Helicopter crash

[Vardinio'sCat]

 

Bit of context on the Airworthiness directive, described as precautionary,

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-46131682

Edited 7 November 2018 by Vardinio'sCat

[Farrington fox]

33 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

if that was the case though it seems fine beforehand from where it has come, landed fine etc so any act of sabotage surely would have had to happen prior to it taking back off which is very unlikely like you say.

The nut would have been in place in any event, what was probably missing would have been the split pin and wire locking, critical in preventing it from working loose over time, and eventually coming off. However all these theories are conjecture at the this stage. 

[Spudulike]

I'm surprised they haven't been grounded until the investigation is complete.

 

I wouldn't fly in one.

[OzFox]

7 hours ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

That alert is desperately sad. A single nut with a split pin and locking wire potentially failing, how can that happen? Sounds like someone f**d up.  Thanks to whoever found that forum, I'd rather know why, even if it won't bring them back.

 

A $2 nut as someone described it.

 

It does seem odd that the the nut, pin and locking wire would all be missing or have failed. And that safety inspections would have missed it. 

 

Most likely human error but I can see why they're wondering about security at Fairoaks. I imagine you don't get to be a billionaire without treading on a few toes. 

[The Syrup]

2 hours ago, Spudulike said:

I'm surprised they haven't been grounded until the investigation is complete.

 

I wouldn't fly in one.

Its the first crash of this type of helicopter. Unless theres genuine concern about a design flaw with the aircraft its doubtful it will be grounded. The EASA have issued a precautionary airworthiness directive https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-46131682

 

 

 

 

 

[Master Fox]

Considering it’s the first crash of this kind, I’m starting to suspect foul play. You can clearly see an explosion. A helicopter just doesn’t fall out of the sky like that.

 

 

[stripeyfox]

4 hours ago, Master Fox said:

Considering it’s the first crash of this kind, I’m starting to suspect foul play. You can clearly see an explosion. A helicopter just doesn’t fall out of the sky like that.

 

 

Well they do if there is a malfunction with the tail rotor....

 

Also - there is no evidence or suspicion of foul play as you call it

 

The AAIB are throughly investigating everything as they do with any incident. The aircraft manufacturer will cooperate with this process and most likely, they already have a very strong indication of the cause of the accident, as we can see by the manufacturer issuing the air worthiness directive.

 

 

 

Edited 12 November 2018 by stripeyfox

[The Year Of The Fox]

4 hours ago, Master Fox said:

Considering it’s the first crash of this kind, I’m starting to suspect foul play. You can clearly see an explosion. A helicopter just doesn’t fall out of the sky like that.

 

 

Foul play? 

 

Of course they’d drop out the sky ‘like that’ if the tail rotor fails

[stripeyfox]

6 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Foul play? 

 

Of course they’d drop out the sky ‘like that’ if the tail rotor fails

Exactly! 

[stripeyfox]

6 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Foul play? 

 

Of course they’d drop out the sky ‘like that’ if the tail rotor fails

Exactly! 

 

 

[Smudge]

7 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Foul play? 

 

Of course they’d drop out the sky ‘like that’ if the tail rotor fails

It's my understanding that if the helicopter had forward motion, even if the rear rotor failed, they might have been able to auto-rotate to the ground. The fin would have provided some stability 

The fact that he was hovering when the rear rotor apparently failed, caused the aircraft to go into an uncontrollable spin.

Edited 12 November 2018 by Smudge

[The Year Of The Fox]

20 minutes ago, Smudge said:

It's my understanding that if the helicopter had forward motion, even if the rear rotor failed, they might have been able to auto-rotate to the ground. The fin would have provided some stability 

The fact that he was hovering when the rear rotor apparently failed, caused the aircraft to go into an uncontrollable spin.

Yes, you’re right. I didn’t expand enough, was too busy laughing (for want of a much better word) at the thought of foul play 

[stripeyfox]

40 minutes ago, Smudge said:

It's my understanding that if the helicopter had forward motion, even if the rear rotor failed, they might have been able to auto-rotate to the ground. The fin would have provided some stability 

The fact that he was hovering when the rear rotor apparently failed, caused the aircraft to go into an uncontrollable spin.

Yes, I think this is correct

 

The AAIB have some huge pluses with this investigation which they don't always have, such as:

 

- The wreck of the aircraft

- Access to the undisturbed accident site

- Eyewitness accounts

- Documented video evidence of the take off, flight and crash

- data from the flight data recorder

 

I'm not an expert, but I would be amazed if they didn't already have a very good idea of what went wrong here. 

 

 

[joachim1965]

1 hour ago, Smudge said:

It's my understanding that if the helicopter had forward motion, even if the rear rotor failed, they might have been able to auto-rotate to the ground. The fin would have provided some stability 

The fact that he was hovering when the rear rotor apparently failed, caused the aircraft to go into an uncontrollable spin.

Don't think they had enough height to be able to do that unfortunately. 

[Smudge]

57 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

Don't think they had enough height to be able to do that unfortunately. 

I believe that it depends on the height/velocity curve of the AW169, I couldn't find one to show you. But here is one for a Bell.

In all cases below 800 ft, forward velocity is a must for autorotation.

For example In this aircraft, you could be as low as 250ft as long as you have forward velocity in excess of 40 kts airspeed.

 

 

[joachim1965]

1 hour ago, Smudge said:

I believe that it depends on the height/velocity curve of the AW169, I couldn't find one to show you. But here is one for a Bell.

In all cases below 800 ft, forward velocity is a must for autorotation.

For example In this aircraft, you could be as low as 250ft as long as you have forward velocity in excess of 40 kts airspeed.

 

 

That makes sense, looks like 800ft is the absolute minimum height without forward motion.

[urban.spaceman]

Leicester City helicopter 'did not respond to pilot's command'

Pete White The AW169 helicopter, pictured here landing at the stadium after the game

The helicopter that crashed outside Leicester City's stadium, killing five people, did not respond to the pilot's command, initial findings show.

Club chairman Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha and four others died when the aircraft came down after a match on 27 October.

The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) said the helicopter started to turn right "contrary to the pilot's left pedal command".

It added the cause of the apparent loss of control is still being investigated.

The widely shared footage shows the helicopter taking off

Widely shared video footage, taken inside the stadium, shows the AgustaWestland AW169 climbing normally for about 40 seconds, before it pauses and goes into a downward spin.

Safety checks have been ordered on helicopters of a similar design to the one involved in the crash, and an investigation of the tail rotor control system is being "carried out as a priority".

In a Special Bulletin, the AAIB said the helicopter embarked on its first flight of the day from Fairoaks Airport in Surrey with the pilot and one passenger on board.

It later landed at London Heliport in Battersea where three more passengers boarded. The aircraft then flew to the Belvoir Drive Training Ground in Leicester and those on board went to the King Power Stadium.

• Latest news and stories from the East Midlands

Getty Images/Facebook/Instagram (L-R): Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, Kaveporn Punpare, Nusara Suknamai, Izabela Roza Lechowicz and Eric Swaffer were killed in the crash

The pilot and one passenger then went back to the training ground and flew the aircraft back to the stadium.

Five people in total - Mr Vichai, two members of his staff, Kaveporn Punpare and Nusara Suknamai, pilot Eric Swaffer and passenger Izabela Roza Lechowicz - then boarded the aircraft which was due to fly to Stansted Airport.

After taking off, the helicopter "entered an increasing right yaw contrary to the pilot's left pedal command".

Yaw is the ability of a vehicle to rotate from left to right.

It reached an estimated height of 430ft (121.9m) before it descended and crashed in an "approximately upright position".

The wreckage from the crash has been taken to a facility in Farnborough, Hampshire.

An inquest heard there was "minimal chance" for anyone on board the helicopter to survive.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-46208494

[stripeyfox]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5bebe118e5274a083e73dc27/S1-2018_G-VSKP.pdf

 

History of the flight

The helicopter took off on its first flight of the day from Fairoaks Airport, Surrey, at 1340 hrs on Saturday 27 October 2018. The pilot and one passenger were on board. At 1404 hrs the helicopter landed at London Heliport (Battersea) where three additional passengers boarded. The helicopter then lifted off from Battersea at 1414 hrs and flew to the Belvoir Drive Training Ground, Leicester, landing at 1459 hrs. The helicopter was shut down at the training ground and all persons on board went to the King Power Stadium, Leicester. The pilot and one passenger returned to the training ground at 1837 hrs and at 1844 hrs the helicopter lifted off, with two persons on board, for the short flight to the King Power Stadium, 1 nm to the north. The approach to the King Power Stadium was made from a southerly direction. After landing, the helicopter parked on the centre circle of the pitch, on a north-easterly heading, and was shut down at 1847 hrs. The pilot and passenger left the helicopter. Between 1900 hrs and 1930 hrs the pilot and four passengers boarded the helicopter for a flight to London Stansted Airport. The helicopter started up at 1934 hrs and at 1937 hrs it lifted from the centre circle, yawed 15° left and moved forward a few metres. The helicopter then began a climb on a rearward flight path2 while maintaining a northerly heading. Gear retraction started as it passed through a height of approximately 320 ft. The climb then paused. Heading changes consistent with the direction of pedal movements were recorded initially, then the helicopter entered an increasing right yaw contrary to the pilot’s left pedal command. The helicopter reached a radio height3 of approximately 430 ft before descending with a high rotation rate. The helicopter struck the ground in an approximately upright position on a stepped concrete surface, with the landing gear retracted, and rolled onto its left side. The helicopter was rapidly engulfed in an intense post-impact fire. Stadium staff and emergency services were quickly at the scene but were not able to gain access to the helicopter because of the intensity of the fire.

Edited 14 November 2018 by stripeyfox

[MC Prussian]

You can never rule out foul play, and it fuels the conspiracy theories.

 

What I find odd and more telling is that the helicopter did fine up until 6.47pm that fatal evening.

If there was foul play involved, surely the helicopter must‘ve shown signs of erratic behaviour earlier that day already, no?

 

Other than that, the roughly 13 minutes before the last take-off are probably of particular interest to the authorities.

[stripeyfox]

14 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

You can never rule out foul play, and it fuels the conspiracy theories.

 

What I find odd and more telling is that the helicopter did fine up until 6.47pm that fatal evening.

If there was foul play involved, surely the helicopter must‘ve shown signs of erratic behaviour earlier that day already, no?

 

Other than that, the roughly 13 minutes before the last take-off are probably of particular interest to the authorities.

Or, the sabotage would have had to have taken place whilst the chopper was parked in the middle of the pitch in full view of TV and security cameras. Not very likely I think!
 

 

[Ric Flair]

29 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5bebe118e5274a083e73dc27/S1-2018_G-VSKP.pdf

 

History of the flight

The helicopter took off on its first flight of the day from Fairoaks Airport, Surrey, at 1340 hrs on Saturday 27 October 2018. The pilot and one passenger were on board. At 1404 hrs the helicopter landed at London Heliport (Battersea) where three additional passengers boarded. The helicopter then lifted off from Battersea at 1414 hrs and flew to the Belvoir Drive Training Ground, Leicester, landing at 1459 hrs. The helicopter was shut down at the training ground and all persons on board went to the King Power Stadium, Leicester. The pilot and one passenger returned to the training ground at 1837 hrs and at 1844 hrs the helicopter lifted off, with two persons on board, for the short flight to the King Power Stadium, 1 nm to the north. The approach to the King Power Stadium was made from a southerly direction. After landing, the helicopter parked on the centre circle of the pitch, on a north-easterly heading, and was shut down at 1847 hrs. The pilot and passenger left the helicopter. Between 1900 hrs and 1930 hrs the pilot and four passengers boarded the helicopter for a flight to London Stansted Airport. The helicopter started up at 1934 hrs and at 1937 hrs it lifted from the centre circle, yawed 15° left and moved forward a few metres. The helicopter then began a climb on a rearward flight path2 while maintaining a northerly heading. Gear retraction started as it passed through a height of approximately 320 ft. The climb then paused. Heading changes consistent with the direction of pedal movements were recorded initially, then the helicopter entered an increasing right yaw contrary to the pilot’s left pedal command. The helicopter reached a radio height3 of approximately 430 ft before descending with a high rotation rate. The helicopter struck the ground in an approximately upright position on a stepped concrete surface, with the landing gear retracted, and rolled onto its left side. The helicopter was rapidly engulfed in an intense post-impact fire. Stadium staff and emergency services were quickly at the scene but were not able to gain access to the helicopter because of the intensity of the fire.

Those timing are wrong when the helicopter left Belvoir Drive to come to the KP Stadium, Our game didn't finish until around 7.20pm at the earliest. Are these timings and hour behind due to the clocks changing?

[stripeyfox]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Those timing are wrong when the helicopter left Belvoir Drive to come to the KP Stadium, Our game didn't finish until around 7.20pm at the earliest. Are these timings and hour behind due to the clocks changing?

Good spot. There is a footnote in the main report:

 

All times in this bulletin are UTC and have been taken from a variety of sources which have yet to be fully correlated. All times quoted should be taken as approximate at this stage.

 

 

[Aesc]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Those timing are wrong when the helicopter left Belvoir Drive to come to the KP Stadium, Our game didn't finish until around 7.20pm at the earliest. Are these timings and hour behind due to the clocks 

Yeah I would guess they got the timings from the 'black box' which I imagine would have had its timings set to Zulu/GMT, so they haven't amended for BST.

[Kopic]

https://news.sky.com/story/investigators-reveal-cause-of-leicester-city-helicopter-crash-11573217

 

Pretty much already known, but official announcement.

[urban.spaceman]

8 minutes ago, Kopic said:

https://news.sky.com/story/investigators-reveal-cause-of-leicester-city-helicopter-crash-11573217

 

Pretty much already known, but official announcement.

Now they need to figure out how the **** that happened in the 10 minutes it spent sitting on the pitch after a dozen safe flights earlier in the day.