Tielemans63 Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 We need a fresh midfield I think Gerrard's time is up, Lampard missed out on the tournament but I don't think he would been much anyway plus his age. Chamberlin looks positive in the centre midfield, fingers crossed the same with Jack Wiltshire for when he joins us. I worry about you. Chamberlain in central midfield - when did that happen?
Libertine Dream Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 Reality check folks. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2164083/Former-Liverpool-defender-Miki-Roque-dies-cancer.html That is awful. As for tonight, 442 cost us, its and out of date formation which is being shunned by just about all but the English. You can't expect two players to pick up 3 men and then when possesion is regaineda pass it around like Pirlo was, its just too much work. Milner should have been pushed inside( my god he was awful out wide) to create a three and two of Young, Chamberlain or Walcott should have been on the wing to support a llone striker. This is far more solid and it allows you to attack with more gusto. We shouldn't forget we were missing Wilshire, Walker and Cahill aswell as Lampard and Barry, it was a scratch team under the guidance of a manager whos had 6 weeks. We went out at the stage we should have, and really our possesion retention was abysmal. Theres much to be positive about, we have an easy qualifying group to blood some of our decent youngsters and go again. Players like Walker, Wilshire, Rodwell, Chamberlain, Walcott, Welbeck, Carroll, Henderson, Cleverly, Powell and some of the U21s need to have the chance to settle in the side and grow into the shirt. In the long term, we seriously need a plan to develop technically gifted players to keep up with nations on the continent because we're just not upto that level and don't look like getting there.
21st Century Fox Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 This draw is a worst case scenario for me, I've got family allegiance to both sides. I'm going to be treading very carefully for the next few days. *Quietly puts on Italy shirt......
Guest ttfn Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 I think you're plucking an idea that other teams keepers save more penalties out of thin air when you have no idea if it's true. Penalty shoot-outs in major tournaments are quite rare really, and I bet other nations keepers don't really save at a higher rate than ours, until they play us where we take shit penalties. As you brought it up you can check your facts cos I can't be arsed. At the end of the day if we took better penalties we'd have progressed, we didn't. Can't find shootout statistics but in the last 10 years in the Premier League, 16% of penalties have been saved. Unless I'm much mistaken, England have saved 1 of 31 penalties (a touch above 3%) since 1990.
z-layrex Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 We're okay in the group stages, but against the tough nations we came unstuck and clueless. Hodgson needs to look in the mirror after this and make a complete revamp drop Rooney, say goodbye to Gerard, stop playing so negative. Say goodbye to Garrard? Our best player of he whole tourney?
Jackirius Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 Just got back from the pub and am absolutely gutted. Worst way to go out but Italy were the better team, though doesn't make it feel any better.
Asha Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 Really need an upheaval now and to focus on the development of the younger players. I hope the likes of Terry, Gerrard and Cole can now start to be phased out. They're not bad players but they've had a myriad of chances to be part of a successful England team and they haven't taken it. Ashley Young was total & utter wank. And I think Rooney has been a complete waste of time in this tournament. In an attacking sense England were fantastic against Sweden, why upset that by making a change? Once again, Rooney contributes absolutely fvck all on the big stage.
Leicesterpool Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 I get sick of people of saying Wayne Rooney's the big hero, the man whose going to the win us the tournament. He hasn't been good since Germany back in 2006 since then he's had nothing to write home about. It would have been nice to see Grant Holt to have been picked but since he doesn't play for a top six club it's unlikely you'll get involved.
Les-TA-Jon Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 I'm getting annoyed with all this "justice was done" "well they were the better side so....ah well I suppose" Screw that. How many times have we seen the "worst" side win a game of football? Man U have been doing it for years. The best teams win games that they had no right in winning. If we'd have won it'd be a victory built on incredibly solid performances at the back by JT and LS, supported by Johnson, Cole, Gerrard and Parker. We lose and it's suddenly a victory for the sport and those teams brave enough to play the beautiful game "properly". Technically gifted players, flair and keeping the ball are core parts of the game, but I hate this assumption that it's the only way the game should be played, and that any wins that are achieved otherwise are somehow invalidated. Not matter how bad we were tonight, Italy were also woeful for missing all their chances. We should have pounced on the fact that they allowed us to get to the penalty lottery and just made sure we didn't miss. Also, whilst he was obviously poor at this tournament Ashley Young seems to be getting a lot of stick for his penalty - He hit it well, just too high. Ashley Cole on the otherhand - his penalty was in another league of awfulness to Young's. Scuffed along the ground, too slow. You can say what you want about chances missed, 700+ passes and justice done, but the bottom line - the actual reason we lost was that a guy on 97 caps and a record 21 tournamet caps couldn't get the ball in from 12 yards.
Matt Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 Pissed off and gutted. We played well for the first 10 minutes and apart from the odd chance that was about it. Had a feeling that it'd go to penalties and we'd win though and when it did go to penalties thought I might be right. Gutted. Oh well, pre-tournament I expected nothing but as the tournament went on and as the hype got bigger, I got caught up in that hype. Gutted, but I expected nothing and got nothing.
Jimothy Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 Can't find shootout statistics but in the last 10 years in the Premier League, 16% of penalties have been saved. Unless I'm much mistaken, England have saved 1 of 31 penalties (a touch above 3%) since 1990. Well just had a quick look and already spotted we've saved 2 (Nadal in 1996 and Crespo in 1998) with delving much further. I'll look properly tomorrow when I don't need sleep but I can't imagine other teams are much higher, until you include our shocking efforts to score past them. I know Ricardo saved 3 for Portugal, but that was against us, and was more about Gerrard, Lampard and Carragher's shocking penalties, not Ricardo. The Argentine keeper saved two of ours in 1998, but again that down to our poor taking not good keeping. Take England's out and I'm sure other countries keepers hardly outclass ours in saving penalties. Like I say I'll look tomorrow.
ozleicester Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 Well just had a quick look and already spotted we've saved 2 (Nadal in 1996 and Crespo in 1998) with delving much further. I'll look properly tomorrow when I don't need sleep but I can't imagine other teams are much higher, until you include our shocking efforts to score past them. I know Ricardo saved 3 for Portugal, but that was against us, and was more about Gerrard, Lampard and Carragher's shocking penalties, not Ricardo. The Argentine keeper saved two of ours in 1998, but again that down to our poor taking not good keeping. Take England's out and I'm sure other countries keepers hardly outclass ours in saving penalties. Like I say I'll look tomorrow. we need Weeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulllllllllllllllllllllllll in goals for england
Donut Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 Chris Waddle had it about right on the radio. England are dreadful in every way in a technical sense. Completely unable to get hold of the ball, pass the ball, and dictate the tempo of a game as major nations do to us. If we cant keep the ball and control a game against the Swedes and Ukrainians, then come the quarter final/semi final typical teams we have no chance. We churn out absolute crap players like Walcott who can do nothing other than run quickly. No passing ability,no end product, just head down and run . Before Sweden he was living off his hattrick against Croatia for years. Look at Parker. We laud him. He was appauling all tournament. He never made a forward pass, gave the ball away a million times, looked completely unfit, so overrated it is unbelieveable. Look at players in Parkers position, Xabi Alonso, Pirlo, look at the way they dictate play compared to overrated Parker. Lescott tonight............for gods sake man put your arm down and defend instead of expecting the linesman to defend for you. him and Glenn Johsnon were absolutely ridiculous. Glenn Johsnon is an absolute abortion of a player. And now we are pinning our hopes on Oxlade Chaimberlain and Jack Wilshere. Give me a ****ing break Awful, awful squad No complaints whatsoever about the result tonight
BlueSi13 Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 From the BBC: "England recorded 35% possession against Italy - their worst amount of possession in the tournament. Against France it was 39%, Sweden 48% and Ukraine 45%." We didn't deserve to be anywhere near a semi-final with stats like those. Moving on from this stat from earlier, heres another interesting one for people saying how we have performed far better than we did 2 years ago. In terms of possession at that tournament: England 53% - 47% USA England 47% - 53% Algeria England 55% - 45% Slovenia England 52% - 48% Germany Progress? Or are we going backwards as a footballing nation?
Bryn Posted 24 June 2012 Posted 24 June 2012 Moving on from this stat from earlier, heres another interesting one for people saying how we have performed far better than we did 2 years ago. In terms of possession at that tournament: England 53% - 47% USA England 47% - 53% Algeria England 55% - 45% Slovenia England 52% - 48% Germany Progress? Or are we going backwards as a footballing nation? We won one of those games. Good point well made.
shen Posted 25 June 2012 Posted 25 June 2012 Well this is already proving to be much more exciting than I expected! It'll probably finish as the first 0-0 in this tournament despite a flurry of chances after 15mins My predictions don't come true very often, and the one I do predict was largely in jest. Typical 2014 is the time to really judge Roy. He'll have had a tournament, plenty of friendlies, several qualifiers and hopefully an overhaul of the squad. If the football is still defensive then we can really criticise. But in the month or so he's had we've done ok. We had a tough group, got through it and took Italy to penalties. We can learn from it, and I hope we will. Roy plays the same we he's always done. Organised 4-4-2 and hit on the break. I wouldn't hold my breath for a tactical overhaul anytime soon... I think serious questions need to be asked about our fitness. There's really no reason why we should have looked so tired after the 60 minute mark and Wayne Rooney should have been in absolutely top shape given that he only played two games. Well when you're largely chasing the ball for most of the game, you will always be more tired than the other team. Apart from the first half against the Swedes and patches against Ukraine, England have been chasing the game constantly. I'm not too surprised the batteries died eventually (as it did for the Greeks, Czechs and Danes who were mostly up against it in their games too).
ScouseFox Posted 25 June 2012 Posted 25 June 2012 A few slightly drunken thoughts... Anyone who bad-mouthed John Terry in a footballing sense (I'm looking at you, Kitchensink) should definitely be banned from ever talking about football again. The man is world class, leagues above anyone else we have in that position and I bet Roy is feeling well smug that he left Rio at home. Our best two players from start to finish were Gerrard and Terry. Cole was solid throughout too. So much for fùcking the "old guard" off. Andy Carroll did a lot more than Rooney in half the time. I'd shag Andrea Pirlo. Penalties are shit, Blatter was right again. That's about it.
FrankieADZ Posted 25 June 2012 Posted 25 June 2012 still cant get my head around how Ashley Young started every game.
Tielemans63 Posted 25 June 2012 Posted 25 June 2012 Biggest disappointment for me is that in the 2 games against top opponents we actually played some lovely stuff in the first 30 minutes of both and caused both France and Italy a lot of problems. It seems ludicrous to me that when we showed we could trouble a top side by playing a passing game with pace we abandoned that tactic as soon as we came under any pressure. In both games we were playing really well until the opposition started to try and exert pressure - at that point we stopped doing what we were doing well and reverted to panic hoof ball. Why not stick to what we were doing well?! I don't buy that our boys can't pass it, I think the problem is that they don't.
Fox92 Posted 25 June 2012 Posted 25 June 2012 You can afford to let the other team play in front of you, especially when you play a side like Italy with quality players. Hodgson has always let the other team have it, even at club level, and it's a pain to watch, which is why I never wanted him to be manager. Italy deserved to win no doubt. Gerrard was our best player, in my opinion. He effectively plays on his own in central midfield because Parker, who gives the ball away constantly, isn't good enough. Apart from two/three England players, most of our squad are average Premier League players. I said after the Italy v Spain game that Pirlo is a different class. No sweat, makes it look easy. Qualiy. Top player. I knew he was good, but I never thought he was that good. Feel for Ashley Cole as well. He's going to get some bad press because of the penalty miss, just because who it is. I hope he makes 100, or more, caps because he is a top player. Shame the media convey him as something else, but I've always liked him.
Reynard Bleu Posted 25 June 2012 Posted 25 June 2012 Once again we looked jaded and tired after 1/2 an hour. We knew eveything would go through Pirlo and we just left him to stroll around midfield pinging the ball where he wanted. We need someone who can provide the bullets, Steven Gerrard was to busy covering ground to stem the tide. Italy played better than we did but to be frank that was not hard.
Daggers Posted 25 June 2012 Posted 25 June 2012 I'm guessing that Sepp Blatter is in favour of penalty shoot-outs again?
Rincewind Posted 25 June 2012 Posted 25 June 2012 Just saw some crap tweets on twitter. Somebody set up an account to have a go at Ashley Cole and Young and not because of their (lack of) football abilities. Think its just to wind people up. TBH I wonder why Ashley young took a penalty. He did not have a good game the previous 120 min so would not be brimming with confidence.
RonnieTodger Posted 25 June 2012 Posted 25 June 2012 That's the least upset I've felt about any England exit. Less optimistic for the future, more so that I think Germany would have tore us apart again. Also, it was just so predictable. A game that the opponents would have slightly the better of and that we'd lose on penalties again. A disappointing end to what was a pretty poor tournament. With 2002 & 2004, I always felt we could win it, but this year, we just had no chance. I'll be routing for Portugal, just to put a new name on the trophy. I didn't realise we had lost 7 shoot-outs until someone posted on here. Can anyone tell me the other? The only ones I know of are: Portugal (x2) Germany (x2) Argentina And now Italy And obviously we beat Spain in 96.
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