell Martin at Southampton. They were 15th after 8 games and an awful pre-season but then went on a 22 game unbeaten run. Unfortunately for them they were against 3 of the best sides the Championship has ever had and would otherwise have likely gone up automatically.

 

 

Stephan is doing well 

20th

18th (Cifuentes arrived part way through 

15th 

 

Currently 9th

 

He's been very good in France and certainly a better appointment than Marti would have been. Rudkin has never heard of him though despite him being Rennes' manager when we played them 

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, Stadt said:

Stephan is doing well 

20th

18th (Cifuentes arrived part way through 

15th 

 

Currently 9th

 

He's been very good in France and certainly a better appointment than Marti would have been. Rudkin has never heard of him though despite him being Rennes' manager when we played them 

QPR and WBA are the two in the top half with a negative goal difference.

 

They're 3 points clear from 15th and in their last match they lost to Derby with 1 shot on target. Long way to go.

 

I think they'll finish bang in mid table. Expected goals has them 13th.

[mozartfox]

This is what I admire about FT ,  there are never any over reactions.     

[WoodyFox]

2 hours ago, cruzFOX said:

Well Marti is ne in a race against time to figure it out and get this team back on track or we will be out of sight at the wrong end of the table by Christmas. The trouble is we are expecting some players like Thomas, Daka, sounare, skipp etc to improve drastically when we’ve not seen that in such a long time or at all. Like praying for miracles. Did Marti do his homework and wonder why certain players have struggled and why they are still here?

It really is staggering that the last three managers we've had seem to have had no prior knowledge of how poor these players are and worse still don't recognise it after watching them week in week out... I know it's been said elsewhere but Soumare and Daka should have been done the first time we got relegated and never thought we'd see Luke Thomas again when he got shipped off to Sheff U.