gw_leics772 Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 I genuinely do not want a political debate for/against either side. I read more about it last night and joined some facebook groups and they all seem to be dominated by one side, even those that aren't supposed to be. I read that so many people have now changed their minds that the result will go the other way if there was a second vote, but this does not match my perception. Anyone i speak to, on either side has made their mind up and will not be turned. I get that some have died who voted leave have been replaced by young uns who will vote remain but again, most of the 'oldies' i know voted remain. I would be interested in people expanding and saying which one they have changed from and to, but beg that you dont let this turn into a leave vs remain as i am more interested in whether people have actually changed their mind, or are now eligible to vote, as im just not seeing what ive read being played out in the real world. Thanks
koop. Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 No I haven't changed my mind I voted leave and still want to leave (in the way it was intended) Granted it's an utter shambles but no, I knew what I was voting for and I would vote the same way again tomorrow
Voll Blau Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 Remain/Remain. I'm far more pro-Remain now than I was at the time.
Guest MattP Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 Voted leave, still leave. Even less enthusiastic about the EU than I was before, almost to the point now where I want to see collapse rather than closer integration and am looking forward to the amount of "populists" that will be elected to it next year.
rachhere Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 I guess there is a subtlety in what exactly you ask a person. There is a difference between supporting the ideology of Brexit and the opportunity to be independent of the EU and the reality of supporting what is practically being delivered by parliament.
AKCJ Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 I voted to remain because I didn't think the government wouldn't handle it even moderately well but would have been happy to leave if were in a better position to do so. If we were to vote again tomorrow i'd still vote to remain.
Arriba Los Zorros Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 Nobody who voted Remain will have changed their minds.
yorkie1999 Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 I didn't vote, and i still havn't changed my mind..... about voting being a weapon used by the elite to keep the downtrodden masses in their place.
bovril Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 As I've posted before I'm probably more Eurosceptic than I was before but also less likely to vote for Brexit. I still think it's a massive act of self harm that ignores most of the realities and practicalities of the modern world. That's just my opinion though, and I'm usually wrong.
urban.spaceman Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 I voted remain but now I just want to leave.
Innovindil Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 Voted leave and would probably vote leave again. Depends on what the next question would be. If it was between this current shambles of a deal and remain, then I'd probably side with remain.
davieG Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 Nine versions of a People’s Vote: how a referendum could look Freddie Sayers December 13 2018, 12:01am, The Times A “People’s Vote” has been presented as an outcome in itself but there are at least nine potential referendums. 1. SIMPLE REMAIN/LEAVE VOTE Fails to address the main argument for another vote, to explain what “leave” really means, and is open to the accusation that people are being asked again in the hope of getting a different result. Estimated result (based on average of past five polls by Kantar, ComRes and YouGov): Remain 52 per cent, Leave 48. 2. BINARY REFERENDUM: REMAIN V NO-DEAL BREXIT The argument for it is that if May’s compromise option is defeated it ceases to be an option, so the people should be offered the two visions. Estimated result (YouGov): Remain 52, Leave 48. 3. BINARY REFERENDUM: REMAIN V MAY’S DEAL The argument for this format is that this deal is the only realistic Brexit on offer. Estimated result (YouGov) Remain 50, Leave 50. 4. BINARY REFERENDUM: DEAL V NO DEAL Little chance of this — it would not get past MPs without a Remain option being included. Estimated result (YouGov): Deal 65, no deal 35. 5. TWO-STAGE REFERENDUM Remain v Leave, followed by a “deal or no deal” follow-up question if Leave wins. This suffers from a major flaw: if Leave wins the first question, it would be undemocratic to restrict the choice of what type of Brexit we have to Leave voters. Estimated result: Remain. 6. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (FIRST PAST THE POST) This would not happen as the Leave vote would be split in two, so the format is unfair. Estimated result: Remain 46.2 per cent, deal 27.1, no deal 26.6. 7. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (AV) Voters rank their preferences, the losing option is removed and its votes are reassigned until one option passes 50 per cent. Estimated result (YouGov): Inconclusive. 8. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (CONDORCET METHOD) Voters are asked to rank their preferences and then the results are reduced to three theoretical head-to-heads. Estimated result (YouGov): Inconclusive. 9. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (BUCKLIN VOTING) Voters rank their preferences and if one gains 50 per cent on the first round they win. If they don’t, all the second preferences count. Estimated result (YouGov) May’s deal wins, with 87.4 per cent acceding to it as first or second choice, compared with 55.9 per cent for Remain and 47.8 per cent for no deal. Freddie Sayers is the founder of PoliticsHome and a former editor-in-chief of YouGov.
yorkie1999 Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 2 minutes ago, davieG said: Nine versions of a People’s Vote: how a referendum could look Freddie Sayers December 13 2018, 12:01am, The Times A “People’s Vote” has been presented as an outcome in itself but there are at least nine potential referendums. 1. SIMPLE REMAIN/LEAVE VOTE Fails to address the main argument for another vote, to explain what “leave” really means, and is open to the accusation that people are being asked again in the hope of getting a different result. Estimated result (based on average of past five polls by Kantar, ComRes and YouGov): Remain 52 per cent, Leave 48. 2. BINARY REFERENDUM: REMAIN V NO-DEAL BREXIT The argument for it is that if May’s compromise option is defeated it ceases to be an option, so the people should be offered the two visions. Estimated result (YouGov): Remain 52, Leave 48. 3. BINARY REFERENDUM: REMAIN V MAY’S DEAL The argument for this format is that this deal is the only realistic Brexit on offer. Estimated result (YouGov) Remain 50, Leave 50. 4. BINARY REFERENDUM: DEAL V NO DEAL Little chance of this — it would not get past MPs without a Remain option being included. Estimated result (YouGov): Deal 65, no deal 35. 5. TWO-STAGE REFERENDUM Remain v Leave, followed by a “deal or no deal” follow-up question if Leave wins. This suffers from a major flaw: if Leave wins the first question, it would be undemocratic to restrict the choice of what type of Brexit we have to Leave voters. Estimated result: Remain. 6. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (FIRST PAST THE POST) This would not happen as the Leave vote would be split in two, so the format is unfair. Estimated result: Remain 46.2 per cent, deal 27.1, no deal 26.6. 7. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (AV) Voters rank their preferences, the losing option is removed and its votes are reassigned until one option passes 50 per cent. Estimated result (YouGov): Inconclusive. 8. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (CONDORCET METHOD) Voters are asked to rank their preferences and then the results are reduced to three theoretical head-to-heads. Estimated result (YouGov): Inconclusive. 9. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (BUCKLIN VOTING) Voters rank their preferences and if one gains 50 per cent on the first round they win. If they don’t, all the second preferences count. Estimated result (YouGov) May’s deal wins, with 87.4 per cent acceding to it as first or second choice, compared with 55.9 per cent for Remain and 47.8 per cent for no deal. Freddie Sayers is the founder of PoliticsHome and a former editor-in-chief of YouGov. Have you changed your mind then?
davieG Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 Just now, yorkie1999 said: Have you changed your mind then? No, just for people who feel we need another referendum to change their vote. It's not that simple and I'm not there yet.
foxy boxing Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 I think people have a massive fear of the unknown if we leave. people have no idea whatsoever of how Brexit will work or if it will work out or be a huge mistake. it is a massive fear. at least with the EU you know what you are going to get, you may or may not like it but you are basically in the know, with Brexit you pretty much don't know anything and that is extremely scary!.
gw_leics772 Posted 13 December 2018 Author Posted 13 December 2018 13 minutes ago, davieG said: Nine versions of a People’s Vote: how a referendum could look Freddie Sayers December 13 2018, 12:01am, The Times A “People’s Vote” has been presented as an outcome in itself but there are at least nine potential referendums. 1. SIMPLE REMAIN/LEAVE VOTE Fails to address the main argument for another vote, to explain what “leave” really means, and is open to the accusation that people are being asked again in the hope of getting a different result. Estimated result (based on average of past five polls by Kantar, ComRes and YouGov): Remain 52 per cent, Leave 48. 2. BINARY REFERENDUM: REMAIN V NO-DEAL BREXIT The argument for it is that if May’s compromise option is defeated it ceases to be an option, so the people should be offered the two visions. Estimated result (YouGov): Remain 52, Leave 48. 3. BINARY REFERENDUM: REMAIN V MAY’S DEAL The argument for this format is that this deal is the only realistic Brexit on offer. Estimated result (YouGov) Remain 50, Leave 50. 4. BINARY REFERENDUM: DEAL V NO DEAL Little chance of this — it would not get past MPs without a Remain option being included. Estimated result (YouGov): Deal 65, no deal 35. 5. TWO-STAGE REFERENDUM Remain v Leave, followed by a “deal or no deal” follow-up question if Leave wins. This suffers from a major flaw: if Leave wins the first question, it would be undemocratic to restrict the choice of what type of Brexit we have to Leave voters. Estimated result: Remain. 6. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (FIRST PAST THE POST) This would not happen as the Leave vote would be split in two, so the format is unfair. Estimated result: Remain 46.2 per cent, deal 27.1, no deal 26.6. 7. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (AV) Voters rank their preferences, the losing option is removed and its votes are reassigned until one option passes 50 per cent. Estimated result (YouGov): Inconclusive. 8. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (CONDORCET METHOD) Voters are asked to rank their preferences and then the results are reduced to three theoretical head-to-heads. Estimated result (YouGov): Inconclusive. 9. THREE-OPTION REFERENDUM REMAIN V DEAL V NO DEAL (BUCKLIN VOTING) Voters rank their preferences and if one gains 50 per cent on the first round they win. If they don’t, all the second preferences count. Estimated result (YouGov) May’s deal wins, with 87.4 per cent acceding to it as first or second choice, compared with 55.9 per cent for Remain and 47.8 per cent for no deal. Freddie Sayers is the founder of PoliticsHome and a former editor-in-chief of YouGov. Thanks for this, it is a more succinct version of what ive been reading. Lots of these are estimated to end with remain but this straw poll shows how i see it, which is no changein how people vote. As with my Facebook friends, people have not changd their minds, and on here the only swing (1 person) has gone the opposite way to that predicted. So why is it supposed to swing from leave to remain. Of the other options above i interpret those differently:- 3 is 50/50 6 shows a small majority to leave with the majority there to be with the deal (but would probably need a revote on the second choice which should strengthen the deal vote, but seems to leace the vast majority with something they dont want. And then 7 and 8 inconclusive. The only thing that is clear is that we are a divided country and even in most demographics we are equally divided. What a mess. Thanks for your answers and not letting this degenerated into a leave vs remain. The more i know the less i knew about before.
gw_leics772 Posted 13 December 2018 Author Posted 13 December 2018 6 minutes ago, foxy boxing said: I think people have a massive fear of the unknown if we leave. people have no idea whatsoever of how Brexit will work or if it will work out or be a huge mistake. it is a massive fear. at least with the EU you know what you are going to get, you may or may not like it but you are basically in the know, with Brexit you pretty much don't know anything and that is extremely scary!. Or exciting? Po-tay-toe / po-tah-toe
Nick Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 I would have voted Remain but I was in France watching Wales and Ireland in the football and didnt get my postal vote act together.... I saw people on the streets of Paris the next morning sitting in cafes crying at the outcome. I’d vote Remain now if I got a second chance and wasn’t attending a football tournament.
leicsmac Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 I doubt there are too many who have changed their minds - the polarisation is really big. And that, of course, is the most pressing problem right now, not just with this issue or in the UK but with multiple places around the world.
FoxesDeb Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 2 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: I would have voted Remain but I was in France watching Wales and Ireland in the football and didnt get my postal vote act together.... I saw people on the streets of Paris the next morning sitting in cafes crying at the outcome. I’d vote Remain now if I got a second chance and wasn’t attending a football tournament. I'm surprised people in Paris were interested in Wales and Ireland's football tbh
Fox in the North Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 Remain/remain I was open to considering leave if a suitable and sensible plan was proposed and not the omnishambles that it’s been.
rachhere Posted 13 December 2018 Posted 13 December 2018 17 minutes ago, foxy boxing said: I think people have a massive fear of the unknown if we leave. people have no idea whatsoever of how Brexit will work or if it will work out or be a huge mistake. it is a massive fear. at least with the EU you know what you are going to get, you may or may not like it but you are basically in the know, with Brexit you pretty much don't know anything and that is extremely scary!. It is scary. I work with a lot of voluntary sector organisations and they are falling apart due to a lack of income... I can't begin to imagine how they will survive if we experience another recession. I would be interested to know how make people would be swayed to remain if Brussels were to turn round and say 'we have heard the UK people, we recognise your discontent and also that visible in other EU nations, we will commit to listen to you and to reform'.
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