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Facecloth

2019 Deathlist

By Facecloth, in General Chat

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David Guiza

David Guiza

Posted
Posted

Mugabe always struck me as a complex issue. He was undoubtedly a tyrant and dictator, but he did begin as a freedom fighter of sorts. Power corrupts, as they say. He won't be missed by many and rightly so. 

 

It's funny how complex historical figures can be, I've spoken with people from India who hated Gandhi and I never knew that he was such a hypocrite regarding his wife until watching Russell Brand stand-up years ago. Very much two stories to Mother Theresa too, I do find it fascinating to read further into the lives of histories great heroes and villains. 

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ozleicester

ozleicester

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Mugabe always struck me as a complex issue. He was undoubtedly a tyrant and dictator, but he did begin as a freedom fighter of sorts. Power corrupts, as they say. He won't be missed by many and rightly so. 

 

It's funny how complex historical figures can be, I've spoken with people from India who hated Gandhi and I never knew that he was such a hypocrite regarding his wife until watching Russell Brand stand-up years ago. Very much two stories to Mother Theresa too, I do find it fascinating to read further into the lives of histories great heroes and villains. 

Quite agree... it has been most enlightening to read of "great" historical figures who upon closer inspection are anything but. Growing up in a time before the internet and being fed one line only by the media made it far more difficult to have a balanced view.

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David Guiza

David Guiza

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10 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Quite agree... it has been most enlightening to read of "great" historical figures who upon closer inspection are anything but. Growing up in a time before the internet and being fed one line only by the media made it far more difficult to have a balanced view.

Yep! Christopher Columbus being a prime example, effectively he was either a hero or villain depending on where you were brought up. It does make it more frustrating in modern times where people don't read further on a person/subject etc when there are so many resources available. 

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, David Guiza said:

Mugabe always struck me as a complex issue. He was undoubtedly a tyrant and dictator, but he did begin as a freedom fighter of sorts. Power corrupts, as they say. He won't be missed by many and rightly so. 

 

It's funny how complex historical figures can be, I've spoken with people from India who hated Gandhi and I never knew that he was such a hypocrite regarding his wife until watching Russell Brand stand-up years ago. Very much two stories to Mother Theresa too, I do find it fascinating to read further into the lives of histories great heroes and villains. 

 

I spent some time travelling with a pair of white Rhodesian brothers who had fled the country shortly after independence, after their entire family was slaughtered by Mugabe's 'freedom fighters'.

 

Things are never quite as they seem.

Edited by Buce
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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Yep! Christopher Columbus being a prime example, effectively he was either a hero or villain depending on where you were brought up. It does make it more frustrating in modern times where people don't read further on a person/subject etc when there are so many resources available. 

Ties into the human condition, I think - many if not most people tend to desire simplicity to make life easier for themselves and that lends itself to black/white viewings of figures and situations.

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David Guiza

David Guiza

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24 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I spent some time travelling with a pair of white Rhodesian brothers who had fled the country shortly after independence, after their entire family was slaughtered by Mugabe's 'freedom fighters'.

 

Things are never quite they seem.

That's awful, the whole Mugabe and Ian Smith time seems incredibly complicated and just depressing on so many levels. Hopefully Zimbabwe can move forward and away from his shadow.  

 

30 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Ties into the human condition, I think - many if not most people tend to desire simplicity to make life easier for themselves and that lends itself to black/white viewings of figures and situations.

Yes, certainly. No patience or even desire to discover in many people, the same happens when a notable person is arrested/caught up in allegations. They are already hanged, drawn and quartered or absolved from all responsibility. No middle ground.   

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urban.spaceman

urban.spaceman

Posted
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I went to Zimbabwe in 1998 with my family while on a driving holiday of Southern Africa. Zambia was a no-go at the time - every tourist going to Victoria Falls avoided Livingstone and went to Victoria Falls town on the Zim side. I remember it being a relatively prosperous nation compared to Botswana (who at the time had about only 80km of paved roads). It was 30 Zim Dollars to the Pound. Then Mugabe went ****ing nuts and started kicking out white farmers among other lunacy. I went back to Vic Falls in 2006 with Uni - we had to stay in Livingstone in Zambia this time because it was just chaos in Zimbabwe. It was 1,000,000 Zim Dollars to the Pound. I crossed the border to go to the Zim side of the falls for the day - a burger at Wimpy's cost Z$4,000,000. People told me it was literally cheaper to wipe your arse with the money than it was to buy toilet roll.

 

3 years later and I was back in Zambia, in the Vic Falls National Park enclosure. A guy had broken through the fence and started trying to sell me notes as a souvenir (you learn very quickly in Zambia how to say 'no' to the hawkers effectively) - he was offering me a this:

 

zimbabwe-banknotes-100-trillion-dollars-

 

He said "give me 80 US dollars"

I said "I only have $4"

He said "done".

 

I still have it today.

 

In short, Mugabe was a liberator and a tyrant. Good ****ing riddance.

 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

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21 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

56349e70-3503-4129-a5ea-4d8d2935a6d0.jpeg?width=780&height=520&rect=2931x1954&offset=69x0

 

:dunno: Unsure of the point here, the current US administration has done pretty well on North Korea and NASA (and I've said as such), it's just a shame about practically everything else.

 

Actually, I take that back - I am entirely sure of the point here and it's not accurate as per above so kindly put the strawman away before someone tosses a match.

 

15 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

 

Yes, certainly. No patience or even desire to discover in many people, the same happens when a notable person is arrested/caught up in allegations. They are already hanged, drawn and quartered or absolved from all responsibility. No middle ground.   

Right - I'm just not sure how that changes, or even if it is possible on any large scale.

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Nalis

Nalis

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2 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Chester Williams, 49, the only black player in South Africa's 1995 Rugby World Cup winning team.

Thats mental, just googled it and he was tweeting as normal 9/ 10 hours ago it seems. 

 

Too young to go at that age.

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surrifox

surrifox

Posted
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10 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

One of the last true dictators alive until recently, one of the most vile people on the planet back in the days; surely a product of the colonization era, then running a nationalist project that went pretty much completely wrong.

Mass starvation, poverty, chasing white farmers out of the country (and with it decades of knowledge of agriculture in the area), crimes against humanity, mass murder of ethnic minorities, ruining the country's economy.

 

"The path to evil is paved with good intentions". Robert Mugabe in a nutshell.

 

May Zimbabwe rebound and finally turn into the country it deserves to be.

Amen to that but I can’t see much changing with the current a ‘hole running the place 

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

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Shocking news, this: Barrie Masters (63), long-time vocalist of Eddie & the Hot Rods, died suddenly: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/barrie-masters-death-eddie-the-hot-rods-cause-age-a9129256.html 

 

Saw them live several times over recent years, including only about a year ago at The Musician. They said then they were stopping touring.

 

Great live band, though they never got close to matching "Do anything you wanna do". I was 15 when that came out and it probably had a bigger impact on me than any other song ever....and I've heard others say the same. 

 

Here's Barrie & the lads in live action in 2004.....

 

 

 

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Izzy

Izzy

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1 hour ago, jonthefox said:

Ginger Baker. Drummer for Cream. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-49827436

My old man will be gutted, he was a huge Cream fan.

 

There's an old DVD of their farewell concert at the Royal Albert Hall and you can see my Dad as a 20 year old rocking away with his long hair on the third row :D

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