'Multiculturalism has resulted in division, separatism and distrust'

[DennisNedry]

Our History, societal norms, our culture has been born on the back of multiculturalism.

French, Belgiums, Anglos, Saxon, Normans, Welsh, Irish, Scots, Spanish, Portugese, ex-slaves, Jews, Catholic, Protestants,

Old-age Muslims, Hindus, Germans, Italians,oh and the Greeks even these mentioned were of mixed blood.

It seems like many all around the world, white Brits, like All asians, all Africans etc are and have been for 1000s of yrs, a meltingpot of multiculturism,Nationality has always been a bag of mixed confusions.

Even more strange when Africans, Indians, Pakistanis, east Asians pull out the racist cards, their societies have been suffering

with it from inside without a so called whiteman ever being involved.

 

I see where you are coming from but it's a lot different now to 1000s of years ago. European cultures were very similar to each other at the time. Far more similar than Europe today compared to the middle east. Also, multiculturalism back then wasn't a conscious social experiment, it was the result of nations and armies invading each other and wiping each other out.

 

What do you think of this story..

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2770621/Couple-singing-Peppa-Pig-theme-tune-toddler-daughter-thrown-bus-passenger-accused-racist.html

[RedHux]

1000's of kids have been abused in catholic run facilities over the last 100 years. I'm not sayimg dont deal with issue. What i'm saying is, its not a pakistani custom to rape children, its just a criminal issue so mentioning pakistani as if they are the only ones guilty of these sort of crimes is ridiculous and breeds division.

Lets not forget BBC DJs from the 70s. 

[fuchsntf]

I see where you are coming from but it's a lot different now to 1000s of years ago. European cultures were very similar to each other at the time. Far more similar than Europe today compared to the middle east. Also, multiculturalism back then wasn't a conscious social experiment, it was the result of nations and armies invading each other and wiping each other out.

What do you think of this story..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2770621/Couple-singing-Peppa-Pig-theme-tune-toddler-daughter-thrown-bus-passenger-accused-racist.html

Sort of Pig ignorant..one could say.

Funny thing is these type of things happen everyday, weirdos crying racism has nothing to do with cultures not mixing.

That could of been a fat white person, misinterpreting also the situation.A tw#t remains a tw#t.

I wasnt writing about 1000yrs ago, but saying its been going on so long, plus now and forever.

What settled culture in Britain have we had, 400yrs,250yrs,100yrs or even 60 yrs ago, we are a people then , now and the future

of mixedcultures, including that of oriental or Asian influence.

There is no conspiracy of social experiments, its no different now than before, peoples of the world travelled and emigrated, without conquering raping and pillaging, merchants, tradesmen decided in some cases to stay in land of choice, or where life

took them.Exactly the same today, my generation definitely didnt kick it off.

The other important point, Its only Europeans who take up some complex that somebody is inferior due to their skin or where

they come from.Foreigners in many countries are taken as guests and not somebody to insult.

My children are of mixed blood, German and English, I come from Norman, anglo saxon stock, shit man I couldnt give a damn,

People north of the thames or the pennines have cultural differences to those cut from the south.

We have white Brits who look down on their white neighbours, where does the crap stop.We need an alien invasion before

people of Earth realise ...it doesnt really matter does it.

[Rincewind]

If aliens did land here there would be people looking for ways to demean them because there were different.

What an awful world it would be if we were all the same.

[leicsmac]

I'm hearing a lot about "British culture" in this thread. Can someone do me a favour and define that, as I'm having a little trouble.

What exactly does it mean...cups of tea? Empire expansionism? The Westminster style of government? Morris dancing? Britpop? The spirit of 'fair play'? Horseback Norman knights riding around? Putting the windows in in local bars when England play abroad?

I might be more worried about "British culture" being threatened by multiculturalism if I knew exactly what was going be lost. Or not, depending on what it was.

[BlueSi13]

I'm hearing a lot about "British culture" in this thread. Can someone do me a favour and define that, as I'm having a little trouble.

What exactly does it mean...cups of tea? Empire expansionism? The Westminster style of government? Morris dancing? Britpop? The spirit of 'fair play'? Horseback Norman knights riding around? Putting the windows in in local bars when England play abroad?

I might be more worried about "British culture" being threatened by multiculturalism if I knew exactly what was going be lost. Or not, depending on what it was.

 

 

That is precisely what those that furiously advocated multiculturalism wanted you to feel.  Erode and degrade the 'indeginous' sense of identity and belonging so as to ensure a smoother and more 'tolerant' passage for the huge number of new arrivals.

 

It is the reason multiculturalism as a concept now lies dead and buried all across Europe.  There should have always only ever been one culture and one community, but with many different faces.  Telling the whole world and his wife that they could come to this country and bring their beliefs, norms, and practices with them without ever feeling like they need to fully assimilate was begging for trouble.  We will be paying the price for years unfortunately.

[leicsmac]

That is precisely what those that furiously advocated multiculturalism wanted you to feel. Erode and degrade the 'indeginous' sense of identity and belonging so as to ensure a smoother and more 'tolerant' passage for the huge number of new arrivals.

It is the reason multiculturalism as a concept now lies dead and buried all across Europe. There should have always only ever been one culture and one community, but with many different faces. Telling the whole world and his wife that they could come to this country and bring their beliefs, norms, and practices with them without ever feeling like they need to fully assimilate was begging for trouble. We will be paying the price for years unfortunately.

I've never felt that sense of identity to be the case. I love my country, but never blindly, and because of the things it does now - not the things that have happened in the distant past. Also, the idea that some "power" is manipulating people's opinion in that way in order to do...What, exactly? (Flood the country with immigrants? To what end?) is Empty-level conspiracy theory. I've no doubt TPTB are capable of that kind of manipulation, but it seems more to me that they're keeping people divided, rather than encouraging welcoming of different cultures.

In any case, I think the era of the nation state is coming to an end. There will be problems for humanity pretty soon that will require a global solution. And if various nation states spend too much time squabbling on account of petty differences based on ideology then we'll end up the same way as 98% of the species who have ever inhabited the Earth did. What good will preserving culture do then, other than to provide a curio for the next lot of dominant species to look at?

Sooner or later, it will be one world, or no world.

P.S. I'm still curious as to what exactly British culture is defined as.

[Harry - LCFC]

Driving down Melton Road and Belgrave gate on Thursday playing spot the white guy (I couldn't) left me feeling ashamed rather than proud. Is that racist? Maybe it is, but it's how I feel. 

 

It might be that you don't feel comfortable in an area that's quite culturally different. If you'd said the same thing where all the Asians were fairly westernised I'd have to say that's a racist comment although it doesn't sound great I have to say.

 

 

The idea of multiculturalism is fundamentally racist

 

Really don't know how you've come up with this. It's like the roles have been reversed, now the man on the right is the one who shouts 'racism' where it doesn't apply.

[Webbo]

If aliens did land here there would be people looking for ways to demean them because there were different.

What an awful world it would be if we were all the same.

I can just imagine you when they start eating humans. You'd say it was made up by the Daily Mail to help the tories and that you used to have a friend who was a Martian and he helped out at a foodbank so we shouldnt judge all intergalactic warlords the same.

[PAPA LAZAROU]

I'm hearing a lot about "British culture" in this thread. Can someone do me a favour and define that, as I'm having a little trouble.

What exactly does it mean...cups of tea? Empire expansionism? The Westminster style of government? Morris dancing? Britpop? The spirit of 'fair play'? Horseback Norman knights riding around? Putting the windows in in local bars when England play abroad?

I might be more worried about "British culture" being threatened by multiculturalism if I knew exactly what was going be lost. Or not, depending on what it was.

 

So are you saying that just about British culture ? Would you say there is no Asian culture , no West Indian culture , no Chinese culture ?  what a ridiculous thing to say. Of course there is a British culture the real problem is so many immigrants refuse to take it on board and be part of it. 

[Buce]

I saw an interview with a Somali immigrant, a while back, in which he stated that the reason that Somali refugees come here, rather than settle in the countries that had originally granted them asylum (mainly Denmark & The Netherlands), is because those countries insist on cultural assimilation, and we don't.

Now, that really pisses me off: we have no historical ties with Somalia, as we do with the ex-empire countries, yet once granted asylum in an EU country they are free to come here and not intigrate. That is the main issue with the free-movement policy within the EU: we don't actually have a say who comes here.

[leicsmac]

So are you saying that just about British culture ? Would you say there is no Asian culture , no West Indian culture , no Chinese culture ?  what a ridiculous thing to say. Of course there is a British culture the real problem is so many immigrants refuse to take it on board and be part of it. 

 

Of course there's a British culture. It just seems that everyone has different ideas about what exactly it is and how it's supposedly being eroded.

[Dr The Singh]

So are you saying that just about British culture ? Would you say there is no Asian culture , no West Indian culture , no Chinese culture ? what a ridiculous thing to say. Of course there is a British culture the real problem is so many immigrants refuse to take it on board and be part of it.

There is no such thing as Asian culture

[MPH]

So are you saying that just about British culture ? Would you say there is no Asian culture , no West Indian culture , no Chinese culture ?  what a ridiculous thing to say. Of course there is a British culture the real problem is so many immigrants refuse to take it on board and be part of it. 

 

 

 

 

Exactly what would you mean by Asian Culture.... Its a pretty big place... Are you saying the Indian Culture is the same as the Chinese? and Vietnamese too? Can't imagine them Thai Lady boys rocking it up at a mosque in Pakistan....

 

 

 

 

And yes, I'm being facetious.... I've been up since 4am! couldn't sleep!

[BlueSi13]

I've never felt that sense of identity to be the case. I love my country, but never blindly, and because of the things it does now - not the things that have happened in the distant past. Also, the idea that some "power" is manipulating people's opinion in that way in order to do...What, exactly? (Flood the country with immigrants? To what end?) is Empty-level conspiracy theory. I've no doubt TPTB are capable of that kind of manipulation, but it seems more to me that they're keeping people divided, rather than encouraging welcoming of different cultures.

In any case, I think the era of the nation state is coming to an end. There will be problems for humanity pretty soon that will require a global solution. And if various nation states spend too much time squabbling on account of petty differences based on ideology then we'll end up the same way as 98% of the species who have ever inhabited the Earth did. What good will preserving culture do then, other than to provide a curio for the next lot of dominant species to look at?

Sooner or later, it will be one world, or no world.

P.S. I'm still curious as to what exactly British culture is defined as.

The fear was that nationalism would have resulted in the widespread rejection of immigrants.  So therefore the messages we started to (and still) receive of Britishness tended to focus on the negative aspects of our culture (you listed a few textbook ones earlier) and of the empire, and what we as a country have given to the world.  Destroy predominately English morale and politicians felt by doing this would make us more accepting to newcomers.  However that one sense of pride and unity was the ONLY thing that would have prevented the complete destruction of multiculturalism as an idea.

 

You CANNOT have an ideology which states that this country can be home to a million different cultures without a fierce sense of national and civic pride to bind them all together.  Look at the United States as a perfect example of how this is a success.  The fact that people such as yourself question your own nationality and culture is a perfect example of how this has been achieved.

 

If white British people don't really know who they are anymore, how the hell is a Pakistani or Somalian meant to identify with their new home?  That's why by and large they don't identify or feel like they belong, and instead cling to the identity they supposedly left behind.  

[lavrentis]

The UK won't be at its best until the White British people are a minority or wiped out.

[leicsmac]

The fear was that nationalism would have resulted in the widespread rejection of immigrants.  So therefore the messages we started to (and still) receive of Britishness tended to focus on the negative aspects of our culture (you listed a few textbook ones earlier) and of the empire, and what we as a country have given to the world.  Destroy predominately English morale and politicians felt by doing this would make us more accepting to newcomers.  However that one sense of pride and unity was the ONLY thing that would have prevented the complete destruction of multiculturalism as an idea.

 

You CANNOT have an ideology which states that this country can be home to a million different cultures without a fierce sense of national and civic pride to bind them all together.  Look at the United States as a perfect example of how this is a success.  The fact that people such as yourself question your own nationality and culture is a perfect example of how this has been achieved.

 

If white British people don't really know who they are anymore, how the hell is a Pakistani or Somalian meant to identify with their new home?  That's why by and large they don't identify or feel like they belong, and instead cling to the identity they supposedly left behind.  

 

Really? You think that the most prominent well-heard voices out in the world are the ones encouraging immigration, in the past and present? I think it's the other way round. But it is interesting how that can be interpreted completely differently by two different people.

 

As for the examples I gave,  I mixed in positive with negative - the Westminster system is a good system of government, it's old, it works and that's why lots of other democracies use it too. And there's nothing wrong with Morris dancing or Britpop, either.    I can certainly see why people however would think that we've been taught to decry all of our history (the good as well as the bad)...but I really don't think most believe it - we're a people naturally given to self-depreciation as humour, after all.

 

I'll be honest, the whole idea of a monolithic national identity ala the US is something of which I'm rather wary. I also think British culture as a whole is pretty nebulous, which led me to what I said above - you ask a dozen people what it is, you'll get a dozen answers. How can something that indistinct be being eroded, and how do we know it's happening?

 

As I said before, I love the UK and I'm glad to have grown up there as it's given me a thousand and one opportunities others wouldn't have...but precisely because I love my country, I insist on the right to question every act she takes or has taken, not just accept.

[Webbo]

If you emigrate to another country the onus is on you to fit in not the host country to change to accommodate you. That doesn't mean you can't respect your own traditions and keep your own religion. Expecting immigrants to meet you half way isn't racist.

[Rincewind]

If you emigrate to another country the onus is on you to fit in not the host country to change to accommodate you. That doesn't mean you can't respect your own traditions and keep your own religion. Expecting immigrants to meet you half way isn't racist.

Good point but who decides which parts of their culture is kept?

[Harry - LCFC]

I saw an interview with a Somali immigrant, a while back, in which he stated that the reason that Somali refugees come here, rather than settle in the countries that had originally granted them asylum (mainly Denmark & The Netherlands), is because those countries insist on cultural assimilation, and we don't.

Now, that really pisses me off: we have no historical ties with Somalia, as we do with the ex-empire countries, yet once granted asylum in an EU country they are free to come here and not intigrate. That is the main issue with the free-movement policy within the EU: we don't actually have a say who comes here.

 

Just out of interest, how do those countries go about assimilating people? Since I've no experience of attempts to integrate people I don't really no what they'd look like. You can't make people behave in a certain way after all.

 

 

The UK won't be at its best until the White British people are a minority or wiped out.

 

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

[Koke]

Good point but who decides which parts of their culture is kept?

 

Precisely the problem .Caribbean immigrants have more or less integrated into British mainstream culture, of course it helps that they are Christians or come from Christian backgrounds. Immigrants from Muslim backgrounds, Pakistanis or otherwise, are less likely to fully assimilate. The big elephant in the room here is Islam. Islam is very dogmatic and rigid. And if you add religion into an already strict South Asian culture, it leaves very little room for proper integration. 

 

That said, I dont see why it would bother people if law abiding Muslims wore niqabs and burkas, and why they feel that as a threat to British culture and way of life. I think they look stupid and they are wasting their lives worshipping an invisible man in the sky but thats just, like, my opinion, man. 

 

I will say this though. If your culture or religion is promoting behaviours that is detrimental to society, it should be challenged. Human rights triumphs culture and religion. 

 

Other than that, live and let live. 

[Koke]

Just out of interest, how do those countries go about assimilating people? Since I've no experience of attempts to integrate people I don't really no what they'd look like. You can't make people behave in a certain way after all.

 

You cant integrate people overnight. It takes at least a generation. 

 

"Integration" is such an absurd subject term anyway. Its subjective and cannot be defined properly. What we think of integration or assimilation, others might disagree with us. 

[Strokes]

Precisely the problem .Caribbean immigrants have more or less integrated into British mainstream culture, of course it helps that they are Christians or come from Christian backgrounds. Immigrants from Muslim backgrounds, Pakistanis or otherwise, are less likely to fully assimilate. The big elephant in the room here is Islam. Islam is very dogmatic and rigid. And if you add religion into an already strict South Asian culture, it leaves very little room for proper integration.

That said, I dont see why it would bother people if law abiding Muslims wore niqabs and burkas, and why they feel that as a threat to British culture and way of life. I think they look stupid and they are wasting their lives worshipping an invisible man in the sky but thats just, like, my opinion, man.

I will say this though. If your culture or religion is promoting behaviours that is detrimental to society, it should be challenged. Human rights triumphs culture and religion.

Other than that, live and let live.

A good post, its the free to challange part where I feel we are seriously lacking.

Its not just religion affecting society, antisocial behaviour comes from all spectrums and classes. We just lack the ability to have a reasoned debate, without branding and name calling in this country and that's why you are all cúnts.

[Harry - LCFC]

That said, I dont see why it would bother people if law abiding Muslims wore niqabs and burkas, and why they feel that as a threat to British culture and way of life. I think they look stupid and they are wasting their lives worshipping an invisible man in the sky but thats just, like, my opinion, man. 

 

Whenever I see someone wearing either of those garments I can't help but assume they aren't a very social person. I know that it's worn to stop men (like me) looking at them because that's something to avoid, apparently. Either that or their family required them to wear which doesn't give me a good first impression.

 

As for it being a threat to British culture, I'm not sure about I'd describe it like that but in western societies it's the done thing for people to speak openly with one another and not to hide themselves away. Wearers of the burka and niqab do go against this notion I feel.

[Webbo]

If you want to live just as you lived in the old country why not just live in the old country?