Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[deep blue]

On 30/11/2023 at 11:41, HighPeakFox said:

I still find it baffling to find the left being blamed or used as the bogeyman, despite 13 years of corruption, self-interest and upper class bus shelter smashing by the most dangerously out of control hard right government this country has ever endured. I honestly think a significant number of our population think they deserve punishment, and vote for it. 

Baffles me too, like the red wall areas being seduced by such a charlatan as Boris.  I have this feeling that there's a masochistic, feudal, tip-your-cap instinct in a fair number of people in this country that seems to accept that it's their position in life to remain downtrodden at the will of "the elite".  

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, deep blue said:

Baffles me too, like the red wall areas being seduced by such a charlatan as Boris.  I have this feeling that there's a masochistic, feudal, tip-your-cap instinct in a fair number of people in this country that seems to accept that it's their position in life to remain downtrodden at the will of "the elite".  

'Whoever had created humanity had left in a major design flaw.It was its tendency to bend at the knees." - Terry Pratchett, Feet of Clay

[Daggers]

I’ve cancelled Xmas this year. We have decorations up, but we’re not having presents or a blowout meal - I’m volunteering with my girl most days over the period anyway. 
 

I couldn’t face going through with it with so much misery and suffering in the world; throwing money at single-use plastics and straight-to-bin foods just seems so wrong at the moment. 

[Daggers]

This is probably exceptionally unpopular with those who share my political leanings - but I don't reckon anyone would have done much better at running the country during Covid. Any decision made in one direction would have had implications for others, I don't think there was any "right" path of choices. Yes, they managed to mess an awful lot up, they lied, and money was squandered...but this was an unprecedented situation with non-experts in control.

 

If it wasn't Mone, someone else would've lined their pockets. If money had been directed at care homes, would money have still been given out to the self-employed? I'd much rather there was a reckoning for the lies and hate that fuelled Brexit or the disastrous Truss/Kwarteng budget that wasn't a budget.

 

See, I reckon there's a salient difference between incompetence and intent. Covid was a clusterfvck of ineptitude, Brexit and the £60billion fiscal hole were a choice to benefit the rich over the poor. I'd see those responsible for the latter getting a good gibbeting.

[foxile5]

58 minutes ago, Daggers said:

This is probably exceptionally unpopular with those who share my political leanings - but I don't reckon anyone would have done much better at running the country during Covid. Any decision made in one direction would have had implications for others, I don't think there was any "right" path of choices. Yes, they managed to mess an awful lot up, they lied, and money was squandered...but this was an unprecedented situation with non-experts in control.

 

If it wasn't Mone, someone else would've lined their pockets. If money had been directed at care homes, would money have still been given out to the self-employed? I'd much rather there was a reckoning for the lies and hate that fuelled Brexit or the disastrous Truss/Kwarteng budget that wasn't a budget.

 

See, I reckon there's a salient difference between incompetence and intent. Covid was a clusterfvck of ineptitude, Brexit and the £60billion fiscal hole were a choice to benefit the rich over the poor. I'd see those responsible for the latter getting a good gibbeting.

There’s truth in this Daggers.

 

The only part that I can really object to is the nest feathering. I do not think that would have happened to the extent it did if it were labour running it. The greediness and self-centeredness of this sitting government was shown in stark light. Multiple instances of law breaking and outright theft that I simply cannot see the Labour Party doing.

 

The handling of it I can look past - it was dreadful, unprecedented, and difficult to manage. I think that was tough to deal with. I think the Labour Party MAY have done better but that cannot be proven. 

[Daggers]

20 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

There’s truth in this Daggers.

 

The only part that I can really object to is the nest feathering. I do not think that would have happened to the extent it did if it were labour running it. The greediness and self-centeredness of this sitting government was shown in stark light. Multiple instances of law breaking and outright theft that I simply cannot see the Labour Party doing.

 

The handling of it I can look past - it was dreadful, unprecedented, and difficult to manage. I think that was tough to deal with. I think the Labour Party MAY have done better but that cannot be proven. 

Yep - but it's like expecting a bear not to shit in the woods. The bear is going to do what the bear has always done. I'm not excusing the behaviour, I just don't think there was ever going to be a permutation where better decisions would have been made with the team as it was.

 

Maybe an emergency cross party action group? But then it's back to the bears and woods thing, the cabinet was the product of Brexit and an inner party shift to the further right.

 

No one is ever going to prison, none of that cash is ever going to be recovered. I think we as a country really have to focus on how we can put in place systems to deal with future major events in a better fashion.

[bmt]

2 hours ago, Daggers said:

This is probably exceptionally unpopular with those who share my political leanings - but I don't reckon anyone would have done much better at running the country during Covid. Any decision made in one direction would have had implications for others, I don't think there was any "right" path of choices. Yes, they managed to mess an awful lot up, they lied, and money was squandered...but this was an unprecedented situation with non-experts in control.

 

If it wasn't Mone, someone else would've lined their pockets. If money had been directed at care homes, would money have still been given out to the self-employed? I'd much rather there was a reckoning for the lies and hate that fuelled Brexit or the disastrous Truss/Kwarteng budget that wasn't a budget.

 

See, I reckon there's a salient difference between incompetence and intent. Covid was a clusterfvck of ineptitude, Brexit and the £60billion fiscal hole were a choice to benefit the rich over the poor. I'd see those responsible for the latter getting a good gibbeting.

In terms of impact on Covid, I agree it was a pretty unprecedented situation and nobody got it right. And to that end I think the recent inquest was pretty stupid in concentrating so much on what it did.

 

But the bolded part of the quote holds and we should expect more. The actions of the tory Govt are so low that the most basic of expectations - not blatantly lying, not treating people like they are stupid, not making rules and immediately ignoring them themselves - are no longer expectations. I know I'm not disagreeing with you. And yes on the bear shitting in the woods, but they should still be called out for it (not the bear).

 

Agree on the rest of your post.

[bmt]

On the topic, I have only seen it once but 'Dr Strangelove' is ridiculously overrated.

[The Bear]

1 hour ago, bmt said:

On the topic, I have only seen it once but 'Dr Strangelove' is ridiculously overrated.

Once was enough for me. Dreadful film. 

[Langston]

Currently on a train and there’s a lad just got on, must be early 20s and he absolutely honks to the point it must be making the carriage uncomfortable. 
 

You should be allowed to tell someone they pong to such an extent.

[Foxdiamond]

On 14/12/2023 at 11:16, Daggers said:

This is probably exceptionally unpopular with those who share my political leanings - but I don't reckon anyone would have done much better at running the country during Covid. Any decision made in one direction would have had implications for others, I don't think there was any "right" path of choices. Yes, they managed to mess an awful lot up, they lied, and money was squandered...but this was an unprecedented situation with non-experts in control.

 

If it wasn't Mone, someone else would've lined their pockets. If money had been directed at care homes, would money have still been given out to the self-employed? I'd much rather there was a reckoning for the lies and hate that fuelled Brexit or the disastrous Truss/Kwarteng budget that wasn't a budget.

 

See, I reckon there's a salient difference between incompetence and intent. Covid was a clusterfvck of ineptitude, Brexit and the £60billion fiscal hole were a choice to benefit the rich over the poor. I'd see those responsible for the latter getting a good gibbeting.

It has been reported that there was a plan to deal with  a pandemic but after Brexit this was damaged by the resources being diverted 

[Wymsey]

Patients should be fined a nominal fee if they do not attend an appointment on 3 occasions.

 

Imagine how much that'd raise the NHS ££..

[kenny]

7 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Patients should be fined a nominal fee if they do not attend an appointment on 3 occasions.

 

Imagine how much that'd raise the NHS ££..

Each and every time.

[Parafox]

13 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Patients should be fined a nominal fee if they do not attend an appointment on 3 occasions.

 

Imagine how much that'd raise the NHS ££..

 

5 minutes ago, kenny said:

Each and every time.

 

I imagine this idea has been raised many times by NHS and GP trusts.

 

There must be a reason it hasn't been taken forward. Ironically some people become too unwell to attend appointments, or recover such that there is no need to attend.

 

In the latter case, there should be a direct way of cancelling via some link to the clinic/surgery with a confirmation of the cancellation by return email.

 

I had a fractured finger about a year ago. I attended the follow up appointment where all was going well. I was given another follow up appt for 6 weeks later. The consultant told me that if I felt it unnecessary to attend the follow up, I could cancel.

 

I emailed the outpatients clerical team to cancel as it wasn't required. I heard nothing back until I got a letter accusing me of non- attendance and that my GP would be informed which meant I could need his referral for any visits in future. In other words a clinical practitioner in A&E would not be able to refer me to any consultant without my GP validating it. 

[kenny]

34 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

 

I imagine this idea has been raised many times by NHS and GP trusts.

 

There must be a reason it hasn't been taken forward. Ironically some people become too unwell to attend appointments, or recover such that there is no need to attend.

 

In the latter case, there should be a direct way of cancelling via some link to the clinic/surgery with a confirmation of the cancellation by return email.

 

I had a fractured finger about a year ago. I attended the follow up appointment where all was going well. I was given another follow up appt for 6 weeks later. The consultant told me that if I felt it unnecessary to attend the follow up, I could cancel.

 

I emailed the outpatients clerical team to cancel as it wasn't required. I heard nothing back until I got a letter accusing me of non- attendance and that my GP would be informed which meant I could need his referral for any visits in future. In other words a clinical practitioner in A&E would not be able to refer me to any consultant without my GP validating it. 

It's almost impossible to cancel an appointment once it's made.

 

I suspect it's all part of the ethos of the NHS being free at point of use, there isn't the culture of money collection like there is when you use foreign hospitals.

[Daggers]

4 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Patients should be fined a nominal fee if they do not attend an appointment on 3 occasions.

 

Imagine how much that'd raise the NHS ££..

And yet imagine for a moment you are suffering from a MH problem and you have a crisis when having to leave the house on your own to attend a surgery, one where the phone isn’t answered for up to a couple of hours. Or that public transport lets you down. 
 

And imagine for a second that the real issue is not people failing to attend appointments but the chronic underfunding of services and the ridiculous way GP services are now run.

[Dunge]

Yeah, I believe the idea of fining people for failing to attend appointments is one of those that sounds great in principle but has negative effects in practice. You’d have admin, debt collection, all serving the scare the nervous and needy and incite the aggressive. I think it would backfire a lot in a number of ways and should be avoided. 

[Parafox]

6 hours ago, kenny said:

It's almost impossible to cancel an appointment once it's made.

 

I suspect it's all part of the ethos of the NHS being free at point of use, there isn't the culture of money collection like there is when you use foreign hospitals.

If that's the case, why sanction someone for non- attendance?

 

The letter I received stated that each non-attendance costs the NHS  £x amount and that someone else could have filled my appointment slot. Well, OK, make it easier to cancel. 

 

Just imagine, if the outpatient clerical team had acted upon my cancellation, they could have reduced the waiting list by one.

 

Extrapolate that over genuine cancellations per day, per year, per clinic per NHS area. Thousands, potentially.

 

Don't sanction patients, sort the process out. Make it simple.

 

 

 

 

[Sly]

 

The NHS is just an absolute mess. 
 

Trying to phone the doctors is a lottery.

 

2 year+ waiting times for an appointment, with them recommending you go private. Where the same doctors (as they’re double shifting) might see you a bit quicker for an extra £££££s.

Terrible planning and waste of money. Im

convinced they get enough, they just pee it up the wall tackling issues rather than root causes.

 

Overworked, underpaid staff.

 

Cancelling anything is an absolute nightmare, rearranging is impossible. 

[Sly]

I agree on your post by the @Daggers.

 

I don’t think anyone could really do wrong, for trying to do right during the initial Covid outbreak. 
 

I’m not surprised by some of the information that’s come out, regarding conversations. Where people sit on the morality scale, is what gauges their opinion on what was discussed. 
 

Unfortunately, it must have been rough and they were making decisions on the fly, as the information was changing so frequently as we were learning on the go and from the mistakes everyone was making.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

Truss destroyed the country and that’s a joke. I’d rather have seen a complete reform in how this country operates if a PM resigns / passes away whilst  in post, as this has been an absolute cluster this Conservative government with the chopping and changing (that is coming from someone who voted as a Conservative but not a lover of Boris). The entire infighting and lies of Brexit needed better addressing like you alluded to as well.

 

My personal opinion, not sure if it’s unpopular, is that is a PM can no longer serve, we go back to an election process.

[Jon the Hat]

On 14/12/2023 at 19:16, Daggers said:

This is probably exceptionally unpopular with those who share my political leanings - but I don't reckon anyone would have done much better at running the country during Covid. Any decision made in one direction would have had implications for others, I don't think there was any "right" path of choices. Yes, they managed to mess an awful lot up, they lied, and money was squandered...but this was an unprecedented situation with non-experts in control.

 

If it wasn't Mone, someone else would've lined their pockets. If money had been directed at care homes, would money have still been given out to the self-employed? I'd much rather there was a reckoning for the lies and hate that fuelled Brexit or the disastrous Truss/Kwarteng budget that wasn't a budget.

 

See, I reckon there's a salient difference between incompetence and intent. Covid was a clusterfvck of ineptitude, Brexit and the £60billion fiscal hole were a choice to benefit the rich over the poor. I'd see those responsible for the latter getting a good gibbeting.

Yes I think you are right.  Some people also need to get their head round the fact that decisions are made every day on how to spend money in the NHS and care, and those have consequences on people life expectancy.  Covid certainly made some of those decisions more consequential, but not really very different.  As I understand it, NICE literally use formulae which take into account the amount of life saved in terms of months or years, so senior public health people are used to the idea of saving this group over that group, and inevitably a younger group wins out of over an older one simply on months of live saved.

[Sly]

I think the line is also, power leads to corruption.

 

MPs across all parties have done some dodgy stuff. it’s more about the person, than the party at that point.

 

Look back pre this current farcical setup of a government (although it’s less of a circus in my opinion since Rishi took over).

 

Cash for influence

Cash for questions

Cash for accesses

Bury bad news after 9/11

Expenses scandal 

Keith Vaz

Iraq war

Jowellgate

Cash for honours

Expenses scandal

Red Sky Scandal

Cash for access

Piggate

Windrush

Arms to Iraq

Jeffrey Archer

Lavender List

Suez crisis

Marconi scandal

 

Different parties, different times,

People doing dodgy stuff. 

 

 

[Daggers]

People should have to take an exam in civility and manners. Fail and you should only be allowed to book cruises and flights with Ryanair. 
 

Ignorant people should never be allowed to fly with brand carriers. 
 

I got a severe tutting because I blocked the stairs to help a man who’d clearly had a stroke and was struggling with the steps and his bag. What a bunch of dicks. 

[FoyleFox]

49 minutes ago, Daggers said:

People should have to take an exam in civility and manners. Fail and you should only be allowed to book cruises and flights with Ryanair. 
 

Ignorant people should never be allowed to fly with brand carriers. 
 

I got a severe tutting because I blocked the stairs to help a man who’d clearly had a stroke and was struggling with the steps and his bag. What a bunch of dicks. 

Fail and you shouldn't be allowed out. 

[Mike Oxlong]

9 hours ago, Daggers said:

People should have to take an exam in civility and manners. Fail and you should only be allowed to book cruises and flights with Ryanair. 
 

Ignorant people should never be allowed to fly with brand carriers. 
 

I got a severe tutting because I blocked the stairs to help a man who’d clearly had a stroke and was struggling with the steps and his bag. What a bunch of dicks. 

Flight back from Amsterdam ? I bet he wasn’t the only one  

Edited 19 December 2023 by Mike Oxlong