Quarter 4 England v Italy - Sun 24 Jun 19:45

[Fox92]

I'm guessing that Sepp Blatter is in favour of penalty shoot-outs again?

TBH I wonder why Ashley young took a penalty. He did not have a good game the previous 120 min so would not be brimming with confidence.

I thought this as well.

I'm not one to blame penalty misses though. Every player misses a penalty, (even Le Tisser!), and at least the likes of Gerrard, Rooney, Young and Cole had the guts to take a penalty.

[accessory]

A few slightly drunken thoughts...

Anyone who bad-mouthed John Terry in a footballing sense (I'm looking at you, Kitchensink) should definitely be banned from ever talking about football again. The man is world class, leagues above anyone else we have in that position and I bet Roy is feeling well smug that he left Rio at home.

Our best two players from start to finish were Gerrard and Terry. Cole was solid throughout too. So much for fùcking the "old guard" off.

Andy Carroll did a lot more than Rooney in half the time.

I'd shag Andrea Pirlo.

Penalties are shit, Blatter was right again.

That's about it.

Terry "world-class"? lol

Look how often Italy and others beat the offside trap. If Mills or Bamba were at the centre of a defence in that much disarray, they would have been slaughtered on here, and rightly so.

He needs to be binned, along with the rest of the serial tournament failures. None of them have the lifestyle to succeed in major tournaments anyway. They were all knackered from half-time onwards. There's no excuse for the Italians having greater fitness levels.

[marko]

Never mind folks, at least Finnegan and Large Al will be pleased.

[Super_horns]

For 45 minutes we did well but then either tried to defend or were forced to as Pirlo controlled the game.without much competition.

Always going to lose that shoot-out weren't we....

[MC Prussian]

For 45 minutes we did well but then either tried to defend or were forced to as Pirlo controlled the game.without much competition.

Always going to lose that shoot-out weren't we....

If England had put on more pressure after the initial flurry of attacks in the first 15 minutes, it would've never gotten that far in the first place.

Plus, they had their chances (Rooney, Welbeck, etc.) but couldn't convert them.

But alas, Hodgson tried to play it safe with that congested defense/midfield wall, so my take is he's got to take some of the blame, if not the majority of it, for coming up with such an ultra-defensive approach (an English catenaccio, so to speak).

[Captain...]

To be honest the most disappointing thing is we didn't learn from our mistakes, against France we started brightly, scored, sat back and got punished, against Sweden we started ok, scored, sat back and got punished and were fortunate to turn it around. Against Ukraine we sat back and were fortunate not to get punished, and against Italy in the first 30 minutes we had them on the ropes played some lovely stuff and carved out 1 glorious chance and few other good openings made Italy look poor and then guess what.

We sat back, it was only Italy's wastefulness in front of goal and unwillingness to commit more men forward that got us to a penalty shoot out. I just wish we had gone for it and if we had lost so be it, better to go down fighting than with a whimper, but we looked tired and content to have 6 men between Balotelli and Hart and let Pirlo dictate the play and we just rushed any attacks so nobody had time to get up and support. If we are going to sit back we need either spring a fast break or keep the ball and build patiently, constantly losing the ball just heaped pressure on us, we did well not to crack, but we were physically and mentally drained at the end.

[Bert]

The back 5 and Gerrard can come out with a fair bit of credit from the tournament.

A few players showed glimpses of what they could offer, but for whatever reason they just couldn't offer much more.

Roy's made a good start with the short time he's had, now we need to have a good qualifying campaign and build for 2014.

[ScouseFox]

Terry "world-class"? lol

Look how often Italy and others beat the offside trap. If Mills or Bamba were at the centre of a defence in that much disarray, they would have been slaughtered on here, and rightly so.

He needs to be binned, along with the rest of the serial tournament failures. None of them have the lifestyle to succeed in major tournaments anyway. They were all knackered from half-time onwards. There's no excuse for the Italians having greater fitness levels.

Terry was our best player by miles vs Ukraine and vs Italy. We conceded the exact total of zero goals in that 210 minutes. That was largely in part to some fúcking fantastic defending, body on the line, head where it hurts stuff from him and the rest of his defence. Not to mention the goal line clearance against Ukraine.

You say they continually broke the offside trap, I'll respond with how often did they seriously test our goalkeeper? I can remember a few times but nothing major. And at least twice, once when Lescott and once when Johnson played Italians onside it was JT who charged back to get in the block/tackle to prevent what would have ended in goals had he not.

Terry clearly wasn't knackered from half time onwards. Nor was Gerrard. Nor was Ashley Cole. People knackered from half time onwards were Parker and Rooney. They're not the "old guard" who seem to be blamed time after time. I'll say it again, if you can find anyone who played better than Gerrard or Terry over the tournament for us, you shouldn't be watching football because you clearly know nothing. And do you know what Gerrard and Terry are? "The Old Guard". That's right, the ones who shouldn't have gone. Bore off. That will be their last tournament, that's almost a certainty. Due to age, not due to them being ineffective.

As for Rooney, with hindsight it probably wasn't best to tell him a week before the Ukraine game that he was guaranteed a start no matter what. He looked like he'd spent the week on the lash in celebration of being deemed England's best player. Carroll and Welbeck were good against Sweden, and we looked better with Carroll on for a short period vs Ukraine. Rooney needs to get fully fit.

Oh and Ashley Young is finally (hopefully) going to use this as a reality check, and remember a good season at Villa got him to United where he's had a good half season and scored about 5 times. He's not just won his 3rd Ballon d'Or. He's not as good as he thinks he is.

[MattyFromLE]

Terry "world-class"? lol

Look how often Italy and others beat the offside trap. If Mills or Bamba were at the centre of a defence in that much disarray, they would have been slaughtered on here, and rightly so.

He needs to be binned, along with the rest of the serial tournament failures. None of them have the lifestyle to succeed in major tournaments anyway. They were all knackered from half-time onwards. There's no excuse for the Italians having greater fitness levels.

Was it not Terry that blocked a Balotelli 1 on 1 chance with Hart? ...if i remember correctly, he also didn't stop like Lescott and Johnson, but kept running to block the chance.

Also, his awareness was spot on to chase after the Ukraine chance ( goal ) which nobody else did. These two contributions alone, is more than I can think of anybody else doing. Having said that, I really don't like Terry on a personality/attitude level. But as a player, I have to hand it to him - he was man of the tournament for me.

[shen]

That's the least upset I've felt about any England exit. Less optimistic for the future, more so that I think Germany would have tore us apart again. Also, it was just so predictable. A game that the opponents would have slightly the better of and that we'd lose on penalties again. A disappointing end to what was a pretty poor tournament. With 2002 & 2004, I always felt we could win it, but this year, we just had no chance. I'll be routing for Portugal, just to put a new name on the trophy.

I didn't realise we had lost 7 shoot-outs until someone posted on here. Can anyone tell me the other?

The only ones I know of are:

Portugal (x2)

Germany (x2)

Argentina

And now Italy

And obviously we beat Spain in 96.

Belgium in the 1998 King Hassan Cup, apparently.

[Fox92]

Was it not Terry that blocked a Balotelli 1 on 1 chance with Hart?

Was that the chance where Terry kept him onside?

[MattyFromLE]

Was that the chance where Terry kept him onside?

Possibly, but it is also the chance where Terry reacted faster than Lescott and Johnson to get back and block the resulting shot. Neither Lescott or Johnson/Cole got close.

[Mack]

I've had a long think about this since last night and have come to the conclusion that our downfall was in making plans prior to games and just blindly sticking with them even in the face of them clearly not working.

I also got the impression that who took the penalties was all mapped out prior to the game, which I'm sure is why the 3rd sub (Chamberlain for Young) was never made.

This was also evident in the blind selection of Rooney in both games despite us being a better / more effective / potent unit without him whilst he was suspended.

[James.]

The gulf in quality is highlighted quite nicely by the fact that the two players between which the most completed passes were made were Hart and Carroll.

[Fox92]

This all sums it up for me, just seen a few on SSN:

30 Cristiano Ronaldo has had more shots in his first four games at Euro 2012 than the entire England squad (29) had at the tournament

20 Italy had more shots on target in their quarter-final match than England had in total in their four matches in Ukraine

88 England conceded more than twice as many shots to France, Sweden, Ukraine and Italy than they had against those teams

39 England had on average 39% of the possession in their four games, their lowest figure at a tournament since Euro 1980

29 Ashley Young and James Milner put in 29 crosses in the four games. Only three reached an England team-mate

300 England averaged 300 passes per match. The four semi-finalists have averaged 479

15 England completed only 15 passes in the 15 minutes of the second period of extra-time against Italy

18 England's most successful passing combination against Italy was the goalkeeper Joe Hart to the substitute striker Andy Carroll

115 Andrea Pirlo had more passes against England than England's four starting midfielders had against Italy

18 Mesut Ozil has created 18 chances in Germany's four games. Steven Gerrard, England's most prolific chance creator, has made six

102 England ran on average 102km in their four matches. Italy ran 7.5km further on average per match

86 England have had the most tackles in the tournament, with Steven Gerrard's 18 the most of any player

29 England have blocked the most shots at Euro 2012, 17 more than Italy, 19 more than Germany, 21 more than Portugal and 24 more than Spain

[Matt]

[Tielemans63]

This all sums it up for me, just seen a few on SSN:

30 Cristiano Ronaldo has had more shots in his first four games at Euro 2012 than the entire England squad (29) had at the tournament

20 Italy had more shots on target in their quarter-final match than England had in total in their four matches in Ukraine

88 England conceded more than twice as many shots to France, Sweden, Ukraine and Italy than they had against those teams

39 England had on average 39% of the possession in their four games, their lowest figure at a tournament since Euro 1980

29 Ashley Young and James Milner put in 29 crosses in the four games. Only three reached an England team-mate

300 England averaged 300 passes per match. The four semi-finalists have averaged 479

15 England completed only 15 passes in the 15 minutes of the second period of extra-time against Italy

18 England's most successful passing combination against Italy was the goalkeeper Joe Hart to the substitute striker Andy Carroll

115 Andrea Pirlo had more passes against England than England's four starting midfielders had against Italy

18 Mesut Ozil has created 18 chances in Germany's four games. Steven Gerrard, England's most prolific chance creator, has made six

102 England ran on average 102km in their four matches. Italy ran 7.5km further on average per match

86 England have had the most tackles in the tournament, with Steven Gerrard's 18 the most of any player

29 England have blocked the most shots at Euro 2012, 17 more than Italy, 19 more than Germany, 21 more than Portugal and 24 more than Spain

Wow. That's depressing. 39% average possession over 4 games - that says it all for me.

Those stats also make a mockery of those who said Gerrard had a shit tournament. Most tackles, most blocks, most chances created. Such a shame he's been forced to play as a defensive midfielder all tournament instead of further forward where he could've created something.

[Fox92]

Wow. That's depressing. 39% average possession over 4 games - that says it all for me.

Those stats also make a mockery of those who said Gerrard had a shit tournament. Most tackles, most blocks, most chances created. Such a shame he's been forced to play as a defensive midfielder all tournament instead of further forward where he could've created something.

Yeah, only one team had a less average possession and that was Greece. Also, Hart had to make more saves than any other 'keeper in the competition.

Gerrard was probably our best player. It's a shame he had too generally do two jobs because Parker was generally poor and lost the ball a lot, just another average Premier League player. But at least Gerrard did play central midfield, he was ruined by previous managers who forced him out wide to accommodate Lampard, among other players.

[Corky]

Those stats also make a mockery of those who said Gerrard had a shit tournament. Most tackles, most blocks, most chances created. Such a shame he's been forced to play as a defensive midfielder all tournament instead of further forward where he could've created something.

It was only Leicesterpool who thought that.

[Tielemans63]

It was only Leicesterpool who thought that.

True. He also thought Joe Hart should be dropped for not saving a penalty. Can't work out whether he's a WUM or just clueless.

[The Doctor]

Never mind folks, at least Finnegan and Large Al will be pleased.

Sorry, what? I couldn't hear you over the party.

Nah, it's not as pleasing when you deserve to lose and instead do better than you should have done (in just getting to penalties - Italy were superior for about 3/4's of the match).

[Guest ttfn]

Well just had a quick look and already spotted we've saved 2 (Nadal in 1996 and Crespo in 1998) with delving much further. I'll look properly tomorrow when I don't need sleep but I can't imagine other teams are much higher, until you include our shocking efforts to score past them. I know Ricardo saved 3 for Portugal, but that was against us, and was more about Gerrard, Lampard and Carragher's shocking penalties, not Ricardo. The Argentine keeper saved two of ours in 1998, but again that down to our poor taking not good keeping. Take England's out and I'm sure other countries keepers hardly outclass ours in saving penalties. Like I say I'll look tomorrow.

Quick check just now (although 20 mins I'll never see again).

Germany - 7 saves out of 29 faced (1 in 4.14)

Spain - 4 saves out of 28 faced (1 in 7)

Hollland - 2 saves out of 24 faced (1 in 12)

France - 2 saves out of 26 faced (1 in 13)

England 2 saves out of 36 faced (1 in 18)

Even if you discount penalty shootouts against England, Germany's record is 5 saves out of 18 faced (1 in 3.6).

So, the evidence would suggest that our goalkeepers are not doing the business in penalty shootouts.

[Captain...]

Quick check just now (although 20 mins I'll never see again).

Germany - 7 saves out of 29 faced (1 in 4.14)

Spain - 4 saves out of 28 faced (1 in 7)

Hollland - 2 saves out of 24 faced (1 in 12)

France - 2 saves out of 26 faced (1 in 13)

England 2 saves out of 36 faced (1 in 18)

Even if you discount penalty shootouts against England, Germany's record is 5 saves out of 18 faced (1 in 3.6).

So, the evidence would suggest that our goalkeepers are not doing the business in penalty shootouts.

But you can only save a poor penalty, Hart went the right way for Balotelli's pen, but it was too good.

Having said that David Seaman was considered a penalty expert.

[Guest ttfn]

But you can only save a poor penalty, Hart went the right way for Balotelli's pen, but it was too good.

Having said that David Seaman was considered a penalty expert.

I certainly buy in to the theory that it is possible to take an unsaveable penalty.

But in reality this constitutes such a small percentage of penalties taken that it's too easy a cop out for goalkeepers.

[marko]

Sorry, what? I couldn't hear you over the party.

Nah, it's not as pleasing when you deserve to lose and instead do better than you should have done (in just getting to penalties - Italy were superior for about 3/4's of the match).

You sound like a plastic Scotsman with an attitude like that, oh wait.......