whoareyaaa Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 3 minutes ago, Countryfox said: I think we have already seen progression ... a young team with a solid core who imo will only improve .... and a lot of dead wood to be moved out. I don't think much progression has been made really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubbins Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 20 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said: Not many managers get a couple of seasons these days in the top flight without progression especially when big money is being spent, if the owners don't see any progression then im sure he will be gone by the end of the season As a midtable club there's not a lot of room for progression (horrible football buzz word btw) though. If you accept that getting into the top six consistently is not really feasible where can you really go. All three of last seasons relegated clubs have tried to move to the next level over the years and eventually just like we inevitably will at some point, they have ended up back in the championship. Our time in this division will only ever be temporary so maybe we should moan less about being a decent side in one of the world's toughest leagues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_danbury Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 how about kenny jackett? seem to remember him being very good. or maybe mcclazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunyip Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 32 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: Judge MON with his record, imagining it occurring 2 or 3 seasons after the title win, and it's slightly less sexy. Puel is not perfect, but he's trying to develop us longer term. He's having to clear up a lot of mess. Well if we are going to imagine, Imagine if O'Neil had the owners we have now and the money to go with it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubbins Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 6 minutes ago, Bunyip said: Well if we are going to imagine, Imagine if O'Neil had the owners we have now and the money to go with it? So all we need to do is identify the modern day O Neil... A difficult task assuming one even exists today. Certainly the rarity with which the title threads question is answered seems to suggest it's not obvious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoareyaaa Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 33 minutes ago, Gubbins said: As a midtable club there's not a lot of room for progression (horrible football buzz word btw) though. If you accept that getting into the top six consistently is not really feasible where can you really go. All three of last seasons relegated clubs have tried to move to the next level over the years and eventually just like we inevitably will at some point, they have ended up back in the championship. Our time in this division will only ever be temporary so maybe we should moan less about being a decent side in one of the world's toughest leagues? understood but why should the top 6 remain the top 6 the 14 other teams may as well not bother turning up, we proved that with the right setup the unthinkable can be done so breaking into the top 6 shouldn't be seen as such a huge task it just requires a good manager, a good squad (which we should have as money isn't exactly a big problem for us) we can't just expect to finish mid table then end back up in the Championship 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevosevic Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 4 minutes ago, Gubbins said: So all we need to do is identify the modern day O Neil... A difficult task assuming one even exists today. Certainly the rarity with which the title threads question is answered seems to suggest it's not obvious. By modern day MON do you mean consistently finishing in the top half with a mixed bag of results? Puel's 8th and 9th place finishes suggest he would give us those MON type finishes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubbins Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said: understood but why should the top 6 remain the top 6 the 14 other teams may as well not bother turning up, we proved that with the right setup the unthinkable can be done so breaking into the top 6 shouldn't be seen as such a huge task it just requires a good manager, a good squad (which we should have as money isn't exactly a big problem for us) we can't just expect to finish mid table then end back up in the Championship But the answer to that judging by a lot of people on here is to fire the manager and presumably keep firing the manager in the hope we stumble upon the next Pochettino. A strategy which is far more likely to eventually get us relegated. The pool of managers who could do what you're asking will be very small. Edited 25 October 2018 by Gubbins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubbins Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 7 minutes ago, Stevosevic said: By modern day MON do you mean consistently finishing in the top half with a mixed bag of results? Puel's 8th and 9th place finishes suggest he would give us those MON type finishes. Overall I agree with what you've put here. I think that's roughly where we'll finish under puel and I'm fine with that. I do think peak era O Neil, given our current resources, would probably do a better job than Puel but I think finding a current day version of him would be near impossible and currently not worth the risk of getting it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 38 minutes ago, Bunyip said: Well if we are going to imagine, Imagine if O'Neil had the owners we have now and the money to go with it? A totally fair point, of course. Except I wasn't trying to belittle his achievements but make the point that context is important in this. Ranieri and Shakespeare will, naturally enough, get less blame in retrospect because they're both associated with the title win. Trying to help @Babylon out a bit, as he's working very hard to remain reasonable in the face of some intransigence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Babylon Posted 25 October 2018 Popular Post Share Posted 25 October 2018 Just an interesting stat for the "Counter attack please, this football is boring brigade"... we've scored 4 counter attacks this season, that's the same number we got in the entire 16/17 season when Puel wasn't here. Last season we got 7 counters (third highest in the league), again more than 16/17 and two more than the title winning season. We've kept that side of the game, what we need to do is just work on creating more open play shots from the extra possession. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 3 minutes ago, Countryfox said: Impressive statting there Babs ... I’ve got this image in my mind of how you look ... pretty close I’ll bet eh ! ... Thankfully there are websites that give out those stats... and no... not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 2 minutes ago, Babylon said: Thankfully there are websites that give out those stats... and no... not even close. Ah ... much more spotty and thicker glasses ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 2 minutes ago, Countryfox said: Ah ... much more spotty and thicker glasses ... Nah... more like a Rodger Federer with short hair who has been retired for a few years and likes a beer and a curry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwichfox Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 ` More like this? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Stevosevic said: By modern day MON do you mean consistently finishing in the top half with a mixed bag of results? Puel's 8th and 9th place finishes suggest he would give us those MON type finishes. As another poster alluded to though, M.O'Neill's 8th-10th place finishes in the late 90s/2000 (and winning a couple of League Cups plus appearances in the UEFA to follow) came along when expectations weren't high, this after years of being mostly in the Championship - save for our one season in the then Premiership which resulted in instant relegation in 1994/95 no less under Little then McGhee. So expectations back then when M.O'Neill was here were nowhere near what they have become since we did the unthinkable three seasons ago, which I guess is why people are perhaps disillusioned that Puel is only achieving what M.O'Neill did in essence - even if the football isn't as enterprising as it was under O'Neill and the fact that we haven't won a cup. I also never rated many of O'Neill's big buy purchases - whereas his bargain basement ones (Kasey Keller, Spencer Prior, Steve Claridge, Steve Guppy, Neil Lennon, Muzzy Izzet, Matty Elliot, etc) all shone! That is also possibly why the O'Neill philosophy would no longer work within the club in it's current capacity, expectation levels included. Who's to say? Edited 25 October 2018 by Guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 26 minutes ago, Babylon said: Just an interesting stat for the "Counter attack please, this football is boring brigade"... we've scored 4 counter attacks this season, that's the same number we got in the entire 16/17 season when Puel wasn't here. Last season we got 7 counters (third highest in the league), again more than 16/17 and two more than the title winning season. We've kept that side of the game, what we need to do is just work on creating more open play shots from the extra possession. That is a proper fookin' stat, revealing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 17 minutes ago, norwichfox said: ` More like this? That meant to be a character from Trumpton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosbehFox Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 1 hour ago, Bunyip said: Well if we are going to imagine, Imagine if O'Neil had the owners we have now and the money to go with it? He’d have left because he did. The summer he left we had a decent budget and a new stadium half built. A real shame that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 6 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said: He’d have left because he did. The summer he left we had a decent budget and a new stadium half built. A real shame that. Then along came you know who...…..!...….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyN11 Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 33 minutes ago, Guy said: As another poster alluded to though, M.O'Neill's 8th-10th place finishes in the late 90s/2000 (and winning a couple of League Cups plus appearances in the UEFA to follow) came along when expectations weren't high, this after years of being mostly in the Championship - save for our one season in the then Premiership which resulted in instant relegation in 1994/95 no less under Little then McGhee. So expectations back then when M.O'Neill was here were nowhere near what they have become since we did the unthinkable three seasons ago, which I guess is why people are perhaps disillusioned that Puel is only achieving what M.O'Neill did in essence - even if the football isn't as enterprising as it was under O'Neill and the fact that we haven't won a cup. I also never rated many of O'Neill's big buy purchases - whereas his bargain basement ones (Kasey Keller, Spencer Prior, Steve Claridge, Steve Guppy, Neil Lennon, Muzzy Izzet, Matty Elliot, etc) all shone! That is also possibly why the O'Neill philosophy would no longer work within the club in it's current capacity, expectation levels included. Who's to say? I'm struggling to recall any big purchases by O'Neill - Savage maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosbehFox Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 6 minutes ago, TonyN11 said: I'm struggling to recall any big purchases by O'Neill - Savage maybe? Fenton (1.1m), Gunnlaugsson (2m), Eadie (3m) spring to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacreblueits442 Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 2 hours ago, whoareyaaa said: I think this is a tad harsh I don't think we was shit maybe devoid of ideas but the squad was largely built up of the title winning players, the season after the title win can probably be forgiven due to the fact we had just done the unthinkable then Shakey was given 8 games before Puel coming in against tough opposition … he has more or less taken apart that squad not all his doing and some of the players probably did lose a bit of something but the manager is there to get the best out of squad and I don't think he did that and not much progression has been made in terms of results or consistency. I still think its probably to early to judge him but I can't see him lasting long in all honestly, way to inconsistent .... No way he is leaving!! The owners need stability.... mid tale finishes are acceptable as we are about to invest in the infrastructure of the club financed by Premiership money. He will be here for the long haul..... doesn't matter what we think!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyN11 Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said: Fenton (1.1m), Gunnlaugsson (2m), Eadie (3m) spring to mind. I remembered Fenton just after I posted. Of those I only expected Eadie to be a 1st team player and the few times I saw him he looked good - serious injuries played their part unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 25 October 2018 Share Posted 25 October 2018 Just now, TonyN11 said: I remembered Fenton just after I posted. Of those I only expected Eadie to be a 1st team player and the few times I saw him he looked good - serious injuries played their part unfortunately Real shame about Eadie ... would have been great to watch ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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