Palace Home Post-Match 0-3

[Clever Fox]

55 minutes ago, Beechey said:

How bad must Dragovic be for us to not trust him with centre back rotation? I'm struggling to see why we haven't seen him yet.

I hear what you're saying but I don't think that is the reason. We have Morgan who is Captain so not easy or likely to be dropped. then you have Maguire, a new signing, although not the greatest defender is still learning. but his all round game is perceived to offer more to the Team. I haven't seen much of Drago but I think he's an old style bustling CB.

So unless he can play FB or we go 3 at the back his chances are going to be limited.

[Beechey]

4 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

I hear what you're saying but I don't think that is the reason. We have Morgan who is Captain so not easy or likely to be dropped. then you have Maguire, a new signing, although not the greatest defender is still learning. but his all round game is perceived to offer more to the Team. I haven't seen much of Drago but I think he's an old style bustling CB.

So unless he can play FB or we go 3 at the back his chances are going to be limited.

He seems more of a ball playing CB to me, which I would have thought suits Puel. I don't think Morgan can keep up this level of intensity though, even if he's just rotated for one game, it gives him a week to recover.

 

 

Edited 18 December 2017 by Beechey

[foxy boxing]

just such a shame after our recent good run for a bad performance like that!. it just goes to show that Puel still has a lot of work to do, yes he has done many great things but he must continue to evolve and adapt as a manager. maybe some of the players were suffering from fatigue but we have a lot of games coming up in a short space of time and Puel will have to utilize the whole squad to give certain players a rest to keep them fresh while at the same time not diminishing the squad. hopefully the confidence of the players won't be destabilized by a big home defeat and can regroup to go on another run.

[Suzie the Fox]

2 hours ago, RonnieTodger said:

Turns out my birthday is the same day as Ndidi's. At least his was worse. 

 

As petulant and ****ing irritating as Martin Atkinson was, the only major decision he got wrong was not giving Palace a penalty. I thought Ndidi's first yellow was a bit harsh but it's moronic to try and dive when you're on a yellow. Got what he deserved and so did Palace. Will be surprised if a top 6 club don't snap up Zaha next summer. 

Same day as my sons too  

[Winchesterfox]

I'd accept the tiredness argument mentioned earlier if we had faded in the second half.  But we were complacent and disorganised from the start.  

 

In the first picture below, when Palace scored their first goal, Maguire (our tallest defender) is on our left side marking no one.  It might look as if he's marking Zaha, but he isn't.  He has no idea where Zaha is when the ball comes over.  Simpson (our shortest defender) is in the middle of the pitch standing the wrong side of Benteke (their tallest forward).  No one is on our right side picking up Loftus-Cheek if Schmeichel parries.  None of our defenders jump for the ball and Benteke has a free header to score.  

 

 

In the second picture below, taken shortly afterwards, Leicester break but Palace have a clear back line and midfielders close by.  They look much better organised all match.

 

 

In the third picture below, a few minutes later, Zaha makes a run and takes out three defenders on the left.  None of them is Chilwell, who is ball watching out of shot.  Simpson is again marking Benteke in the middle, and again Loftus-Cheek is in lots of space.  

 

 

In the fourth picture below, in the run up to the second goal, Mahrez has lost the ball.  He's not in the picture because he hasn't bothered tracking back.  Maguire (nearest the goal) should have it covered.  But he doesn't, because he's only looking at the ball.  Zaha is about to move to his right, but Maguire hasn't noticed, even though he's right in front of him.  Chilwell on the left of the goal is running back, but not flat out.

 

 

In the fifth picture below, Benteke plays an easy pass to Zaha.  Maguire is on his heels and realises the danger too late.   Zaha runs past him.  Chilwell picks up speed but it's too late.  Zaha steps past him and scores.  

 

 

These are just the defensive problems - there are others.  We shouldn't overreact to one bad match after a good run, but we also shouldn't blame tiredness, the referee, the lunchtime kick-off or anything else.  We were well beaten because we have some things to sort out.  I trust Puel and the players to do that.  

 

Edited 18 December 2017 by Winchesterfox

[Bluetintedspecs]

Excellent post @Winchesterfox and sadly I cannot disagree!

Edited 18 December 2017 by Bluetintedspecs

[CosbehFox]

Tiredness is as much mental as physical. Those clips show moments of the games where players lack the mental application to organise themselves. 

[Foxhateram]

22 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Tiredness is as much mental as physical. Those clips show moments of the games where players lack the mental application to organise themselves. 

Give over. Most of this squad played 2 games a week, every week, in our Championship squad and during the champs league. Tiredness should not be an issue for these elite athletes. No point moaning about the schedule, its been the same for many a year and we should be prepares for it. The sports science team should and will have techniques to help us recover quickly, we just didn't turn up, full stop. No excuses, face it and move on. 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

5 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

You will come the end of the festive period because there’s going to be some real odd results crop up. The schedule is ridiculous with teams playing virtually every midweek and weekend in December. Then television has made some of this completely lob sided.

I agree that over the forthcoming period it may well be the case that fatigue is an issue.

 

I don’t feel it’s a valid excuse for being piss poor on Saturday. 

 

Was Iborra tired? 

 

No.

 

He didn’t play in the week but he played awfully though on Saturday. Same with the two other outfield players who missed the Soton game. Tiredness cannot be used as excuse.

 

Tactics, and poor team selection the more likely cause for the lamentable performance imo.

 

Dropping / resting in form players,

in this case Okazaki, who is full of confidence and playing out of his skin makes no sense whatsoever.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

1 hour ago, Foxhateram said:

Give over. Most of this squad played 2 games a week, every week, in our Championship squad and during the champs league. Tiredness should not be an issue for these elite athletes. No point moaning about the schedule, its been the same for many a year and we should be prepares for it. The sports science team should and will have techniques to help us recover quickly, we just didn't turn up, full stop. No excuses, face it and move on. 

Correct

[Col city fan]

Tiredness is an utter bollox argument.

Palace a. Set up much better than we did. b. Wanted it much more than we did

Thats why we lost

[Carl the Llama]

Take it nobody dismissing fatigue in here has ever made a silly error at work that they wouldn't normally make following a tough run of shifts?

[Wymsey]

Actually see Chilwell more-suited as an attacking defender; thought he showed his potential at times in this match, but too casual and sloppy in other times.

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, Foxhateram said:

Give over. Most of this squad played 2 games a week, every week, in our Championship squad and during the champs league. Tiredness should not be an issue for these elite athletes. No point moaning about the schedule, its been the same for many a year and we should be prepares for it. The sports science team should and will have techniques to help us recover quickly, we just didn't turn up, full stop. No excuses, face it and move on. 

Championship or Champions League never had a schedule of constant midweek/weekend fixtures like this December. We also rotated a lot in both examples which we simply failed to do on Saturday. It contributed to a flat performance where we consistently made bad decisions and we were second to every ball. To add we very, very rarely ever played Wednesday to Saturday in either the Championship or the Champions League. To top it off Wednesday's squad had a delayed recovery session due to their delayed route back home and had literally a single training session to work on setting up for Palace. 

 

By the way if you look at my original point (You will come the end of the festive period because there’s going to be some real odd results crop up. The schedule is ridiculous with teams playing virtually every midweek and weekend in December. Then television has made some of this completely lob sided.), I wasn't excusing us, as a whole I honestly believe this schedule is madness for all clubs and we will find performances from teams like this becoming the norm. When it hits June/July, no Premier League player will shine at the World Cup. This December is an absolute disgrace to the sport - Football is the only sport what makes it's players go through 100% stress for prolonged periods. It's a constantly paced game involving short sprints and the players are mentally always thinking.

 

We play on the 23rd this year at  7.45pm - 24th pm will be recovery, 25th am will be training session/tactics for Watford, 25th pm travellling. You take into account comparable sports; no other sport does it. The nearest sport to it in terms of stop start sprinting is Basketball and the clock duration is 40 minutes where substitutes are constantly in use. Other sports on pitches as larger as football never have midweek fixtures. Finally, we are the only country doing it and those want do have festive fixtures are having a break in January. Personally I don't believe in a January break, so simple scheduling would be suffice. 

 

 

 

 

[harpendenfox]

All this December fixture congestion to give us a chance to prepare for the World Cup. Where no doubt we will be lamentable. 

[ealingfox]

Fatigue definitely does come into it. 

[SystonFox]

2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Take it nobody dismissing fatigue in here has ever made a silly error at work that they wouldn't normally make following a tough run of shifts?

But did you catch a bus back from Southampton two days previously when you were supposed to fly a plane?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(post is tongue in cheek in case anyone is unsure)

[Donut]

I wouldnt just dismiss the tiredness issue.

 

Two back to back aways when palace had two home games, palace had an extra days rest, plus we have a few more senior players on our side too that probably need close management physically.

 

Definitely not THE reason we lost but a factor somewhere in it

[jonny fox]

think we must have had the christmas party on friday night the players just were not up for it against palace off the pace poor passing hardly any shots no desire was there a bust up before the game it didnt seem right

[Free Falling Foxes]

Keith Hackett - retired ref, dismisses tiredness. He states: 'These guys specialise in high-intensity running. The days of professionals getting tired are long gone.'

 

Full piece here :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/12/17/harry-kane-dele-alli-should-have-sent-man-city-terrible-weekend/

[Winchesterfox]

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Championship or Champions League never had a schedule of constant midweek/weekend fixtures like this December. We also rotated a lot in both examples which we simply failed to do on Saturday. It contributed to a flat performance where we consistently made bad decisions and we were second to every ball. To add we very, very rarely ever played Wednesday to Saturday in either the Championship or the Champions League. To top it off Wednesday's squad had a delayed recovery session due to their delayed route back home and had literally a single training session to work on setting up for Palace. 

 

By the way if you look at my original point (You will come the end of the festive period because there’s going to be some real odd results crop up. The schedule is ridiculous with teams playing virtually every midweek and weekend in December. Then television has made some of this completely lob sided.), I wasn't excusing us, as a whole I honestly believe this schedule is madness for all clubs and we will find performances from teams like this becoming the norm. When it hits June/July, no Premier League player will shine at the World Cup. This December is an absolute disgrace to the sport - Football is the only sport what makes it's players go through 100% stress for prolonged periods. It's a constantly paced game involving short sprints and the players are mentally always thinking.

 

We play on the 23rd this year at  7.45pm - 24th pm will be recovery, 25th am will be training session/tactics for Watford, 25th pm travellling. You take into account comparable sports; no other sport does it. The nearest sport to it in terms of stop start sprinting is Basketball and the clock duration is 40 minutes where substitutes are constantly in use. Other sports on pitches as larger as football never have midweek fixtures. Finally, we are the only country doing it and those want do have festive fixtures are having a break in January. Personally I don't believe in a January break, so simple scheduling would be suffice. 

 

 

 

 

 

Cardiff_Fox I completely agree the fixture schedule is over the top this Christmas, that players will be knackered at the end of it, and there are likely to be some odd results.  I just don't think it's much of an excuse just yet.  Let's look at the stats.  By this date last December, we'd played 23 competitive matches (17 Premier League and 6 Champions League), including five matches in December.  So far this year, we've only played 18 competitive matches (all Premier League), including four in December.  I've not included reserve team fixtures like the Carabao Cup, but even if I had, we played more last year.  And last year, eight of our ten Champions League fixtures were either three days before or three days after another competitive match, and we had a great run.  Playing Wednesday evening and then Saturday lunchtime this week wasn't great, but we need to be mentally and physically strong enough and well enough organised to cope with that, but on Saturday we just weren't.  I appreciate opinions differ though.  

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Keith Hackett - retired ref, dismisses tiredness. He states: 'These guys specialise in high-intensity running. The days of professionals getting tired are long gone.'

 

Full piece here :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/12/17/harry-kane-dele-alli-should-have-sent-man-city-terrible-weekend/

What’s his qualification to make that statement? That he ran around a pitch with players in 90s and early 2000s?

 

Heres a way of putting. 100m sprinters completely shape their season and training to competition sprinting. This means they very rarely actually do an actual sprint for weeks and weeks until competition. 

 

Footballers sprint at 100% intensity again and again over 90 minutes. 

[lancyclaret]

Hard to believe no team has "crunched" Zaha recently - Palace's revival is mainly down to him (penalties deserved or not deserved).

 

Huddersfield got it right in the season opener - a number of tasty tackles saw Zaha sidelined for about 6 weeks and cost De Boer his job.

 

Maybe Bardsley will do a job on Zaha on Jan 13....take one for the team with Lowton coming back in at right-back.

 

Palace would be bottom three if WZ was sidelined for 10/12 games and all their rivals know  it. If Zaha plays every game they have a great chance of top half.

Edited 19 December 2017 by lancyclaret