Wes Burns (signed, official)

[Benji]

Bit surprised by the negativity.  My first thought was good solid signing.  Appreciate the nervousness of falling into an Ayew etc mistake but the squad at the moment in my mind lacks a striker or two and a bit of promotion experience.  These two signings would look to address that.  
 

This is going to be another long hard season, against teams that will mostly defend and we’ll be on away pitches that (particularly during the winter) will cut up.  We need a few characters to drag us through games that aren’t going our way and him and Chaplin were part of an Ipswich team that scored a lot of late goals.  Not saying it should be at the detriment of giving minutes to the young players - there will be a lot of game time available particularly when the injuries inevitably start.

[Sooper Steve's shin]

54 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

In all seriousness, given we get advances from Macquarie for future transfer fees owed I can't see how we take players as down payment when the time comes to pay us the yearly installment. Imagine packaging up Wes Burns to send in the post to Macquarie, they'd be delighted.

The loans from Macquarie are just for liquidity, I don't believe they have this big impact on our overall financial picture that everyone seems to think. They are secured on future transfer instalments or TV/parachute payments, but we presumably either structure them to pay off in more manageable amounts each month/year or the bank takes the full amount from the relevant income at the end of the term. There will be a charge for it, but I don't see it as any sort of trick or major debt issue. It's similar to a standard consumer mortgage where the bank effectively advances you the cost of your home to help you buy it and then you pay them off in manageable amounts over X number of years (plus an interest fee). If you don't pay, you forfeit the house and the bank sells it to recover their money. You don't repay them by sending a few bricks or a door every month!

[winteriscoming]

So he’s just signed a 1 year contract with Ipswich. 

Soon to be turning 32 and recent struggles with injuries so expect us to offer him at least a 3 year deal. 
This club will never learn. 

[supernuk]

4 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

Very good team for this level

Where I can see where you are coming from an injury to the one Striker at the club and we are bang in trouble, same could be said for CBS

[filbertway]

3 minutes ago, Benji said:

Bit surprised by the negativity.  My first thought was good solid signing.  Appreciate the nervousness of falling into an Ayew etc mistake but the squad at the moment in my mind lacks a striker or two and a bit of promotion experience.  These two signings would look to address that.  
 

This is going to be another long hard season, against teams that will mostly defend and we’ll be on away pitches that (particularly during the winter) will cut up.  We need a few characters to drag us through games that aren’t going our way and him and Chaplin were part of an Ipswich team that scored a lot of late goals.  Not saying it should be at the detriment of giving minutes to the young players - there will be a lot of game time available particularly when the injuries inevitably start.

Sounds ideal for a chap that's not long back from a year out with a knee injury  

 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

He was great for me on FIFA about 10 years ago 😜 

[lcfc sheff]

Just now, supernuk said:

Where I can see where you are coming from an injury to the one Striker at the club and we are bang in trouble, same could be said for CBS

Where I can see where you’re coming from, we still have time to sign another striker! 

[Rubbersoul]

I hope Hutchinson sticks around to be an option. Feels like Evans will end up on loan 

[LestaLad]

Really surprised by the negativity here. We’re in league 1, Burns could be playing championship and some of their fans seem to think even PL level. 

A fast, direct winger with experience of getting promoted which is what we need above anything. You can’t rely on unproven young players to do that. 

[dmayne7]

10 minutes ago, Danno said:

McCarthy 

Joseph Souttar Okoli McFarlane

Braybrooke

Chaplin Cullen  
Burns Bristric Watson? 

 

Grim to look at. Not because it's not a good team at this level (should clearly win the league) but because just a few days ago that would have included; Nelson, Page, Alves, Otchere. Obviously Nelson injured/likely to have gone and Otchere now out on loan but if Page and Alves are not absolutely key players this year, then the only shoot of positivity is completely gone. Just means we're going to be stuck in this mire for good by having players not good enough for the next level who are on massive wages

[fkas]

3 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

Grim to look at. Not because it's not a good team at this level (should clearly win the league) but because just a few days ago that would have included; Nelson, Page, Alves, Otchere. Obviously Nelson injured/likely to have gone and Otchere now out on loan but if Page and Alves are not absolutely key players this year, then the only shoot of positivity is completely gone. Just means we're going to be stuck in this mire for good by having players not good enough for the next level who are on massive wages

Lot of games to play this season, we'll need to rotate.

[Les-TA-Jon]

Feels like it could be a shrewd signing or BDCR 2.0

 

Hard to tell. 

[Sooper Steve's shin]

53 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I could talk all day about this. I so badly want new ownership but for that to happen we either need Top to be willing to sell us for a cut price deal or to find an owner who is willing to see past the chaos and losses and trouser up a big amount on top of that to get us but then not be reckless when they own us. 

 

I think the passage of time for any of this to happen runs to next summer where we'll need said tens of millions in player sales to keep ticking over and even ignoring that, my vision for this club has always been to do things differently and priority 1 is team is awash with home grown players produced in our academy. Don't want to hear excuses about you can't do it blah blah blah. 

 

Why would Top sell for a cut price? He/his family/KP have invested a fair amount, including writing off loans. They could have sold for a major profit after we won the league or maybe they took a slice of that pie; they probably got significant value in publicity and prestige from their association with us at that time if nothing else. But as we drop down, there seems to be less sense (from a business perspective) in KP letting us go at a below-market valuation when they might think "we've done it once, we can do it again" in terms of getting us at least up to the PL.

 

To be honest, what is our value anyway? I am not sure how football clubs are valued apart from assets (land and facilities probably more so than players, whose value is much more subjective) and revenues (ours will have dipped this year, but with the right investment could jump back to Champ or PL levels if we get ourselves promoted). Regardless of what we think about our present situation, we would still probably be looked on as a club with the facilities and structure to be playing at a higher level - the "sleeping giant" with potential that would be attractive - but maybe we haven't been sleeping long enough that we'd be available for a real bargain. It's probably why the Saudi sheikh has been rumoured to be looking at Derby; they've been down a lot longer than us and their value will have dropped off.

 

I'm also interested in why you think we will need tens of millions in player sales next year? We've had a decent chunk of wedge in this summer, our operating costs should be a lot lower in L1 this year (wage reductions + younger and cheaper first teamers replacing some of the more expensive talent) and it seems to me that the financial strife we have had in the last few years has been from spending over our means according to the EFL and FPL rules. The model of one or two big player sales per season kept us up to speed for a few years while we chased the dream in the Premier League, but only after we had the title-winning success. If we readjust expectations and go back to the model that the likes of Brighton have since adopted and now overtaken us, I think we have our place (until the rules change again).

[Benji]

14 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Sounds ideal for a chap that's not long back from a year out with a knee injury  

 

Yeh but to be fair most decent players in their 30s have had one or two serious injuries.  It might not pay off he might get injured again first game, but so might any new signing with no recent history of one.

[AKCJ]

"Who knows, who cares" on a Leicester City fan forum  **** me we are doomed. Some of you actually want us to go bust I swear

[Ric Flair]

26 minutes ago, Will1981 said:

I remember us signing a right winger a while back you thought would be the 2nd coming of Christ who turned out to be utter garbage.

 

So everyone should put money on Burns being League 1 POTS this season.

I also said Winks, Coady, Ayew, Reid and Skipp would be horrendous signings and they all were. 

[Torten]

[Ric Flair]

6 minutes ago, Sooper Steve's shin said:

Why would Top sell for a cut price? He/his family/KP have invested a fair amount, including writing off loans. They could have sold for a major profit after we won the league or maybe they took a slice of that pie; they probably got significant value in publicity and prestige from their association with us at that time if nothing else. But as we drop down, there seems to be less sense (from a business perspective) in KP letting us go at a below-market valuation when they might think "we've done it once, we can do it again" in terms of getting us at least up to the PL.

 

To be honest, what is our value anyway? I am not sure how football clubs are valued apart from assets (land and facilities probably more so than players, whose value is much more subjective) and revenues (ours will have dipped this year, but with the right investment could jump back to Champ or PL levels if we get ourselves promoted). Regardless of what we think about our present situation, we would still probably be looked on as a club with the facilities and structure to be playing at a higher level - the "sleeping giant" with potential that would be attractive - but maybe we haven't been sleeping long enough that we'd be available for a real bargain. It's probably why the Saudi sheikh has been rumoured to be looking at Derby; they've been down a lot longer than us and their value will have dropped off.

 

I'm also interested in why you think we will need tens of millions in player sales next year? We've had a decent chunk of wedge in this summer, our operating costs should be a lot lower in L1 this year (wage reductions + younger and cheaper first teamers replacing some of the more expensive talent) and it seems to me that the financial strife we have had in the last few years has been from spending over our means according to the EFL and FPL rules. The model of one or two big player sales per season kept us up to speed for a few years while we chased the dream in the Premier League, but only after we had the title-winning success. If we readjust expectations and go back to the model that the likes of Brighton have since adopted and now overtaken us, I think we have our place (until the rules change again).

Because I am presuming, they are unable/unwilling to put any more serious money in that will be needed to keep running us. So if we aren't sold by the time the parachute payments run out, then what? 

[Sooper Steve's shin]

8 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

Grim to look at. Not because it's not a good team at this level (should clearly win the league) but because just a few days ago that would have included; Nelson, Page, Alves, Otchere. Obviously Nelson injured/likely to have gone and Otchere now out on loan but if Page and Alves are not absolutely key players this year, then the only shoot of positivity is completely gone. Just means we're going to be stuck in this mire for good by having players not good enough for the next level who are on massive wages

If Nelson is fit, he plays. Otchere has had a good pre-season, but enough to rely on him as our main striker? And if we bought someone else, it hinders his development just to keep him as sub. That said, I hope we have at least two strikers lined up now we've let him go. Page and Alves definitely step up into the first team squad, which neither of them have in prior seasons so they are still on track - but a deeper squad gives them a bit more competition and they will get their chances to show what they can do. For any of our youth players, if we throw them in too early and they struggle with the pace or physicality or mentality of constant L1 football then we've probably set them back more than helped them. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see all of those you mentioned become our next generation of talent but it has to be managed.

[HankMarvin]

At least we are addressing the lack of hight issues.

 

 

 

👀

 

 

[HankMarvin]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Because I am presuming, they are unable/unwilling to put any more serious money in that will be needed to keep running us. So if we aren't sold by the time the parachute payments run out, then what? 

Don’t get too attached to any decent youngsters 

[Finnegan]

8 minutes ago, Sooper Steve's shin said:

Why would Top sell for a cut price? He/his family/KP have invested a fair amount, including writing off loans.

 

I assume @Ric Flair means cut by Top's current valuation. 

 

The flip side of your question is why would anyone buy a club with such insane overheads, debt, lack of squad and league position? 

 

Top has to drop his asking price a lot from where it seems to be currently. 

 

And why he needs to sell? Because he probably can't actually afford to own the club anymore and it's become a financial liability to him and KP. 

 

[CosbehFox]

11 minutes ago, Sooper Steve's shin said:

Why would Top sell for a cut price? He/his family/KP have invested a fair amount, including writing off loans. They could have sold for a major profit after we won the league or maybe they took a slice of that pie; they probably got significant value in publicity and prestige from their association with us at that time if nothing else. But as we drop down, there seems to be less sense (from a business perspective) in KP letting us go at a below-market valuation when they might think "we've done it once, we can do it again" in terms of getting us at least up to the PL.

 

To be honest, what is our value anyway? I am not sure how football clubs are valued apart from assets (land and facilities probably more so than players, whose value is much more subjective) and revenues (ours will have dipped this year, but with the right investment could jump back to Champ or PL levels if we get ourselves promoted). Regardless of what we think about our present situation, we would still probably be looked on as a club with the facilities and structure to be playing at a higher level - the "sleeping giant" with potential that would be attractive - but maybe we haven't been sleeping long enough that we'd be available for a real bargain. It's probably why the Saudi sheikh has been rumoured to be looking at Derby; they've been down a lot longer than us and their value will have dropped off.

 

I'm also interested in why you think we will need tens of millions in player sales next year? We've had a decent chunk of wedge in this summer, our operating costs should be a lot lower in L1 this year (wage reductions + younger and cheaper first teamers replacing some of the more expensive talent) and it seems to me that the financial strife we have had in the last few years has been from spending over our means according to the EFL and FPL rules. The model of one or two big player sales per season kept us up to speed for a few years while we chased the dream in the Premier League, but only after we had the title-winning success. If we readjust expectations and go back to the model that the likes of Brighton have since adopted and now overtaken us, I think we have our place (until the rules change again).

Outstanding transfer debts around £40m to £50m, Championship football won’t lead to a huge step in money, no parachute payment to feed a cash flow loan, Seagrave costs decent sum of money to run, and then the interest from the Australian bank (8%, projected at £200k per week) and from King Power themselves (6%). 
 

That’s some considerable weight what needs fresh cash to service. 
 

The Saudi investor has picked Derby because it’s debt free. By comparison anyone buying Leicester has to service an existing debt, hence why KP have to consider that they mostly likely have to drop in their price (in the same you would with a house which is worth £400k but then there’s a hole in the roof - the purchaser would look to deduct the cost of the repair out of the price ). 

Edited 5 August by CosbehFox

[coolhandfox]

37 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

So what are we thinking Martin is actually going to do? 

 

Bristric

Watson, Chaplin / Cullen, Burns? 

 

Then what? Braybrooke and Choudhury maybe? Both Braybrooke and Page seems unlikely regardless of what the fans would pick and we seem to be thinking about letting Skipp go? Don't see much other choice? 

 

McFarlane, Okoli, Souttar, Aluko? 

 

And then presumably McCarthy? 

 

He seems to like Joseph more than Aluko.

 

I think Braybrooke and Alves get first bite at RW an CM. 

 

Thomas also first bite at LB. 

[coolhandfox]

18 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Because I am presuming, they are unable/unwilling to put any more serious money in that will be needed to keep running us. So if we aren't sold by the time the parachute payments run out, then what? 

A lot will depend on the state of KP by that time, have they recovered etc?

Edited 5 August by coolhandfox