Strokes Posted 15 June 2017 Share Posted 15 June 2017 12 minutes ago, LiberalFox said: It's early early days but I've been very impressed so far with Layla Moran our new MP for Oxford West and Abingdon. She seems very pleasant tbf, now with Farron gone I hope the Lib Dems can recover and regain some proper identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 15 June 2017 Share Posted 15 June 2017 3 hours ago, Buce said: Sinn Fein say Govt 'breaching Good Friday Agreement'. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/jun/15/theresa-may-northern-ireland-talks-dup-deal-delayed-politics-live?page=with:block-5942ae11e4b0240ef7614cc2#block-5942ae11e4b0240ef7614cc2 It's not looking good, this deal. We need another GE and quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 15 June 2017 Share Posted 15 June 2017 7 hours ago, LiberalFox said: On religion... I don't think Tim Farron's religious beliefs have been handled very well either by him or the party. He isn't just a Christian but an Evangelist and he has quite a strong interpretation of the faith such as believing in the concept of heaven and hell. The question on gay sex should have been answered with a simple "no" just like Theresa May answered it. She has a "worse" voting record on LGBT+ rights but wasn't hounded because she gave a simple answer. I don't think people with a religious belief should be excluded from politics but I don't think it is unreasonable that people would consider whether they can vote for someone who might be prejudiced by their religion. I don't think I would have voted Lib Dem if I was not already a member of the party. I really don't trust "born again" religious people. It is not something obviously compatible with the values of reason and logic that I value most. It is my democratic right to vote for whoever I want and there is no formal definition of "a liberal" either. There may well be people who think it is deeply illiberal to consider anyone's personal beliefs relevant to a decision to vote for them, but I think people are always influenced by their prejudices and don't believe in the mythical construct of the "true liberal", the idea that you could be racist, homophobic, anti-semitic or whatever else privately, yet publicly not discriminate against anyone. It's a shame that people are going to interpret Tim Farron's resignation as proof that "liberals" are actually cultishly "PC" when I don't think this is true. I certainly wouldn't mind a politician having a faith, but it has to be an interpretation of that faith that does not infringe on other people's rights in my view. He could have said in the eyes of the church it is a sin, but he is the leader of political party that believes in equality for gay people and he is here to represent the views of that party and not that of the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 June 2017 Share Posted 16 June 2017 7 hours ago, Captain... said: He could have said in the eyes of the church it is a sin, but he is the leader of political party that believes in equality for gay people and he is here to represent the views of that party and not that of the church. Whilst I'm no fan on religion in general - there is no God after all - i don't see why somebody should be shot down for their personal beliefs if it isn't affecting their policy judgement. It seems to me no more than media theatre much like the obsession with expecting mps to remember every figure in a budget off the top of their head. It is irrelevant in terms of their ability to do their job. I'd also point out that people are allowed to have different views and there is no 'correct' opinion on anything that isn't measurable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 16 June 2017 Share Posted 16 June 2017 2 hours ago, toddybad said: Whilst I'm no fan on religion in general - there is no God after all - i don't see why somebody should be shot down for their personal beliefs if it isn't affecting their policy judgement. It seems to me no more than media theatre much like the obsession with expecting mps to remember every figure in a budget off the top of their head. It is irrelevant in terms of their ability to do their job. I'd also point out that people are allowed to have different views and there is no 'correct' opinion on anything that isn't measurable. I think he could have been able to do both, but with his inability to clarify his position and his record of voting against his party on some LGBT matters: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/whats-tim-farrons-track-record-on-lgbt-rights If he had had an exemplary record of voting for LGBT rights and had been able to deal with theological question by distinguishing between the beliefs of the church the views of the party and his personal beliefs then he wouldn't have needed to step down for that reason. The fact that he has failed make the Lib Dems any more relevant would be a reason to step down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 17 June 2017 Share Posted 17 June 2017 has just said (via BBC Radio 4's Andrea Catherwood) Which means a hard border between between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland - the foundation of the violence in Northern Ireland and the terrorism catalyst. And has already claimed May broke the Good Friday agreement by going into the coalition with the DUP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 17 June 2017 Share Posted 17 June 2017 Deal with the DUP ain't gonna happen is it. Happy days. She looks like a right twat for even contemplating it tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 2 hours ago, daz*dsb said: Deal with the DUP ain't gonna happen is it. Happy days. She looks like a right twat for even contemplating it tbh. If you're right we need a sweepstake thread to guess the number of weeks the tories will stay in power for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 4 hours ago, toddybad said: If you're right we need a sweepstake thread to guess the number of weeks the tories will stay in power for. Might be days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 4 weeks would be my punt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 8 hours ago, Foxxed said: has just said (via BBC Radio 4's Andrea Catherwood) Which means a hard border between between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland - the foundation of the violence in Northern Ireland and the terrorism catalyst. And has already claimed May broke the Good Friday agreement by going into the coalition with the DUP. You know that Ian Paisley has been dead for years and it's his son that's the MP now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 NEVER NEVER NEVERRRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 There should be a bank holiday when May resigns. Then she should be dropped in the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 What a mess this is. Understandably the Conservatives don't want an election and in truth I'm not sure the country really has the appetite for another one so soon either, but the numbers don't work for anything else other than a high risk 'arrangement' with the DUP, which sits uncomfortably with many. On top of this, we have a weakened Prime Minister, beholden to factions underneath for her fate, yet the quite open truth in circles not to far away from her is that she's and working an indefinite notice until a better option and better timing can somehow materialise. What we have is an election result that is essentially useless to everyone the voted. There is no clear discernible mandate for any policies of any political party that stood on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 Asked why he hasn't brought back Yvette Cooper, Corbyn says he hasn't yet filled some of the junior ministerial shadow roles Amazing, the Labour moderates are sickening, they way they have now got behind him shows they have no shame, I hope every single one is booted out - I'm sure they'll do it as well. I doubt guys like Milne and McDonnell are ones who forgive and forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 P.S WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 Hammond showing this morning why he was kept away from the campaigning. When he speaks I can hear Quint from Jaws talking about dead eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 1 hour ago, MattP said: P.S WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 I understand that sometimes it's easy to not understand why people are arguing a certain viewpoint on here because nobody talks about their own personal situations - so here's mine: It's quite simple for me - I'm sick and tired of the doom & gloom rule we live under at the moment. I voted Conservative in the last election (regretfully) but I did so because I felt that things were improving for me, personally. I'm 32, I have a mortgage on a 3 bed semi-detached house which we're slowly eating into, I have a job that puts me in the higher tax bracket and I drive a F-Type as a company car. I'm exactly the kind of candidate who should be voting Tory again, to protect my own selfish interests - because I'm 'doing alright jack'. But I won't - I can't. I feel down, depressed at times at the state of this country. It makes me ****ing sick to listen to these jeering cvnts on PMQs acting like ****ing kids when our country needs and deserves better right now. This Tory government has proved that austerity hasn't made the slightest bit of ****ing difference to the debt regardless of cuts and poor people suffering. Add to that the complete ****ing farce that is 'Brexit' and I'm full of hate, disdain and bitterness towards the current system. Corbyn for me - is a shining beacon of light / hope that something better could be achieved if we take a different route. I've said it before - whether he can deliver everything he promises - probably not, but what ****ing government does? At the moment we're following a bunch of useless ***** down a dark forest path with no light in sight - we've got someone offering something more postive - well **** it, I'm gonna get on board and head down that path instead. His opinions on things like Trident / nuclear and stopping funding to the Saudis are all things that align with my beliefs of how we stop the rot and create a better world for future generations. I also find him compassionate, REAL and a principled character - something I've personally not seen in politics in my life-time. How will it affect me personally? Who knows - maybe I'll have less money, maybe I'll pay more tax. I've recently come to understand that money isn't the be all and end all for me - if I'm a little poorer but it helps everyone else a little bit then so ****ing be it. I can and will not support negativity blindly. EDIT: I'm not getting into any more arguments today - I'm going outside in the sun to crack a crafty, get high and enjoy being young and liberal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 22 minutes ago, daz*dsb said: I understand that sometimes it's easy to not understand why people are arguing a certain viewpoint on here because nobody talks about their own personal situations - so here's mine: It's quite simple for me - I'm sick and tired of the doom & gloom rule we live under at the moment. I voted Conservative in the last election (regretfully) but I did so because I felt that things were improving for me, personally. I'm 32, I have a mortgage on a 3 bed semi-detached house which we're slowly eating into, I have a job that puts me in the higher tax bracket and I drive a F-Type as a company car. I'm exactly the kind of candidate who should be voting Tory again, to protect my own selfish interests - because I'm 'doing alright jack'. But I won't - I can't. I feel down, depressed at times at the state of this country. It makes me ****ing sick to listen to these jeering cvnts on PMQs acting like ****ing kids when our country needs and deserves better right now. This Tory government has proved that austerity hasn't made the slightest bit of ****ing difference to the debt regardless of cuts and poor people suffering. Add to that the complete ****ing farce that is 'Brexit' and I'm full of hate, disdain and bitterness towards the current system. Corbyn for me - is a shining beacon of light / hope that something better could be achieved if we take a different route. I've said it before - whether he can deliver everything he promises - probably not, but what ****ing government does? At the moment we're following a bunch of useless ***** down a dark forest path with no light in sight - we've got someone offering something more postive - well **** it, I'm gonna get on board and head down that path instead. His opinions on things like Trident / nuclear and stopping funding to the Saudis are all things that align with my beliefs of how we stop the rot and create a better world for future generations. I also find him compassionate, REAL and a principled character - something I've personally not seen in politics in my life-time. How will it affect me personally? Who knows - maybe I'll have less money, maybe I'll pay more tax. I've recently come to understand that money isn't the be all and end all for me - if I'm a little poorer but it helps everyone else a little bit then so ****ing be it. I can and will not support negativity blindly. EDIT: I'm not getting into any more arguments today - I'm going outside in the sun to crack a crafty, get high and enjoy being young and liberal. Funnily enough I don't disagree with most of that, maybe not the brexit part or the hatred. I do feel we are at a crossroads as country now and I'm not sure which way is best, for me personally or for the country. I can understand both sides of the argument but I'm not sure I agree with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 5 minutes ago, Strokes said: Funnily enough I don't disagree with most of that, maybe not the brexit part or the hatred. I do feel we are at a crossroads as country now and I'm not sure which way is best, for me personally or for the country. I can understand both sides of the argument but I'm not sure I agree with either. I just thought it was important for me to explain my own personal situation and how that has guided my decision. I know I come in here all sweary and argumentative like but that's just my writing style. I realise people will never agree on politics, I just like a good rant / argument, etc. I don't really have any animosity against anyone for their views on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 5 minutes ago, daz*dsb said: I just thought it was important for me to explain my own personal situation and how that has guided my decision. I know I come in here all sweary and argumentative like but that's just my writing style. I realise people will never agree on politics, I just like a good rant / argument, etc. I don't really have any animosity against anyone for their views on here. This. On the politics threads all right-leaning posters are fair game to me, but it stays strictly on the thread - once off it, it's back to being buddies again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 6 minutes ago, daz*dsb said: I just thought it was important for me to explain my own personal situation and how that has guided my decision. I know I come in here all sweary and argumentative like but that's just my writing style. I realise people will never agree on politics, I just like a good rant / argument, etc. I don't really have any animosity against anyone for their views on here. No that's fair enough and like I say, I do agree with a lot of it myself. Like you I voted Tory in 2015 but didn't this time due to absolute shocking manifesto, I didn't vote for Labour, although I might if it's rerun and the conservatives don't correct themselves. I voted for brexit (for reasons that I've gone over and over) and I'm still happy it was the right choice, although I have no faith in TM to deliver it. I'd rather JC than that horror show. We need another election, we cannot move forward whilst TM is steering the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 I will unquestionably be better off from a personal finance perspective under a Tory government, and if they had it their way and the NHS was fully privatised my earning potential would go through the roof. That isn't the only thing I value in life though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 18 June 2017 Share Posted 18 June 2017 4 hours ago, MattP said: P.S WTF Thats that fella who you say is the brightest man in the cabinet, yeah? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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